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Ray Peat’s Thoughts on the Appropriate Amount of Fat in a Diet

ursidae

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I think I’m starting to understand why I see conflicting quotes. Ray Peat has no problem with a high saturated fat, high carb diet. Low fat recommendations are made as part of a hypo caloric diet regiment for the overweight or sedentary, most likely due to the fact that fat is very packed with calories for its volume. Starch is calorically dense in a similar way though not to such an extent, however starch is not approved. Approved carb sources are high water content, high volume foods such as fruit and milk.
 

76er

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If I go over 30% calories from fat I'll start gaining weight.

I can do ~3,250 total calories and if I keep the fat under 30% of the total, I'll slowly lose weight.

I suspect I can even does the total calories higher as long as fat is kept at bay.

If my fat goes above ~30% for a consistent period I'll gain.

I try to get in 2K calories of nutrient dense (usually pretty high fat) calories before noon.

I also do resistance exercise six days out of the week for about 30 minutes per day and sometimes
have a decent amount of yard work.
 
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Here is from the RPF e-mail exchange. These are some pretty fatty foods.


"Eggs and orange juice, milk and oysters, and a raw carrot. For variety, smoked oysters, crab, cod fried in butter, ox-tail soup, parmigiano reggiano, sapotas, lychees, liver. Completely avoiding unsaturated fats, such as canola and mayonnaise, and minimizing beans, cereals, and vegetables."

"Normally, I usually have around 400 grams of carbohydrate. I have about 3 quarts of milk, varying amounts of orange juice (probably over a quart on average), eggs, and about 200 grams of meat or fish, with other things such as coca cola, cheese, ice cream, cheese cakes, some coconut oil and butter, occasional tropical fruits."

"I occasionally use some powdered gelatin for things like making marshmallows, but usually I get my gelatin from soup, such as ox-tails. lamb shanks, or chicken backs and wings."

I Like that raypeat ate cheese
 

GreekDemiGod

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If I go over 30% calories from fat I'll start gaining weight.

I can do ~3,250 total calories and if I keep the fat under 30% of the total, I'll slowly lose weight.

I suspect I can even does the total calories higher as long as fat is kept at bay.

If my fat goes above ~30% for a consistent period I'll gain.

I try to get in 2K calories of nutrient dense (usually pretty high fat) calories before noon.

I also do resistance exercise six days out of the week for about 30 minutes per day and sometimes
have a decent amount of yard work.
I have the same experience.
I think a fat intake between 20% to 35% is a safe long-term strategy for general health, weight maintenance, hormonal health and optimal Testosterone production in men, as long as you don't go crazy on the calories.
And when needing to diet and get leaner, restrict fat intake in the range of 10-20% of calories. Once you've accomplished your goal of getting leaner, raise fat intake back to 20-35% level.
I also suspect that higher than 35% fat intake, even from SFA, does not have positive benefits and can be detrimental to body composition and heart disease prevention. A hyper-caloric, hyper SFA diet can't be that good.
 

frannybananny

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Here is from the RPF e-mail exchange. These are some pretty fatty foods.


"Eggs and orange juice, milk and oysters, and a raw carrot. For variety, smoked oysters, crab, cod fried in butter, ox-tail soup, parmigiano reggiano, sapotas, lychees, liver. Completely avoiding unsaturated fats, such as canola and mayonnaise, and minimizing beans, cereals, and vegetables."

"Normally, I usually have around 400 grams of carbohydrate. I have about 3 quarts of milk, varying amounts of orange juice (probably over a quart on average), eggs, and about 200 grams of meat or fish, with other things such as coca cola, cheese, ice cream, cheese cakes, some coconut oil and butter, occasional tropical fruits."

"I occasionally use some powdered gelatin for things like making marshmallows, but usually I get my gelatin from soup, such as ox-tails. lamb shanks, or chicken backs and wings."
Geez, where does he get his vitamins like B's and A, unless the A is added to milk...not from one carrot...? I know he doesn't like to take supplements but this diet seems like he is missing a lot of vitamins.
 
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Geez, where does he get his vitamins like B's and A, unless the A is added to milk...not from one carrot...? I know he doesn't like to take supplements but this diet seems like he is missing a lot of vitamins.
He doesn't want vitamin A from beta carotene, he wants A from retinol in beef liver.
 

mamakitty

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I read this in an e-mail exchange with Ray Peat the other day....

"Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%." -Ray Peat
Does this mean someone with high cholesterol should avoid sugar and sweet fruits, and have starchy vegetables instead to bring the cholesterol down?
 

