Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

[Wagner83]

I have no clue what the systemic effects of something like kaempferol or anything that affects d2-d3 would be, and while I've been called a pig before I may not be a guinea pig on this one yet.
A curious idea on D3 (and on thyroid hormone being bad):
The Thyroid Hormone-Inactivating Type III Deiodinase Is Expressed in Mouse and Human β-Cells and Its Targeted Inactivation Impairs Insulin Secretion
"
In conclusion, the present findings provide evidence that reduced thyroid hormone signaling in pancreatic β-cells during development (and potentially adulthood) is important for normal islet function and glucose homeostasis. The leading defect caused by the untimely exposure to thyroid hormone in the D3KO is impaired insulin secretion in response to glucose stimulation. D3 is also expressed in human fetal pancreas and adult pancreatic islet, suggesting that an analogous role is likely in human β-cells. Because D3 expression remains throughout adulthood in human and mouse β-cells, it would be interesting to explore the possibility that dysregulation of Dio3 could play a role in states of impaired insulin secretion. Moreover, suppression of thyroid hormone signaling could potentially be used as a strategy to improve β-cell function ( ). These data therefore suggest that D3 could be a novel target for therapeutic intervention in insulin related pathologies, especially diabetes."

 

[Drareg]

I have no clue what the systemic effects of something like kaempferol or anything that affects d2-d3 would be, and while I've been called a pig before I may not be a guinea pig on this one yet.
A curious idea on D3 (and on thyroid hormone being bad):
The Thyroid Hormone-Inactivating Type III Deiodinase Is Expressed in Mouse and Human β-Cells and Its Targeted Inactivation Impairs Insulin Secretion
"
In conclusion, the present findings provide evidence that reduced thyroid hormone signaling in pancreatic β-cells during development (and potentially adulthood) is important for normal islet function and glucose homeostasis. The leading defect caused by the untimely exposure to thyroid hormone in the D3KO is impaired insulin secretion in response to glucose stimulation. D3 is also expressed in human fetal pancreas and adult pancreatic islet, suggesting that an analogous role is likely in human β-cells. Because D3 expression remains throughout adulthood in human and mouse β-cells, it would be interesting to explore the possibility that dysregulation of Dio3 could play a role in states of impaired insulin secretion. Moreover, suppression of thyroid hormone signaling could potentially be used as a strategy to improve β-cell function ( ). These data therefore suggest that D3 could be a novel target for therapeutic intervention in insulin related pathologies, especially diabetes."

The picture on this enzyme is not complete that is certain ,the studies are showing strange results, what I don't understand is using dio3KO mice and then fasting them for 18 hours before drawing blood.
Using dio3ko mice to get a picture of this enzymes behaviour is ok for a general idea of its function but it's extreme,to then fast mice for 18 hours with their metabolism like this is strange to me.

 

[paymanz]

I know you think that anti-serotonin drugs eventually cause problems, but you've said that amitryptyline is relatively safe. Do you think it's safer than mirtazapine for moderate-term use? I've read that mirtazapine's a "successor" to mianserin.

"Although the structure suggests that it might be safer, fibrosis has been associated with both of them, and I think it’s best to concentrate on optimizing the metabolism, with thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, etc."

Those drugs are in fact dopamine/serotonine agonists,but because their dopamine agonistic effect are stronger than that of serotonin's they call it dopaminergic drugs, and dopaminergic stimulation has anti serotonin activity,at least from peat's perspective.

Some type of serotonin receptors are known to cause fibrosis(ray also mentioned dopamine to cause it!....however I don't know if that also pointed to these dopaminergic drugs or pure dopamine action)

Cypro is known to prevent the fibrosis, but it has dopamine antagonistic effect,I tried to compare its antagonistic receptor affinity on dopamine with agonistic effects of dopaminergic drugs like bromo or cabergolin.but its mixed on certain dopamine receptors cypro has more affinity and on other ones bromo has more affinity,drugs half life is important too.



@DaveFoster lisuride is known to have no affinity for 5ht2b , seems to be perfect drug, or I missing something?

---------------
So cypro is the more real anti serotonin, but its anti dopamine, it causes low mood.

I tried cypro plus bromo combo, and it made better mod than cypro alone.

