Ray Peat on the Coronavirus, Immunity, & Vaccines
Date Recorded: 2020-03-18
John Barkhausen: What do you think is going on right now (about COVID-19)?
Ray Peat: First of all, I am not sure any special is going around, in the virus, and infection world, it’s definitely happening in the media and politics. Mexico isn’t getting excited and they have, I think, 16 mild cases. CDC for years has been reporting the annual respiratory or flu like death rate has being in the tens of thousands of deaths per year in USA, so hundred or two hundred, the average number of deaths from respiratory disease being say 40000 or 30000. If you look at historical percentage of those respiratory diseases, about 10 to 15 percent are historically a coronavirus infections and the others are things as simple as rhinovirus, or respiratory season virus, things that range from mild sniffles up to serious pneumonia, but historically, about 10 percent are corona type virus, so if 30000 or 40000 people are expected to die from flu like respiratory disease we will expect to have 3000 or 4000 deaths per year from a coronavirus respiratory infection, so I don’t see any evidence at all that anything is happening on a real biological level.
JB: You are saying that in a giving year we should see 3000 to 4000 deaths from coronavirus?
RP: Yes, that could still happen, we can get up to the average mortality associated with corona viruses, but we are not approaching that by long way so far, so lower than average year as far the actual figures that exist indicate, so just looking at the actual numbers it looks like we are slightly deficient in cases and deaths of respiratory problems associated with that virus.
JB: Have you checked the Chinese or Asian data, is the corona death up from average?
RP: They haven’t talk about the average for corona, they weren’t gathering that data, but they say, this is just slightly more deadly than a typical influenza virus or the other things causing respiratory disease, so it is somewhat according to their figures just slightly more deadly, but the problem is Italy has always as twice as many respiratory disease or flu-like death per year per capital as USA, so it isn’t unusual for them to be especially hard hit, but what make the number go up is that they have been primarily testing sick people in hospitals and its same with cancer diagnosis, if you go all out to look for cancer in population of middle age and old age and cancer range you will find 100 percent cancers if you really go into diagnosis, so the more you diagnose the more you can find, people die at the same rate unless you treat them, if you increase your treatment for cancer as you increase the diagnosis, the treatment is good in kill more and more, but you can make your treatments look better by diagnosing more and more cases which are harmless, same with the flu, or the coronavirus, if you test everyone in population, you will get all this people with very mild reactions, so it look like… In South Korea for example, 0.6 percent, because they tested more people, so the dying people are become a smaller percentage when you test it one more representative cross-section of the population.
JB: So, maybe it’s just an accident, because they are looking for diseases, and most of them are vulnerable, so they test the sick people first.
RP: YES, so that if restricted to the people in hospital on respiratory, then you will find that most of them have serious viruses probably, multiple respiratory viruses.
When you very sick, various viruses that have been carrying harmlessly, will pop to the surface and get measured.
JB: What`s the difference between virus and bacteria, and particular about the coronavirus?
RP: Almost all bacteria are free-living in a sense that can generally live outside the cells, if you feed them right stuff and giving them the right temperature and other conditions. They have the apparatus to reproduce their own genetic material, and the virus depends on entering a cell either bacterium or higher organisms cell, and taking advantage of their machinery like ribosomes that can produce proteins for nucleic acid, so this viruses putting their bad? of nucleic acid, once that can get into the cell and that is process on ours? ribosomes endoplasmic reticulum and proteins are added to the replicated nucleic acid and then is excreted as a finish particle by our ordinary cell excretory system, secreting system.
JB: So, in a healthy person if you encounter a virus, even if it’s a new virus, do you think we are able to conquer that, or at least isolated so it’s doesn’t do any harm?
