Ray Peat Email Advice Depository Discussion/Comment Thread

[ecstatichamster]

Same conversation as above:
I think it’s best to grind them, because the fibrous material isn’t digestible; steroids will be emulsified with the various lipids.

I grind them in a food processor. This was my conclusion after digestive problems with too many bigger mushroom chunks.

 

[Wagner83]

I grind them in a food processor. This was my conclusion after digestive problems with too many bigger mushroom chunks.

Not sure if it matters but do you grind them before or after cooking? I'm thinking of grinding them after cooking with a cheap manual coffee grinder do you know if it would work?
I wonder if Ray has completely stopped using them in their original forms for "antibiotic" , "cleansing" effects.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Not sure if it matters but do you grind them before or after cooking? I'm thinking of grinding them after cooking with a cheap manual coffee grinder do you know if it would work?
I wonder if Ray has completely stopped using them in their original forms for "antibiotic" , "cleansing" effects.

i strongly believe grinding first is essential as it exposes the surface area to the cooking liquid.

I believe he uses it in place of the raw carrot salad.

 

[raypeatclips]

Same conversation as above:

i strongly believe grinding first is essential as it exposes the surface area to the cooking liquid.

I believe he uses it in place of the raw carrot salad.

Any idea why he would want mushrooms grinded but then always is very firm about saying carrots should not be juiced? I assumed the mushrooms would want to be chopped into small pieces but not ground down to a mush, similarly to the carrot.

 

[Wagner83]

Any idea why he would want mushrooms grinded but then always is very firm about saying carrots should not be juiced? I assumed the mushrooms would want to be chopped into small pieces but not ground down to a mush, similarly to the carrot.

I think he does not like the beta carotene from carrots and only value them for their fibers, I could be wrong though. As for mushrooms it sounds like he may have had issues with them and started grinding them to also retrieve most of the beneficial compounds in them . I asked him so hopefully he answers and clears that up.

 

[raypeatclips]

I think he does not like the carotene from carrots and only value them for their fibers, I could be wrong though. As for mushrooms it sounds like he may have had issues with them and started grinding them to also retrieve most of the beneficial compounds in them . I asked him so hopefully he answers and clears that up.

Thanks, looking forward to the response

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks, looking forward to the response

So am I, btw not sure about the beta carotene thing, but the carrots themselves when juiced have little value, the mushrooms have anti-aromatase effects, lanosterol, proteins etc..

Edit:

 

[Wagner83]

@tca300 @raypeatclips
Same discussion : Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
the following post and this one:Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

 

[meatbag]

@milk_lover

Ray Peat said:
"Those steroids can be absorbed through any skin, and I think the arms or legs would be better. I don’t think it’s a good idea to put anything odd into the proximity of testes or ovaries, and since I think even the purest DMSO will hold only about 3 or 4% of a steroid like DMSO in solution, the effect of the solvent might be greater than that of the DMSO [maybe he meant the steroid here]. Taking the DMSO powder orally is very effective, too."

This is kinda confusing....I guess if you substitute DHEA for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th DMSO word in what he wrote he is saying that if you're making a DHEA solution in DMSO it can only reach a ~4% concentration before precipitating out and that if DHEA in DMSO is applied topically then the effect of the DMSO would be greater than the effect if the DHEA???

 

[milk_lover]

@milk_lover

Ray Peat said:
"Those steroids can be absorbed through any skin, and I think the arms or legs would be better. I don’t think it’s a good idea to put anything odd into the proximity of testes or ovaries, and since I think even the purest DMSO will hold only about 3 or 4% of a steroid like DMSO in solution, the effect of the solvent might be greater than that of the DMSO [maybe he meant the steroid here]. Taking the DMSO powder orally is very effective, too."

This is kinda confusing....I guess if you substitute DHEA for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th DMSO word in what he wrote he is saying that if you're making a DHEA solution in DMSO it can only reach a ~4% concentration before precipitating out and that if DHEA in DMSO is applied topically then the effect of the DMSO would be greater than the effect if the DHEA???