Shackles

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Does this mean someone with high cholesterol should avoid sugar and sweet fruits, and have starchy vegetables instead to bring the cholesterol down?
Cholesterol is good but some having high cholesterol either means infection or bad thyroid (lack of conversion).
LDL and HDL are not bad either. They are associated with health problems when they are elevated but due to a protective mechanism. High HDL could be a good marker to know that something is wrong which makes it rise so high. Usually cholesterols best action is guarding the cytoplasm from endotoxins or germ.
 

mamakitty

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I have the same experience.
I think a fat intake between 20% to 35% is a safe long-term strategy for general health, weight maintenance, hormonal health and optimal Testosterone production in men, as long as you don't go crazy on the calories.
And when needing to diet and get leaner, restrict fat intake in the range of 10-20% of calories. Once you've accomplished your goal of getting leaner, raise fat intake back to 20-35% level.
I also suspect that higher than 35% fat intake, even from SFA, does not have positive benefits and can be detrimental to body composition and heart disease prevention. A hyper-caloric, hyper SFA diet can't be that good.
What about women?
 

mamakitty

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Cholesterol is good but some having high cholesterol either means infection or bad thyroid (lack of conversion).
LDL and HDL are not bad either. They are associated with health problems when they are elevated but due to a protective mechanism. High HDL could be a good marker to know that something is wrong which makes it rise so high. Usually cholesterols best action is guarding the cytoplasm from endotoxins or germ.
Yeah, my thyroid is obviously functioning suboptimally, and I probably have low grade infection. My ldl is very high and I don’t want to take statins. So, reading the first email rinse posted, it seems sugar ups one’s cholesterol, so it can be extrapolated that avoiding sugar can lower it or at least not exacerbate it?
 

mamakitty

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Nice find! I eat about 50% of cals from fat and this makes me feel much more okay about it lol. Cheese, butter, dark chocolate, mmm
I reckon you don’t have to lose any weight. Or maybe you are not eating a hypercaloric diet despite consuming 50% fats
 

mamakitty

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I don't know exactly the optimal BF levels in women, I know they're higher, but the same principles should remain.
I’m trying to lose weight rather quickly right now, but I don’t want to tank my fertility. Should I aim for 20% fat in my diet?
 

mamakitty

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Probably mostly coconut oil and fats you can't avoid in lowfat milk, cheese, chicken wings and beef. I saw something recently where he said he only eats about 1600 calories. I think he use to eat a lot more. I will look around and see what else I can find.
1600 calories are quite low. He recommends this for sedentary people, I suppose it’s even lower for women. And that’s maintenance! So, if I, an almost obese woman wants to lose weight, I should be eating a 1000-1200 calories? Isn’t that what mainstream dieticians recommend and it barely works?!
That’s going to be very hard and make me feel sick day to day. Not to mention how it will probably tank my fertility.
I’m very confused.
 

Stilgar

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I think a lot of his caloric recommendations assume that thyroid is being adequately replaced as needed - his caloric needs only being quite low because of the efficiency of good thyroid hormone status on glucose metabolism. Work on the thyroid first is his usual advice and then eat to appetite, and that will guide your caloric needs appropriately. If someone needs more then that is fine - either they are somewhat inefficient in using glucose, eat the wrong types of foods that swings blood sugar, or are quite active so needing more.
 

Nomane Euger

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1600 calories are quite low. He recommends this for sedentary people, I suppose it’s even lower for women. And that’s maintenance! So, if I, an almost obese woman wants to lose weight, I should be eating a 1000-1200 calories? Isn’t that what mainstream dieticians recommend and it barely works?!
That’s going to be very hard and make me feel sick day to day. Not to mention how it will probably tank my fertility.
I’m very confused.
I believe ray saidthat he was eating 2600 calories around,400 grammes of carbs,150 around proteins and the rest some fat,he said before he fixed his thyroid he ate a lot more,since he ftook thyroid his body probably became more efficient as using energy so he needed less,that’s what I remember
 

mamakitty

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I believe ray saidthat he was eating 2600 calories around,400 grammes of carbs,150 around proteins and the rest some fat,he said before he fixed his thyroid he ate a lot more,since he ftook thyroid his body probably became more efficient as using energy so he needed less,that’s what I remember
Interesting! That makes sense however, one of the email exchanges posted above show him saying for sedentary people 1600-1700 calories are good!!
And I gather it would be a bit lower for women.
I’m not active and I need to lose weight, so if I do the maths based on the above, it would imply I got to eat 1200 calories if not 1,000!
Now, I have tried doing 1200 and I was just not functioning so I upped it to 1300, i was still not feeling well. Then at 15 or 1600 I was feeling slightly better but not energetic at all. And the weight loss was still at a turtle speed!
 
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1600 calories are quite low. He recommends this for sedentary people, I suppose it’s even lower for women. And that’s maintenance! So, if I, an almost obese woman wants to lose weight, I should be eating a 1000-1200 calories? Isn’t that what mainstream dieticians recommend and it barely works?!
That’s going to be very hard and make me feel sick day to day. Not to mention how it will probably tank my fertility.
I’m very confused.

When metabolism and one is active more calories is good. When you sedentaery or are wanting to lose weight RP says to stop eating (in this video) otherwise unburned calories gets stored as fat.


View: https://youtu.be/96AFY50-J4A
 

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