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Ray Peat Diet, Food Choices, And General Guidelines

  1. Also read: Notes Toward an "Optimal Peat Diet" | Ray Peat Forum

    The information below is pulled from other sites. We are in the process of putting together our own chart and food recommendation list at the link above based on Ray Peat philosophies.

    *Graphic above is used with permission from Steven Smith.

    Daily protein should be at least 80 grams, preferably 100 if you are working or otherwise active. An egg has about 6 grams, a quart of milk about 32 grams, meat, cheese, and fish are usually about 20% protein, so a pound would be enough for a day. It's important to have fruit or other carbohydrate with the protein for efficient metabolism. Milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish are good protein sources, and potato protein is high in quality, if the potato is very well cooked and eaten with butter or cream. Although potatoes contain only about 2% protein, a kilogram of potato has roughly the protein value of a liter of milk (which is 3% protein), because of its high quality. Unless you are buying eggs from a verified grass-fed, free range source he recommends limiting them to one or two a day, and making sure to have plenty of carbohydrate around the same time to prevent sugar crash.

    Meats like ground beef, steak, liver, and pork chops are rich in cysteine, which “turns off” the thyroid gland as soon as your body uses up it’s glycogen and ideally shouldn't be your main source of protein. Muscle meats should be eaten with the gelatin it comes with, or supplemental gelatin (see below), to balance out an anti-thyroid amino acid called tryptophan (which is also found in whey protein formulations). Traditionally, muscle meats are eaten with the fat, skin and the gelatin that they come with, so this is mostly an issue in first-world countries where we have protein powders and pure muscle meats readily available. Chicken liver contains such a small amount of fat it's okay to have in addition to or instead of beef liver (which should be consumed weekly). Pork or chicken every 7- 10 days is okay if your metabolic rate (thyroid function) is good. When chicken is stewed, gelatin from the skin is valuable, and much of the fat can be skimmed off(just remember chicken is not optimal). With any of the muscle meats, including fish, gelatin is helpful for balancing the high cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan content. Regarding bacon, Peat says, “The nitrate isn't likely to be a problem if you eat it with orange juice. I fry the bacon to remove some of the fat, and then refry it in coconut oil, to remove most of the PUFA.”

    Fatty fish like salmon and herring should be avoided because their fat content is mostly unsaturated; as a general rule, cold blooded animals like fish tend to produce unsaturated fats while warm blooded animals like cows and pigs tend to produce saturated and monounsaturated fats. Cod and sole are good fish, since they have the marine minerals (especially selenium), but low fat content. Tuna is good as protein, but the fat it contains is highly polyunsaturated; eating once a week, especially with homemade coconut mayo should be safe.of course

    Regarding his recommendation of daily gelatin:
    For an adult, gelatin can be a major protein in the diet, since the need for cysteine and tryptophan decreases greatly when growth slows. Ox-tail soup (boiled for 4 or 5 hours) and lamb shanks have a good proportion of gelatin. I think most stores have gelatin in one pound packages or bigger, for example Great Lakes gelatin is usually around $11 per pound. If a person eats a large serving of meat, it's probably helpful to have 5–10 grams of gelatin at approximately the same time, so that the amino acids enter the blood stream in balance. Asian grocery stores are likely to sell some of the traditional gelatin-rich foods, such as prepared pig skin and ears and tails, and chicken feet. Although the prepared powdered gelatin doesn't require any cooking, dissolving it in hot water makes it digest a little more quickly. It can be incorporated into custards, mousses, ice cream, soups, sauces, cheese cake, pies, etc., or mixed with fruit juices to make desserts or (with juice concentrate) candies.

    Peat is a big fan of dairy. He prefers milk with no added vitamins, raw if you can get it, but uses standard pasteurized-homogenized when there’s no alternative. He prefers cheese made without enzymes, just animal rennet. He doesn't use yogurt because of the lactic acid and/or lactobacillus. He avoids anything with gums in it, like cream cheese. Ice cream like Haagen Dazs is okay since it has no carageenan or gums like guar/carob bean– these are often found in foods like cream cheese, canned coconut milk, and half-and-half; make sure that the ice cream does not have any vegetable oil in it as some varieties include this. Regarding yogurt, in quantities of an ounce or so, for flavoring, it's o.k., but the lactic acid content isn't good if you are using yogurt as a major source of your protein and calcium; it triggers the inflammatory reactions, leading to fibrosis eventually, and the immediate effect is to draw down the liver's glycogen stores for energy to convert it into glucose. Cottage cheese, that is, milk curds with salt, is very good, if you can find it without additives, but traditional cottage cheese was almost fat-free, so when they make it with whole milk you should watch for other innovations that might not be beneficial.

    Although Peat basically scorns legumes, he said hummus in small amounts isn't nutritionally harmful, though chickpeas and tahini are both allergenic for some people.

    Best sources are coconut oil and butter; olive oil and macadamia nut oil sparingly. He is a big fan of (refined) coconut oil to stimulate the metabolism. Among nuts and nut oils, macadamia is probably the safest. See the Omega-6 list below for more info.