I think that's what I understood from his email. I was confused as well so I had to google if DMSO is a steroid lol.. I think he meant the effect of DMSO will be greater than the steroid (DHEA, prgnenolone, and progesterone) because the maximum concentration the DMSO solution can hold is merely 3 to 4% of steroids so he thinks it's better to apply the solution anywhere but near the testicles/ovaries.. I think "odd" referred to DMSO. Correct me guys if you think I and @Meatbag didn't get it.

 

[Wagner83]

It's a weird mistake because he made it like three times in a row, sounds like his brain was not working well or he had gotten through 50 emails already.

 

[milk_lover]

It's a weird mistake because he made it like three times in a row, sounds like his brain was not working well or he had gotten through 50 emails already.

But you can tell the main idea behind his email: no odd thing close to testicles. That's why I didn't bother to ask him for more clarification.

 

[haidut]

@milk_lover

Ray Peat said:
"Those steroids can be absorbed through any skin, and I think the arms or legs would be better. I don’t think it’s a good idea to put anything odd into the proximity of testes or ovaries, and since I think even the purest DMSO will hold only about 3 or 4% of a steroid like DMSO in solution, the effect of the solvent might be greater than that of the DMSO [maybe he meant the steroid here]. Taking the DMSO powder orally is very effective, too."

This is kinda confusing....I guess if you substitute DHEA for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th DMSO word in what he wrote he is saying that if you're making a DHEA solution in DMSO it can only reach a ~4% concentration before precipitating out and that if DHEA in DMSO is applied topically then the effect of the DMSO would be greater than the effect if the DHEA???

The solubility of DHEA and progesterone in DMOS is at least 50mg/ml, which is 5%. I have tried it, and depending on temperature and other chemicals added to increase steroid solubility, you can get up to 8% solution of progesterone/DHEA in DMSO/ethanol.
Anyways, I think if scrotum is used as an application area then a lower dose should be tried first to account for the effects DMSO itself may have on local tissues when used in higher doses. So, I am with Peat on this one, but scrotal application does have its used IMO since it is the only way to raise serum androgens and many people are after that effect. Applying on other areas like shoulders or legs will not get much of these steroid precursors to the gonads, but will still provide steroids to other tissues for intracrine steroid synthesis.

 

[Wagner83]

Anyways, I think if scrotum is used as an application area then a lower dose should be tried first to account for the effects DMSO itself may have on local tissues when used in higher doses.

From what I remember you tried 150-200 mg of dmso as a 5% solution on its own on scrotum and did not notice much but still saw a 20% increase in the weights you could lift.

But you can tell the main idea behind his email: no odd thing close to testicles. That's why I didn't bother to ask him for more clarification.

I just meant his mental sharpness was absent. He has also said he would not mess with the lipids composition of the scrotum/testicles, and so would not use fat topically there. For the record his answer to my question on the safety of dmso on scrotum (combined with a few studies I sent) was that he could not think of a worst place to use it.

 

[milk_lover]

From what I remember you tried 150-200 mg of dmso as a 5% solution on its own on scrotum and did not notice much but still saw a 20% increase in the weights you could lift.



I just meant his mental sharpness was absent. He has also said he would not mess with the lipids composition of the scrotum/testicles, and so would not use fat topically there. For the record his answer to my question on the safety of dmso on scrotum (combined with a few studies I sent) was that he could not think of a worst place to use it.

That's very interesting about the environment of the testicles. I think we should be a little more careful when applying solutions onto the scrotum. @haidut mentioned it's the only area of skin (and its surroundings) where we can raise our serum androgens.. But is it the only place to achieve that? That's what I am interested in.

 

[haidut]

That's very interesting about the environment of the testicles. I think we should be a little more careful when applying solutions onto the scrotum. @haidut mentioned it's the only area of skin (and its surroundings) where we can raise our serum androgens.. But is it the only place to achieve that? That's what I am interested in.