Also I tried cypro pluse cabergoline and this combo made me feel a bit better than bromo combo, but I'm not sure, maybe try bromo combo again to compare better.

Bromo and cabergolin's dopamine agonist profiles are a bit different.

 

[Wagner83]

Asked him about sodium thiosulfate, for detoxification purpose:
I think it would be better to use foods for that purpose, especially fibrous foods; cooked mushrooms, raw carrots, and citrus foods might be helpful.

Interesting any idea why he mentions citrus fruits? I know warm citrus juice with honey is often seen as healthy (and tastes awesome) but that's about it.

 

[paymanz]

Interesting any idea why he mentions citrus fruits? I know warm citrus juice with honey is often seen as healthy (and tastes awesome) but that's about it.

Idk, I also asked him (in same email)about it as a therapy for excess calcium buildup from vitamin d excess.I asked it in later part of my message,I thought he ignored that part.but maybe he took that into account when he mentioned citrus fruit!

He usually mentions oranges but citrus fruit is a wide range of foods.

 

[raypeatclips]

Someone posted a comment earlier, and it seems to have gone. Asking Ray on his clarification on starches, and he said the only ones he would consider was nixtamalized corn?

 

[Wagner83]

Someone posted a comment earlier, and it seems to have gone. Asking Ray on his clarification on starches, and he said the only ones he would consider was nixtamalized corn?

It was posted here:
Sugar Or Starch? Perfect Health Diet Confusion?

 

[haidut]

Those drugs are in fact dopamine/serotonine agonists,but because their dopamine agonistic effect are stronger than that of serotonin's they call it dopaminergic drugs, and dopaminergic stimulation has anti serotonin activity,at least from peat's perspective.

Some type of serotonin receptors are known to cause fibrosis(ray also mentioned dopamine to cause it!....however I don't know if that also pointed to these dopaminergic drugs or pure dopamine action)

Cypro is known to prevent the fibrosis, but it has dopamine antagonistic effect,I tried to compare its antagonistic receptor affinity on dopamine with agonistic effects of dopaminergic drugs like bromo or cabergolin.but its mixed on certain dopamine receptors cypro has more affinity and on other ones bromo has more affinity,drugs half life is important too.



@DaveFoster lisuride is known to have no affinity for 5ht2b , seems to be perfect drug, or I missing something?

---------------
So cypro is the more real anti serotonin, but its anti dopamine, it causes low mood.

I tried cypro plus bromo combo, and it made better mod than cypro alone.

Also I tried cypro pluse cabergoline and this combo made me feel a bit better than bromo combo, but I'm not sure, maybe try bromo combo again to compare better.

Bromo and cabergolin's dopamine agonist profiles are a bit different.

Lisuride does have affinity for 5-HT2B but unlike bromo and cabergoline it is an antagonist at that receptor. That is why Pfizer is all over the lisuride cousin called "terguride" for treating lung and heart fibrosis. IMO, the best all-around serotonin antagonist is metergoline - antagonist on all serotonin receptors like cypro but no dopamine antagonism, and on top even some evidence showing D2 agonism like lisuride.

 

[paymanz]

Lisuride does have affinity for 5-HT2B but unlike bromo and cabergoline it is an antagonist at that receptor. That is why Pfizer is all over the lisuride cousin called "terguride" for treating lung and heart fibrosis. IMO, the best all-around serotonin antagonist is metergoline - antagonist on all serotonin receptors like cypro but no dopamine antagonism, and on top even some evidence showing D2 agonism like lisuride.

Wow that's great, I just wondering why lisuride or drugs you mentioned are relatively unknown compared to bromo or cabergolin or pramipexole.

All of them are from same familily but only the worst ones are widely available!

 

[haidut]

Wow that's great, I just wondering why lisuride or drugs you mentioned are relatively unknown compared to bromo or cabergolin.

All of them are from same familily but only the worst ones are widely available!

Because lisuride is not treated as a drug in the USA, so there is no interest in promoting its use. It will probably disappear completely once Pfizer gets terguride approved. It already started. Try to buy lisuride from an online pharmacy and let me know if you find a source.

