Ray's Views On Auto-immune Diseases ?

burtlancast

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I've listened some time ago about Ray's views on auto-immune diseases as being a normal reaction to another stress factor.

Could anyone remind me what he said ?

A relative of mine is struck with myasthenia gravis, an incurable auto-immune disorder, caused by antibodies that block acetylcholine receptors , causing mucle weakness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myasthenia_gravis.
 

aguilaroja

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burtlancast said:
A relative of mine is struck with myasthenia gravis, an incurable auto-immune disorder, caused by antibodies that block acetylcholine receptors , causing mucle weakness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myasthenia_gravis.

I don't recall interviews and articles specifically referring to myasthenia gravis. Dr. Peat has mentioned metabolism and immunity in many contexts, for instance:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/im ... ency.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ms.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/mu ... osis.shtml

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/leakiness.shtml

For other readers of this thread, as the wiki reference points out:

"MG is more common in families with other autoimmune diseases. A familial predisposition found in 5% of the cases is associated with certain genetic variations, such as an increased frequency of HLA-B8 and DR3. People with MG suffer from coexisting autoimmune diseases at a higher frequency than members of the general population. Of particular mention is coexisting thyroid disease, where episodes of hypothyroidism may precipitate a severe exacerbation."
 

Wilfrid

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I think that you may want to check this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cGv ... asic?pli=1

http://www.lechin.com/treat.htm#t3



From the first link above, here is the basic protocol Dr. Lechín used:

"...Restoration of central and peripheral NA (alpha-adrenergic) activity:

a) Aminoacid precursors (L-phenylalanine, L-tyrosine), 50 mg before breakfast.
b) Inhibitor of NA re-uptake (desipramine), 25 mg before breakfast.
c) NA-releasing agent + suppressor of serotonergic activity (buspirone) l0-20 mg at 10 am + beta-adrenergic blocking agent (propranolol 10-20 mg).
d) Alpha-1 agonists: adrafinil (150-300 mg) or modafinil (100-200 mg) at 10 a.m.

Because this noradrenergic (alpha-adrenergic) activation usually induces insomnia, the treatment was not administered in afternoon hours. When this side effect was observed,ma small dose of 5-hydroxytryptophan (25 mg) was administered before supper, in order to counterbalance excessive hyper-noradrenergic induced activity. Five-hydroxytryptophan, a serotonin precursor, can be added to a small dose (15 mg) of mirtazapine (Remeron), administered before bed. This drug stimulates the release from central neuronal circuits of NA and 5HT, neurotransmitters both needed to facilitate a normal slow wave sleep (SWS). All benzodiazepines and/or gaba-mimetic drugs were banned because they provoke strong suppression of noradrenaline + dopamine (DA) + serotonin release (Lechin, van der Dijs et al., 1994)....

.....Free serotonin in plasma should also play some important role in triggering myasthenic crisis since we were able to accelerate the recovery of several MG patients affected by this severe complication by administering tianeptine to them. This finding is consistent with the bronchial constriction effect exerted by f-5HT in asthmatic patients who were also dramatically improved by this serotonin-enhancing uptaker drug (Lechin, van der Dijs et al., 1996b, 1998b, 1998c)....


....All MG patients showed a highly significant and sustained reduction of symptoms during acute ( 6 days) and late (weeks and months) periods after starting the neuropharmacological therapy. Patients registered no relapses, no MG crises, nor new plasmapheresis after initiation of our treatment. Immunosuppressant drugs were totally eliminated. Suppression of steroids was acomplished progressively. Mestinon was also progressively omitted attaining until reaching complete or highly significant reduction. The total suppression of Mestinon was effected in all non-thymectomized patients and in three thymectomized cases. In the other thymectomized patients, Mestinon was reduced to a minimum...."



As you may see some substances used in his protocol are probably not Peat-approved ( but some like tianeptine are.), still he's got incredible results with it.
Dr Lechín began his research when he cured himself of the MG.
He wrote a fantastic (and expensive....but you can find it, for free, on library genesis) book on the protocol he used in his clinical practice. Some of his work, inluding his fabulous job on asthma and its treatment, are validated by peer-reviewed and follow-up studies.
I know that your topic was about Ray's views on auto-immune diseases and I didn't want to highjack your post but I thought that this info could be very important for your relative.
Hope that help.
 
J

j.

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I would avoid plastic if you can. If you drink coca cola from plastic bottles for example, see if you can get it from glass bottles. I would also use 5,000 IU of vitamin A per day, the RDA.
 
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Ray Peat doesn't buy the "modern" view of the immune system, he thinks it acts primarily by sensing and cleaning up a site of damage. So for a disease like that to occur there must be an underlying stressor acting for a long period of time.
 
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burtlancast

burtlancast

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aguilaroja said:
Of particular mention is coexisting thyroid disease, where episodes of hypothyroidism may precipitate a severe exacerbation."

That's very interesting.
I've found a Gerson therapy testimonial for Myasthenia Gravis at
http://naturalhealingretreats.com/dr-ma ... timonials/
In November 1992, John had suddenly began to see double. “The doctors suspected that the lung cancer had spread to my brain,” he said, “but all tests were negative. The problem went away … until the following November, when the double vision recurred. My mother and favourite uncle had both suffered from myasthenia gravis, which is what I was diagnosed with.”

The condition cleared up with medication, but again returned the following November. “After appearing for three consecutive years only in November,” Mr. Peters told us, “I asked God what this meant. But it turned out that on Halloween, I would eat leftover Halloween candy. I have not eaten candy since November 1995. And though I had been told that I was permanently disabled and would never recover, I have had no sign of myasthenia gravis since then.