RP: Yes, for example on the surface of respiratory in our lungs and the tubes leading to air sacs... the air sacs are in line with epithelial cells that can secrete their cells around the air sacs that secrete mucus that cover the epithelial cell and to reduce the surface tension so the air sacs will stay open. There is a protein called surfactant protein that has an oil loving liquid filling fraction so it acts like a soap, but the water loving part of the protein dissolves in this mucus layer on the cell lining the air sacs, and the oily surface reduces the surface tension so the air sacs can stay open but without extreme tension, and that surfactant protein contains groups that will collect the sugar like surfaces of the viral proteins or other any pathogen possibility that hits that surfactant protein will get gluten? down by this binding particles, so it’s our first layer of defense, then in our around of epithelium layer we have reactive parts of the immune system, the angiotensin converting enzyme is one of the early parts of our immune system that sets up an inflammatory reaction that will set in action a whole chain of events, if the pathogen gets trough and is actually a treat, then you activate this proteolytic protein that create angiotensin witch is like a transmitter of a panic reaction to the organism, and it happens this coronavirus is able to bind to one of this angiotensin converting enzymes, there is one with is only pro-inflammatory and the other one that backs that up, which undoes, inhibits the inflammatory damage done by the first angiotensin producing enzyme, this is called ACE2, and ACE2 happens to be attacked by this particular virus witch binds to that enzyme, and that’s receptor its vulnerable point of organism as far this fire is concern, and binding to that ACE2 means that it leaves the ACE1 which produces angiotensin, it leaves that free to act, and ACE2 is capable in inactivating angiotensin breaking down to the first seven amino acids, they call it angiotensin 1-7, and this is a defensive anti-inflammatory peptide, so if your ACE2 is knocked out, angiotensin has a free range to cause damage, so the virus increases the inflammatory reaction by sticking to the defensive enzyme, and that enzyme combined with the virus, than acts to enter the cell by way of the angiotensin receptor which is called the AT1, that are two known receptors by which angiotensin can do damage. Angiotensin 1 is strictly an inflammation producing system, the angiotensin 2 produces somewhat defensive reactions, but it happens that the virus enzyme combination entering the cell by way of angiotensin receptor 1, AT1, and that turns on a whole range of destructive processes, nitric oxide, serotonin for example. And, so, just looking at the effects, its obvious you can defend by anything that defends you against nitric oxide and serotonin, so anti-inflammatory things are the known treatment for this kind of virus that Chinese for years have been using, cinanserin which is a serotonin blocker for other treatments, and they find that is helpful for people with the established respiratory corona infection, and losartan witch is high blood pressure drug is the most well-known blocker of angiotensin 1 receptor.. losartan is cheap and widely available.
Basically the virus just activates an inflammatory process that many other things activate, so things that would primarily activate nitric oxide production or serotonin production, or histamine, or prostaglandin production, any of this tend to end up in the same condition, so, I think without knowing more about the nature of infection, I think people who are taking aspirin for example it has wide range of antiviral properties it's already known to reduce infection from a standard influenza virus, hepatitis C virus, rhinovirus, African well-known viruses, are blocked by common aspirin. There was a study on HIV, when they saw beneficial effects from aspirin. Vitamin D, one of its effects, like progesterone and aspirin, all are known protective pro immune, but an anti-inflammatory things, lower the expression of angiotensin receptor 1, so they predispose us to be less inflammable.
JB: So, when it enters the lungs, your cells put out kind of lipid, or some kind?
RP: Well, naturally, once we are born and start breathing, we depend on the production of surfactant protein, so it’s everywhere normally, and our intestine has similar layers of defenses right about surface mucus will be a barrier against infection, and then surface layers of cells and so on, and this viruses, the coronavirus don’t just specialize on the lungs, they can infect the mucus membrane in the nose and the intestine, so some people been saying that runny noses aren’t connected as precursor of the lung infection, but, Russian virologists sad, looking at tens of thousands of patients, he saw that runny nose was a typical precursor to the rest of the lung and infection symptoms, and the intestine is just prone to infection as the lungs.
JB: Its possible to eat the virus and could attack the intestine, it’s what you say?
RP: Yes, if you get in your mouth and swallow it, will infect those as well.
JB: Even if your stomach acid will think we`ll take care of it?
RP: Not necessarily, stomach acid doesn’t break down the nucleic acid.
JB: …in the healthy person, if the mucus is working correctly, is able to kill the virus?
RP: The surface cells including the mucus have proteins analogues to the surfactant in the lung, proteins that collect the surface groups of pathogens and bind them together as like putting flypaper on.
The hydrophobic surface its itself tends to disorganize some of the invaders.
JB: For instance, they tell us to wash our hands all the time, how a soap kills a virus?
RP: Taking the proteins, dissolving, making relatively insoluble things soluble, because the soap has hydrophobic fraction that sticks to hydrophobic insoluble parts of an organism and dissembles inside out.
JB: Its COVID-19 a little better break in our system, then a normal cold which is also a corona virus. I heard cold is also a coronavirus, it’s that true?
RP: No, cold can be caused by any of this... if your immune system is good, like one study found that almost half of all of the respiratory infections, they couldn’t identify a particular cause, but the rhinovirus was the biggest, about 30 percent, that’s the most common cold virus that they identify, but are lots of unknown things that cause those symptoms, and then then coronavirus is in a range of somewhere between 5 and 15 percent of those respiratory infections.
JB: Do you think the reaction of the government at this point is over the top?
RP: Unless there was a purpose to create international chaos for example to try to finish off Iran by cutting of their medical supplies.