    Have some with every meal to prevent hypoglycemia after eating the proteins.
    Fruit and fruit juices – If you're able to do it, try to consume fresh fruits and fruit juices every day. Orange juice is great because of it’s potassium and magnesium content. Tropical fruits and juices are excellent too. If you don’t have a juicer at home, you can buy pasteurized juices with no additives that say “not from concentrate” on the label. Juices that are from concentrate are made up of mostly added water that is flouridated. Fruits in general are fine (tropical are best), but grapefruit is full of phytoestrogens, so avoid it, and berries are full of small seeds you can't avoid, so it's better to skip them. He recommends avoiding bananas and other starchy-poorly-ripened-industrialized fruits, which includes most apples and pears (when these are ripe, peeled and cooked they are much more nutritious, and safer). Organic dried fruits are fine as long as they are not treated with sulfur dioxide; canned fruits are okay, especially if they are in glass. You can have a small apple and some cheese as a snack occasionally if it doesn't cause any digestive or allergic symptoms—the fat in the cheese is protective against the starch in incompletely ripened fruit.

    Tubers – Potato, yams; occasionally well-cooked grains in the order of best to least desirable: masa harina, white rice or oats, brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value. Canned plain pumpkin if eaten with some fat is okay, but carrots are less starchy for similar effects.

    He recommends eating a raw carrot daily, particularly a raw carrot salad with coconut oil, for both its bowel-protective and an anti-estrogen effect. Summer squash and bamboo shoots are the best cooked vegetables; well cooked kale and broccoli are okay, too. Carrots are best salad. The fiber in whole vegetables helps protect against the effects of the unsaturated fats they contain (in comparison to fruit), which means that juiced vegetables with none of the protective fiber will act as a thyroid inhibitor because of the concentrated PUFAs. There isn’t anything wrong with using vegetables as a smaller part of your diet, but salads and steamed vegetable dishes shouldn’t be the main part of anyone’s diet. He recommends avoiding avocados as they contain so much unsaturated fat that they can be carcinogenic and hepatotoxic (toxic to the liver).

    Coffee supports the metabolism but has to be consumed with some sugar or with meal to prevent stress response due to low blood sugar. Because of the tannins in tea, it's important to use either lemon or milk (or cream). The histamine in red wine is a special problem for hypothyroid people, usually it isn't harmful.

    PUFAs and soy. PUFAs are found in processed foods, nuts and seeds and their butters, vegetable oils, margarine. Also keep in mind that if you have been eating PUFAs in the past, the oil change in your tissues takes up to four years during which your fat stores will be releasing enough PUFAs to cause you some troubles, so it requires some patience and also some skillful means to counteract their effects, like getting some extra vitamin E or a little thyroid to counteract their antithyroid action etc. It all depends on how your metabolism works.

    Chocolate is okay as long as there are no additives.

    For salty cravings, Peat recommends tortilla chips fried in coconut oil, and chicharrones (pork rinds) with no additive but salt (puffed in hot air). Another snack is popcorn popped on the stove in coconut oil, then salted & buttered; the oil and butter are protective against the starch, but it's harder to digest than tortilla chips or chicharrones.

    For salt use Mortons Canning and Pickling salt.

    Vinegar is a good antiseptic when it's used with raw carrot, but watch for sulfite when using regularly.

    Maple syrup is heated to a fairly high temperature, and this creates some sugar-derived chemicals that can be allergenic and might be toxic.

    Regarding whey protein, Peat says, “Powdered foods that contain tryptophan are extremely susceptible to harmful oxidation, and the best things are removed, for example calcium, lactose, and casein, with its anti-stress properties.”

    Ray Peat Eating Guidelines : Semi Low-Carb Plans Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums
  2. Ray Peats own personal diet...

    Ray Peats own personal diet from:
    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV ... ssage/5523

    Okay, Bruce, this is a summary from my correspondance with her about
    what Ray Peat eats (or ate, if he's changed things) and what he
    recommends. This is from 2005.

    - dairy, fruit and meat are the core of his diet.

    dairy for the protein, calcium, and other nutrients
    fruits (or other sugars as 2nd choice) for the KAs and EAAs
    gelatin to balance the aminos and to replace the need for eating
    animal brains and other organs muscle meat as a supplement for
    protein magnesium, etc.

    - he gets from 120 to 150 grams of protein per day. Doesn't feel quite
    right when he goes as low as 100. A few quarts of milk, several ounces
    of cheese, gelatin in some form (broth, chicharrones, gummy bears,
    etc.), at least a quart of orange juice (or equivalent other fruit),
    and the occasional (rotating) eggs, shellfish, fish, and beef, bison,
    or lamb, in one or two of his meals.

    - says one must always balance protein with sugar (fruit being the
    best) because protein alone lowers blood sugar and you need the sugar
    to better metabolize the protein. So when he eats protein, he eats
    sugar with it: about 1:1 fruit to meat, and about 2:1 fruit to cheese.

    - says best to limit meat due to the tryptophan and antimetabolic
    properties, but it can be handled if consumed with fruit and gelatin.
    He does eat meat almost every day, or just beef or lamb broth When
    the meat is aged he doesn't like the taste so he doesn't eat much of it.