So, 3 years in a row, the condition returns only in november and onwards; surely, there's a relation with hormonal winter sickness- oestrogen dominance Ray has experienced himself.

I've found another good Gerson testimonial success at http://doctordonato.com/a-72-yo-male-wa ... mber-2012/, but it seems not many people used Gerson for this condition.
 

HDD

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Since I have an "incurable" illness, these quotes came to mind.

"Popular therapies are illogical, and are likely to cause disease progression." -RP on MS

I don't know what MG treatment involves but if the disease is said to be incurable the treatment is obviously not working.

"I think medicine is accustomed to using big words for diagnoses in order to be able to prescribe big pills without being questioned. If we stop thinking about a condition in terms of diagnostic names (like cancer, MS, epilepsy) and look for symptoms instead, for what is wrong -- we get closer to the thought that everything can be healed. You take on the problems one by one. Usually they are connected so that when you fix one, you fix another, too. Telling patients they have a disease which has killed many people and cannot be healed is like chaining them with their backs to the wall. They will feel helpless, at the mercy of their doctors -- and serotonin will rise and make every condition worse." - Rayser (forum member)

In pregnancy[edit]
In the long term, pregnancy does not affect myasthenia gravis. The mothers themselves suffer from exacerbated myasthenia in a third of cases, and in those for whom it does worsen, it usually occurs in the first trimester of pregnancy. Signs and symptoms in pregnant mothers tend to improve during the second and third trimesters. Complete remission can occur in some mothers.[9] Immunosuppressive therapy should be maintained throughout pregnancy, as this reduces the chance of neonatal muscle weakness, as well as controls the mother's myasthenia.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myasthenia_gravis

Progesterone therapy might be beneficial since some have complete remission during pregnancy.
 

Blossom

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Hagandazine's post reminded me of this Ray Peat quote from his recent newsletter:
The present medical culture supports mental processes analogous to learned helplessness.
 
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burtlancast

burtlancast

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Blossom said:
Hagandazine's post reminded me of this Ray Peat quote from his recent newsletter:
The present medical culture supports mental processes analogous to learned helplessness.

Ray hitting the bull's eye, as usual.

I've found some of his quotes about medical culture to be out of this world. :idea:
 
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burtlancast

burtlancast

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Wilfrid said:
Dr Lechín began his research when he cured himself of the MG.
He wrote a fantastic (and expensive....but you can find it, for free, on library genesis) book on the protocol he used in his clinical practice. Some of his work, inluding his fabulous job on asthma and its treatment, are validated by peer-reviewed and follow-up studies.

That's an awesome find here, Wilfrid.
This seems completely legit.
I will read the book ( found it ;) ) and see the positives.

I hope strenghtening of the thyroid by the Ray Peat protocol brings good results; if not, i might propose the Gerson way, but if it's too hard to follow, this third option is certainly welcomed.

Beats the "nothing to be done" death sentence-like of those "in the known". :roll:
 
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burtlancast

burtlancast

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This is a great insight by Walter Last on the role of Vit E in Myasthenia Gravis:

Vitamin E is important to protect cell membranes from damage through oxidation and peroxidation, while a deficiency causes changes in muscle protein with swelling and fragmentation of individual muscle fibres, leading to muscle weakness, dystrophy and paralysis. It is directly involved with the energy metabolism of muscles, deficiency causes increased amounts of muscle protein to break down and be expelled with the urine as it happens in myasthenia gravis.

The importance of vitamin E in myasthenia gravis can be seen in a case report were the initial use of other vitamins improved the condition somewhat, but only after the addition of vitamin E did all symptoms of the disease disappear.

It confirms what the Shute brothers wrote about Vit E increasing the strenght of muscle contractions.
If Vit E is inactivated by an excess of oestrogen, it would lead to muscle breakdown, necessitating removal of the debris by the immunitary system, as Ray wrote:

*Antibodies are involved in removing the debris of cells that have disintegrated. Intense cellular damage causes many "autoantibodies" to be produced. People with AIDS have a high incidence of "autoimmunity."

According to Wikipedia,
Signs of vitamin E deficiency include Neuromuscular problems - such as spinocerebellar ataxia and myopathies..

Myopathies are defined by a muscular disease in which the muscle fibers do not function for any one of many reasons, resulting in muscular weakness. "Myopathy" simply means muscle disease (myo- Greek μυο "muscle" + pathos -pathy Greek "suffering").
This meaning implies that the primary defect is within the muscle, as opposed to the nerves.

Vitamin E deficiency in humans results in ataxia (poor muscle coordination with shaky movements), decreased sensation to vibration, lack of reflexes, and paralysis of eye muscles. One particularly severe symptom of vitamin E deficiency is the inability to walk.
 

Parsifal

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burtlancast said:
Vitamin E deficiency in humans results in ataxia (poor muscle coordination with shaky movements), decreased sensation to vibration, lack of reflexes, and paralysis of eye muscles. One particularly severe symptom of vitamin E deficiency is the inability to walk.

Do you believe that sleep paralysis, even if a momentary paralysis, could be a sign of vitamin E defficiency?
 

tara

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What's Ray Peat's view on autoinflammatory diseases?
Did you read all of this thread? It's got lots of good relevant content and links. I wouldn't get too attached to the specific disease labels.
 

moss

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A relative of mine is struck with myasthenia gravis, an incurable auto-immune disorder, caused by antibodies that block acetylcholine receptors , causing mucle weakness.
Hi Burt @burtlancast
A friend has just been diagnosed with Myasthenia gravis and I wondered how your relative is faring 4/5 years down the track?
Was there anything that helped them in particular? I'd be grateful for any information, thanks.
 

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