JB: That’s write, the top administration is intensifying sanctions at this time.
RP: Yes, you would suppose that would get in their plans, and if it's not really a threat, otherwise it becomes a threat to do all of this and say things, for example I just heard that all of my favorites brand of milk have been discontinued for the duration of the panic.
JB: Really? Why is that?
RP: I don’t know
JB: They are claiming as a carrier?
RP: No, but I notice that over last several weeks, the certain brands that I normally get, they reduce to one little row in the supermarket, and wont replenishing that, and today they said they will be discontinuing that
JB: Whoa, that’s annoying
JB: I am sort of puzzled by their reaction, and everybody around here is, you know, trying to cope with it
RP: The media, including the big media like Nature International Science magazine, they are getting kind of excited in denying that it was an intentionally created virus which was leaked either accidentally or intentionally, they just, I think, yesterday published a paper explaining technically way will be impossible for them to done it, but the fact the rushing so fast to deny that it could have been leaked accidentally out of lab, but when you look at the fact the normally they say that it takes over a year to produce a vaccine to a new respiratory infection, but already now, within weeks saying that they have a vaccine ready to test, the purpose of CDC patenting the coronavirus 17 years ago was delivery to create pathogens experimentally to unable them to anticipate a pathogen so they could create to have a vaccine ready, so their intention was to have a vaccine ready by creating a pathogen, but now they saying they couldn’t possible of creating this but they do happen to have a vaccine almost ready to used, by their own declaration, it sounds very suspicious.
JB: I feel like there is tremendous conflict of interest in CDC..
RP: Yes, same with WHO, on January 29th sad it’s not a pandemic and then, next days, sad it is a pandemic. I think something happened to him politically.
JB: I see. A pandemic is supposed to reach a much higher bar as my understanding then we reach at this point.
RP: Well, as I said, I don’t see any evidence, or anything different from last year or 10 years ago.
JB: Maybe you can explain the conflict of interest of WHO, I am not familiar with that.
RP: People working there who have close connections to the vaccine industry, I think Robert Kennedy Jr. website has information about the conflicts of interest.
JB: And CDC, you mention they have a pattern of coronavirus, why would they patent that?
RP: Well, so they can license a vaccine, I suppose.
JB: That gives them the sell right to license a vaccine to treat that…. And Trump assistant… he was saying that it will be a least a year and half to put out a vaccine, you thing is out of the loop?
RP: No, that’s what have been saying, virologists in general is saying it takes time to develop. And, to do actual testing I think that’s a very optimistic idea because if it really had to test it, it will take a generation… The way they test it, the safety of it for example, is in a control group to use the same adjuvants, aluminum adjuvant for example, which is the most dangerous component, so they are using fraudulent safety test, you can't have a test without a controlled group.
JB: Explain what an adjuvant is?
RP: It creates derangement, in this case in the muscle were is injected, and anything you inject in the muscle is going to damage it, start an autoimmune correcting process, but they found that just pathogens particles were enough to really tear up the tissue to produce a violent immune reaction, so they found that aluminum oxide particles creating a terrific immunological storm that would sometimes create a little tumor, or abscess at the site with such an intense damage, but that extreme inflammation at the point of injection activates a better more systemic immune reaction, it turns your whole body into inflammatory system, so people very often have a fever for a couple of days after getting a shot.
JB: So that’s way when some people when are getting a flu shot, they feel that they have a mild flu.
RP: Yes, it’s the same thing, systemic inflammatory reaction which is the whole purpose of the adjuvant, it would not be an adjuvant if it didn’t damage your whole inflammatory system.
JB: So, you are saying that when they do the testing, they don’t have a control group that doesn’t receive the adjuvant?
RP: Yes, in many of the studies, that wasn’t universal situation, but several of the very important studies were completely fraudulent by not having a controlled group
JB: That’s consider standard in double-blind testing, isn’t it?
JB: They keep coming back with Spanish flu, I think it was 1918, they took it a tremendous toll in lives I think over a year, it was blamed on Spain, like Trump is blaming on China, but it turn out, it actually came from US army base and I just red recently that so-called flu that started in the army base for this for soldiers who just been drafted and then were shift over Europe, that may have been caused by a vaccine that the Rockefeller center was testing on those soldiers who were basically draftees. Have you heard anything about that?
RP: I haven’t heard any more than what you sad, but do you know about the movie Vaxxed, there is information in that about the Gulf War syndrome and the anthrax vaccine. The people were getting the Gulf War syndrome without leaving the US, following the anthrax vaccination.