It's not the only place where you can achieve that but in order to noticeably increase gonadal steroidogenesis enough steroid precursors need to make it to the gonads. Because all tissues are so pregnenolone/DHEA hungry, the farther away you apply it the less will reach the gonads. I think another good area is on both sides of the pubic bone as the gonadal blood vessels pass through those regions. But maybe a bigger dose would be needed than when applying to the scrotum.
I suggested scrotum because the skin there is the thinnest and allows for maximum absorption and takes away the guesswork from how much to apply to feel an effect as virtually ANY dose applied to the gonads will have an effect. So, a much smaller dose can be used and with something like DHEA this is a good thing as applying a lot more further away can cause issues with estrogen.
But if people are concerned then other ares should be tried as well. I am certainly not saying one MUST apply it to the gonads.

 

[milk_lover]

It's not the only place where you can achieve that but in order to noticeably increase gonadal steroidogenesis enough steroid precursors need to make it to the gonads. Because all tissues are so pregnenolone/DHEA hungry, the farther away you apply it the less will reach the gonads. I think another good area is on both sides of the pubic bone as the gonadal blood vessels pass through those regions. But maybe a bigger dose would be needed than when applying to the scrotum.
I suggested scrotum because the skin there is the thinnest and allows for maximum absorption and takes away the guesswork from how much to apply to feel an effect as virtually ANY dose applied to the gonads will have an effect. So, a much smaller dose can be used and with something like DHEA this is a good thing as applying a lot more further away can cause issues with estrogen.
But if people are concerned then other ares should be tried as well. I am certainly not saying one MUST apply it to the gonads.

Noted

Thanks for the detailed response :)

 

[meatbag]

Noted

Thanks for the detailed response :)

 

[Wagner83]

It's not the only place where you can achieve that but in order to noticeably increase gonadal steroidogenesis enough steroid precursors need to make it to the gonads. Because all tissues are so pregnenolone/DHEA hungry, the farther away you apply it the less will reach the gonads. I think another good area is on both sides of the pubic bone as the gonadal blood vessels pass through those regions. But maybe a bigger dose would be needed than when applying to the scrotum.
I suggested scrotum because the skin there is the thinnest and allows for maximum absorption and takes away the guesswork from how much to apply to feel an effect as virtually ANY dose applied to the gonads will have an effect. So, a much smaller dose can be used and with something like DHEA this is a good thing as applying a lot more further away can cause issues with estrogen.
But if people are concerned then other ares should be tried as well. I am certainly not saying one MUST apply it to the gonads.

I've been wondering about how applying a large dose of dhea (8-10mg) over a very large surface area (e.g. arms + belly+ calves and quads) would work out. 1mg if applied as a drop on a very small area could still be a lot of dhea for this specific bit of tissue. Of course there would then be issues with the solvent giving most of the effects or bad side effects.

 

[haidut]

I've been wondering about how applying a large dose of dhea (8-10mg) over a very large surface area (e.g. arms + belly+ calves and quads) would work out. 1mg if applied as a drop on a very small area could still be a lot of dhea for this specific bit of tissue. Of course there would then be issues with the solvent giving most of the effects or bad side effects.

There are human studies with DHEA and the abdomen was where a very large dose (several grams) was applied. I think they said 5%-10% is the typical absorption with the creams they used so they were aiming to get about 50mg DHEA into the blood. It does work, but with such a large amount of DHEA it is hard to control how much gets absorbed and when left on the skin for long periods eventually most of it will get absorbed. So, the risk of estrogenicity is huge. I would rather use a smaller dose with more effective solvent on an area that I know will metabolize it quickly (gonads). Applying 1mg to the gonads is fine, it is not the skin is fine as the target is the gonads and they can metabolize a few mg of DHEA per hour (depending on metabolism).