 

[paymanz]

Because lisuride is not treated as a drug in the USA, so there is no interest in promoting its use. It will probably disappear completely once Pfizer gets terguride approved. It already started. Try to buy lisuride from an online pharmacy and let me know if you find a source.

What about metergoline and terguride?are they got treated same as lisuride?!

Thanks for great info!

 

[DaveFoster]

Those drugs are in fact dopamine/serotonine agonists,but because their dopamine agonistic effect are stronger than that of serotonin's they call it dopaminergic drugs, and dopaminergic stimulation has anti serotonin activity,at least from peat's perspective.

Some type of serotonin receptors are known to cause fibrosis(ray also mentioned dopamine to cause it!....however I don't know if that also pointed to these dopaminergic drugs or pure dopamine action)

Cypro is known to prevent the fibrosis, but it has dopamine antagonistic effect,I tried to compare its antagonistic receptor affinity on dopamine with agonistic effects of dopaminergic drugs like bromo or cabergolin.but its mixed on certain dopamine receptors cypro has more affinity and on other ones bromo has more affinity,drugs half life is important too.



@DaveFoster lisuride is known to have no affinity for 5ht2b , seems to be perfect drug, or I missing something?

---------------
So cypro is the more real anti serotonin, but its anti dopamine, it causes low mood.

I tried cypro plus bromo combo, and it made better mod than cypro alone.

Also I tried cypro pluse cabergoline and this combo made me feel a bit better than bromo combo, but I'm not sure, maybe try bromo combo again to compare better.

Bromo and cabergolin's dopamine agonist profiles are a bit different.

Mirtazapine doesn't seem to antagonize the 5-HT2B receptor either, so there's another factor.

 

[haidut]

What about metergoline and terguride?are they got treated same as lisuride?!

Thanks for great info!

Metergoline is similar to lisuride, not currently a drug in the USA. Terguride is already an "experimental drug" so it is very hard to get and subject to all the restrictions for prescription drugs. And Pfizer probably monitors pretty closely who buys and sells it.

 

[Birdie]

When I did a search, tocris comes up. They say they have lisuride for sale to US. Impossibly expensive.

 

[haidut]

When I did a search, tocris comes up. They say they have lisuride for sale to US. Impossibly expensive.

Yes, and in very small amounts. A log of companies sell it as reference material for chemical analysis but the amount is usually 1mg - 5mg and order of magnitude more expensive compared to what the pills used to cost in Mexican stores.

 

[haidut]

I wish he had answered the question on electron withdrawing effects...That to me is much more important.
Anyways, as the study Peat provided mentiones, the NOEL dose (upper safety limit) for DMSO in vivo is 350mg/kg for a mouse, which corresponds to 2g-3g for a human. Staying below that limit is highly advisable. For the record, none of our supplements provides anywhere close to that amount in a single (or even multiple) daily dose.
Safety Of Long-term Use Of DMSO As A Solvent

 

[dannibo]

Re: Ray Peat Email Advice: Related to Intestinal Bacteria

I mentioned to Ray Peat that I have some issues which I think are related to intestinal bacteria. He replied that travelers often pick up bacteria that can take a long time to change.



Then I asked him about which antibiotics one could use.

I personally use MMS or Chlorine dioxide in my water and to my surprise it cured my upsets and my crohns disease. I was always of the opinion that Candida Fungi were responsible for IBS and Crohns and after a bad case of food poisoning I developed Crohns. Thankfully now its gone.

 

[haidut]

I personally use MMS or Chlorine dioxide in my water and to my surprise it cured my upsets and my crohns disease. I was always of the opinion that Candida Fungi were responsible for IBS and Crohns and after a bad case of food poisoning I developed Crohns. Thankfully now its gone.

Have you seen this hypothesis? It is taken pretty seriously in some medical circles.
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis - Wikipedia

 

[dannibo]

I just browsed it and the bit about chlorination doesn't apply to chlorine dioxide. Chlorine dioxide kills all known pathogens on contact. It severs at least 5 electrons and basically the pathogen explodes. Really it has nothing to with chlorine at all, although the name suggests it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

What do you think about the Orch Or theory from Penrose for example?

I think that I remember that you said that the Electric Universe Theory is better?