JB: And also, the nurses who was giving them felt terrible about administrating them. I just gone read a little thing about this article I found.. it's looking at research was done about the Spanish flu, and this scientist who looked into it, look back at the autopsy and found that all people who diet of flu supposedly tested positive for bacterium pneumonia, so for some reason they all got bacteria pneumonia, and that’s what this person believes killed them. That’s different from the flu?
RP: oh, defiantly yes, but the CDC counts pretty much, that will fall into unknown category of severe respiratory syndromes, so they, to get their annual 40000 deaths that they can scare people, saying that’s flu, get your flu shot, it obviously, isn’t the flu, its pneumonia from partly unknown causes and partly from a variety of viruses that have nothing to do with the flu shot.
JB: And virulence from that situation is from worse environment, even packed into barracks, or ships to Europe, or trenches.
RP: Yes, the conditions was from first world war, were not helpful in general, much of the world was influence by the war conditions, so stress itself it’s a cause an epidemic, shortage of food will increase the incidence of infectious diseases.
JB: es, that’s a really good point, so right now if it’s true that this is a pandemic, its seems to me that people all around the world are under tremendous amount of stress. Do you thing its possible a cause, actually is the case of its coming?
RP: Yes, if anything unusual is happening in the disease world, I think you can blame sanctions as one of the big causes, dislocating the world economy, if you cause unemployment you gone increase infectious diseases
JB: You mean poverty causes infectious diseases?
JB: Also, someone referring to sites of 5G deployment, the new telecommunications standard that involves new millimeters waves, basically being everywhere in environment so you cannot escape from these microwaves. Do you think that could contribute to declining immune system?
RP: Yes, I saw a good take on hour-long lecture by Devra Davis, she did a good book on cancer, The Secret History of the War on Cancer, this is a very good analyses of the electromagnetic damage, mostly they are claiming that is safe on bases of absolute no research, but the animal research that exist shows that there is a real danger.
JB: That there is a degradation of the immune system from, like cell phone for instance?
RP: Yes, for example, some studies, just the mild field from setting up an electric sewing machine they found that people who worked on electric sewing machine for 20 years had a very high rate of dementia, and anything that affects your nervous system is affecting your immune system.
JB: Right, so another reason to go on rolling machine or a bicycle.
JB: How much role endotoxin plays in regards to viral infection and the effects of endotoxin are increased in the presents of the virus?
RP: Endotoxin is a protein with fatty acids and carbohydrates attached to it, it’s called lipopolysaccharides, but is just part of the coding of bacterium so its being produce in the living process of the bacteria, and normally our intestine filters out most of it, but when you are under stress more of it reaches the liver and the liver is always doing a fairly good job of detoxifying but some of it always circulating and activating the immune system a little bit, but when you under stress your liver gets overwhelm with this bacterial material and lets it produce inflammation and stress interfering with oxidative metabolism everywhere in your body and its activating because is interfering with mitochondrial energy production, its overlapping with what the angiotensin is doing anyway, but it activates the angiotensin system, so viral infection and anything stressing your intestine enough to make it permeable to bacterial materials will end up the same place making you having inflammatory symptoms, sometimes with … ? symptoms, other times with lung and head syndrome? symptoms.
JB: Yes, I didn’t believe you years ago when you said intestine is connected to other organs but I do believe you now, and if you look at the map of nerve system your intestine is connected with all those.
RP: Yes, it’s partly chemical leaking through and partly inflammatory substances like serotonin and histamine produced by the intestine itself getting in the blood stream, tremendous flood of serotonin shows up and circulates in the platelets, and the nerves directly can transmit signals such as secretion of mucus and production of histamine and serotonin and nitric oxide right up in the nose membrane and throat membrane, so you can treat the symptoms at the source by swallowing this things?, that’s way I recommend the raw carrot, because carrot being indigestible will help to wash out some of the bacteria that are producing endotoxin, but if you take anti-inflammatory things with it, such as olive or coconut oil, or aspirin or anti-histamine, or antibiotic, the carrot will deliver that down all the way through the intestine offering protection and anti-inflammatory effect. An early US 20th century gastroenterologists demonstrated that … ? temper, which saw as lung and respiratory disease, he found that before any bacteria or any virus occurred in any of this respiratory membranes it was
already well establish infection of the intestine, and they will start drooling and sniffling because of nervous or chemical signal from an inflamed intestine, so no pathogen was present in this inflamed respiratory membrane, it was all coming from the intestine. I think that’s a very generally neglected in people treating respiratory sicknesses, they let them go on eating things that are known to favor bacterial growth in the small intestine for example.
