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Ray Peat On Ketones Vs Glucose

Discussion in 'Ray Peat Quotes' started by Soundios, Sep 3, 2017.

  1. Soundios

    Soundios Member

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    From his 1994 book 'Generative Energy Restoring the Wholeness of Life'
    He says the following ; 'Glucose is often thought as the most direct source of energy, but other substances are perhaps used even more easily. 'Ketones' for example...are used more easily... Short and medium chain fatty acids are used more easily, and it is apparently this fact that accounts for their presence in milk.'

    This, to me, goes against the commonly held opinion that Peat is pro-glucose, low fat (but rich in Saturated fat).

    Anyone care to shed light on this?

    Thanks
     
  2. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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  3. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Regarding ketones: Aside from the keto acids in fruit and potatoes, the only way to get a large amount of these is to go into ketosis, and ketosis is a stressful state to be in. It's not the ketones that are the stressful part.

    Mentioned here...

    "And ketones are good if you get them from fruit or vegetables, such as potatoes but if you have to produce the ketones, they are only produced under stress in the body, and so they are good when you can get them, but it’s hard to make them yourself."

    and here...

    PATRICK TIMPONE: Okay. Here’s another e-mail. What does Mr. Peat think about the ketogenic diet? High fat, low carb, low protein. What does Ray think about bulletproof coffee? We whip up coconut oil and butter into your coffee similar to Tibetan tea. And what about refined bleached coconut oil expeller- pressed? Ketogenic diet first.

    RAY PEAT: Okay. Well, I’ve already talked about that, but it’s a matter of stress. Anything that stresses you can turn on your production of ketones. And so, it’s better to have some sugar in your diet, so you don’t have the stress that makes the ketones. But if you can get ketones from fruit and potatoes, for example, they’re fine.

    and here...

    RAY PEAT: You don't produce the ketones unless you're raising your cortisol enough ... to activate the conversion of protein into glucose, at the same time you're turning some of the fat into ketones.

    and here...

    JOHN BARKHAUSEN: So one question is about the ketone diet. It's popular these days and appears to achieve impressive weight loss results. What's your opinion on this burning off of storage fat and how it affects your overall health?

    Dr. Ray Peat: It’s very stressful to get in that condition for most people. Extreme hypoglycemia is needed and that typically turns on lots of cortisol production and that has many undesirable consequences, but the worst thing is that almost everyone, the older you are the more polyunsaturated fats you have built into your tissue and those being mobilized and oxidized damage practically everything. They interfere with mitochondrial respiration but they also break down and have cause oxidative damage to everything outside as well as inside the mitochondria. So for a 10-year old, it is not so damaging because their tissues are usually not so loaded with polyunsaturated fats but for a 30 or 40 year old, it can be really harmful.
     
  4. GoodOlMiak

    GoodOlMiak Member

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    Wow, thanks for compiling all of that info together. Personally I find taking some exogenous ketones like MCT oil has interesting results, especially before bed. I wake up quickly and full of energy. I bounce out of bed like I did as a kid.
     
  5. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    Is it really entirely mutually exclusive? It seems even those without broken gluten metabolism report benefits from those ketone supplements. Maybe they've other benefits - or combinatory effects?
     
  6. GoodOlMiak

    GoodOlMiak Member

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    They are reported to be anti inflammatory. That is a benefit in itself.

    Anecdotally, it works better than aspirin for me. Although, I'm sure it doesn't share aspirin's other effects.
     
  7. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    Which product did you use?
     
  8. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Mm maybe the ketones give you a steadier supply of energy through the night. Did you try small amounts during the day as well?
     
  9. James IV

    James IV Member

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    Ketones are awesome. Starvation induced ketones are not so awesome.
     
  10. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Would they be awesome even if carbs in the diet are high? VoS has a diet that, like haidut with pepsi, as a majority of calories coming from an odd source, he consumes small amounts of mct oil with emulsified fat soluble vitamins (egg yolk and vitamins). Last posts he made he was doing good, but has not updated his health status in a long time.
     
  11. James IV

    James IV Member

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    I think ketones are a superior energy source to saccarides overall. But no reason not to have both in the diet.
     
  12. GoodOlMiak

    GoodOlMiak Member

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    @Waynish I've used a couple of brands and (I hate to say) that I am currently experimenting with Bulletproof Brain Octane MCT oil. I'm reluctant to mention it because I don't agree with Dave Asprey's approach to health. Other brands had a similar effect and not as expensive.

    Also, I consume it with coffee and gelatin or before bed in a milk, honey and salt "shake."

    It is apparently reactive to plastics (absorbing their chemical compounds).
     
  13. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Does anyone know enough of the difference between keto acids and ketone bodies to be able to spell it out clearly? I'm afraid not being able to tell the difference is making me stunted understanding this.

    From https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/4flg01/whats_the_difference_between_ketone_bodies_and/ :

    Keto acids are organic compounds that contain both a carboxylic acid group and an ketone group (oxo group).

    Ketone bodies is the collective name of the three organic compounds (acetoacetic acid, β-hydroxybutyric acid and acetone) produced from metabolizing fatty acids during fastening, low carbohydrate intake or untreated insulin-dependent diabetes.

    Of these three ketone bodies, only acetoacetic acid is also a keto acid.

    Is the above answer correct?
     
  14. dilantinoid

    dilantinoid Member

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    Same. Though I was underwight, guant and with a grayish complexion on an extrmee zero carb diet, my mornings were the best part of my day. I woke up with ease and an enthusiasm that I could master my day, but it never endured.

    MCT oils are nasty, allergenic (IME) and require daily dosing/titration to avoid gut related side effects.

    My mornings are now dreadful, with confidence and enthusiasm building as the day progresses.

    So I’m thinking now again about exogenous ketones, not MCTs... but does anyone have experience with or thoughts on this product?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06W...36_SY340_QL65&keywords=exogenous+ketone&psc=1
     
  15. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Not my experience, nor the experience of this guy My ketone diet . He does mention too much at once is bad.
     
  16. GoodOlMiak

    GoodOlMiak Member

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    Hey @dilantinoid,

    I do not have experience with that product. If you are interested in well researched products look up Dr. Dominic D'Augustino and Tim Ferris as they both talk about ketones and ketone products. I believe D'Augustino gifted Tim with what he called 'jet fuel' - a vile smelling ketone concoction that had tremendous results on mental focus.
     
  17. Nikki

    Nikki Member

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    @GoodOlMiak. Thanks for Sharing. Could you tell me the dose you take? Could you relay it in teaspoons per 100lbs so I have an idea of what works for you? I wonder what it would do for me. I never bounce out of bed, unless it's in a panic (e.g have to pee badly, dog is about to throw up, etc). Even as a kid, I was a morning zombie. I don't expect CO to be the cure all to my anxious sleep and reluctant waking, but maybe it will help. Can you tell us how you make a "shake" out of it. Do you blend it? If so can you save it in the fridge and consume over a few days? I imagine the CO keeps the shake free of bacteria and mold.

    Thanks for posting this.
     
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