JB: I notice when I eat something my nose started to get moist inside, maybe is my age, I am almost 65, but when I eat something now, doesn’t always happen, but from time to time, I started to get slightly runny nose
RP: Yes, that was something I notice about some years ago, when I worked in the woods, I would come in to eat something in the restaurant, and I notice day after day I would see someone eating paya ? or milk shake and by the time they got to the… they will be sniffling… I things it was loosening up, mucus producing sort of therapeutic cleanse reaction when they got their blood sugar up, the first stage of inflammation increases circulation but it can dry up the membranes, and the mucus that they secret becomes gummy and hardened and produces a dry coughs, but when you get your blood sugar up the process can complete itself, seems to need enough energy to produce a good flow of blood and mucus production, so it can wash away the histamine.
JB: What about the theory the virus is simply ..? or stomatitis from bacteria and viral infections are really caused by a cold ? intracellular bacteria.. it must be a cold bacteria associated with HIV?
RP: Those things do exist, but I don’t think he was right in that blaming at all on cold bacteria. We are loaded with potential viruses, its several percent of our genome, some people have identified as potential viruses or retroviruses, and this are DNA that has been built in our system by an exposure to the environment. There is a lab in Germany that shows that you can identify beef DNA after you eat beef, in the blood stream and then you can find it integrated in our genome. What we eat it has DNA in it, is likely to be able to enter cells and be integrated as a potential of resource, when we put in the stress, is something that Barbara Mcclintock was very unpopular in 1940s and 50s when she talked about the jumping genes, but she show the stress causes genes to come out from the chromosomes and move around to a different place, and since we have this retroviruses, I think is almost certain to under stress we will express retroviruses that have been in us for generations, and if you look for them, you look like got o viral infection from outside, this is what Peter Duseberg is been saying for the last 40 years …. When the people with the test for HIV virus have looked from blood store of army recruits in 1960s and 70s. Every year that the stored blood showed roughly about 1.5 percent HIV infection, every year the same, and current more recent test have been in the same range of the general population. If you look at sick people you will find a higher percentage so it looks like an epidemic, even in Africa were people are under stress and exposed to many infectious diseases you will find a very high infection rate, so called HIV virus, but the standard healthy population historically has been 1.5 percent, and if you straw up the organism and cause rearrangement of the genes as Mcclintock showed the stress induces the expression of what we can call viruses, retroviruses.
JB: I heard the immunity after the infection with the coronavirus is quite short lived, does Mr Peat have any opinion on acquire immunity to coronavirus?
RP: No, not at all, but one thing that is known is that after this kind of severe respiratory infection there was a great increase in the risk of pulmonary fibrosis, just because inflammation leads to fibrosis and reduce lung function, so apart from any future risk, I think the real thing to worry about is to stop the progression of that angiotensin related inflammatory production of tissue fibrosis and stiffness
JB: I see, anti-inflammatory will do that
JB: What’s the best easy to deliver anti-inflammatory to the lung?
RP: I think through the mouth just eating like little losartan?, and the Chinese are recommending a variety of things, they including some virus killing chemicals, but I think the main their recommendation are losartan and cinanserin the anti-serotonin things being very broad spectrum protective anti-inflammatory, so I things cyproheptadine Is a good safe drug, and a lot of people are recommending the old approach to viruses, the idea of killing the virus, in the 70s and 80s, antiviral based on the idea of nucleoside analogues to mutate the DNA of the virus, acyclovir and ….? for example, and at that time, a lot of people were saying if you mutate the DNA-ARN of the virus aren’t you likely to be mutating the human DNA? and the FDA, proved studies they say absolutely not going to mutate, your gonadal DNA, but in recent years, 40 years later, the studies are saying yes, definitely injure the gonads and mutate human DNA, so people are now recommending wide spread use protectively nucleoside analog antivirals, but I think wide spread use of that is going to create genetic damage to the reproducing population.
JB: To sum up what the best course of action to protect ourselves?
RP: My first recommendation was is to eat well and make sure your vitamin D level is up around 50-60 ng/ml on blood test, which often take 5000 units per day, and to use a very safe antiviral such as aspirin, but if there is a sign of infection then I think Losartan and the anti-serotonin things will be appropriate to limit the degree of inflammation and not to worry about killing the virus or becoming immune to some future variant because your immune system is a lot better than vaccines but still the immune system doesn’t necessary keep up with the mutating virus.
JB: Ok, so losartan and cyproheptadine is good thing to take if aspirin is not working
RP: I thinks so, the Chinese recommend cinanserin, I don’t know if might be better than cyproheptadine
JB: You can also get vit D from sun light
RP: That’s the best thing.
Doing some digging, thought this was interesting, from military times.
Oops, meant to post this on the other thread.