    - he eats meat with gelatin. The gelatin can be either from regular
    powder or from broth cooked no more than 3 hours (otherwise you
    degrade the nutrients he says).

    - he avoids all fatty fish.

    - says chicken should be eaten no more than one meal every 10 days due
    to toxins and PUFAs.

    - eggs where the chickens are fed corn and soy should be minimally
    consumed (for him 2 per week if that), and with one egg you need about
    10 ounces of OJ to balance it (because egg protein is a powerful
    insulin activator).

    - he eats shellfish about once every ten days. Shrimp, scallops,
    lobsters have a high ratio of protein to unsaturated fat and help to
    insure adequate selenium. Cooks them thoroughly, having known people
    who got hepatitis from raw seafood.

    - rotates his animal protein sources only because he gets tired of the
    same meals, no health reason

    - he avoids most vegetables due to their intrinsic (defensive) toxins.
    He occasionally makes leaf broth for some extra minerals, but usually
    prefers for a cow to process them for him. Mainly he thinks of them as

    - underground (root/tuber) vegetables are okay if cooked for about 40
    minutes, and fruit-vegetables (tomatoes, peppers) are okay if you're
    not allergic to them.

    - he avoids all other above-ground vegetables, including greens and
    many herbs (basil, etc) due to toxins (even if cooked) that far
    outweigh the benefits.

    - says that cooked young squashes are generally good for everyone, and
    although raw shredded carrots are "nutrient subtractive," it's good to
    have a plate of them every day because they lower estrogen (and thus
    stimulate the thyroid) and accelerate peristalsis.

    - he avoids fermented foods. Stopped using black pepper (a fermented
    food, apparently) about 30 years ago when he saw the toxicity studies.
    Avoids things like apple cider because it is frequently contaminated
    with fungal poisons. Says that the more nutritious it is, the more
    likely to contain fungal estrogen and other harmful things, unless you
    know the actual materials and process used in making it.
    Lacto-fermented foods are carcinogenic. Cheese is okay being fermented
    because of the strong nutrients in the milk to start with that
    vegetables don't have.

    - says reason for people's negative reactions to dairy (if the milk
    isn't contaminated) is from either preexisting gut damage (from
    gluten, for example) or from a low thyroid or protein deficiency
    problem. People who are under stress from low thyroid or protein
    deficiency have considerable trouble adapting he says, but with
    gradual changes (adding dairy back in) the tissues will adjust and do
    what they have to do.

    - says to eat liver only occasionally because it depresses the thyroid.

    - he doesn't eat fruits with seeds that can't be avoided (berries,
    figs, etc) because while the antioxidants are good, the benefits are
    less than the toxins in the seeds. Other fruits like peaches, plums,
    apples, etc should only be eaten if organic and tree-ripened;
    otherwise they have very powerful toxins (if unripe or shelf-ripened)
    that can cause gut damage. Melons, cherries, and citrus are the best

    - when off-season, says it's better to eat frozen fruit and juice
    rather than rely on importation because many studies show that storage
    methods and stress from importation and treatments make them carcinogenic.

    - with cheese and milk, the feeding of the animals (grassfed vs.
    grainfed) is more the issue than raw vs. pasteurized.

    - he avoids all grains. Traditional "proper preparation" methods used
    throughout the world to render them less harmful involved using
    alkaline mediums such as wood ash (as opposed to "acidic" as Sally
    Fallon suggests) and "lime" as in calcium oxide (as opposed to "lime
    or lemon juice" as Sally Fallon asserts). Research shows that that
    these methods will convert some of the tryptophan to niacin. Using
    whey would be especially ineffective as well as problematic due to the
  3. 10 Health Benefits of Gelatin

    10 Health Benefits of Gelatin
    http://healthmad.com/nutrition/10-healt ... f-gelatin/

    Muscle growth: According to the Gelatin Manufacturers Institute of America, gelatin contains lysine, an amino acid that is important for muscle growth. It would seem, then, that eating gelatin would help growing muscles, especially for athletes and those who want a more muscular build.

    Metabolism: Gelatin contains another amino acid, arginine, which is supposed to help the body’s metabolism. A stronger metabolism means more calories are getting burned, so it’s not impossible eating some gelatin could help you lose weight. However, a word of warning: One study has found that an arginine supplement could be deadly to those who have suffered a heart attack; so if you’ve had a heart attack, foods containing arginine are probably not right for you. Check with your doctor or cardiologist.

    Losing weight: Gelatin does not contain fat and usually has no sugar or cholesterol in it. Which means gelatin is a pretty good food for those of us watching our waistlines. Jell-O even makes sugar free and low calories desserts, if you are interested.

    Joint conditions: Suffering from stiff or sore joints? Gelatin might be able to help, especially before the condition worsens. Gelatin contains lots of amino acids important in helping to prevent the weakness and degeneration of cartilage in joints. Gelatin likely won’t help to heal a joint condition, but it possibly could prevent the situation from growing worse.

    Finger nails: Remember all those amino acids in gelatin? They also help to strengthen finger nails and over a period of time can help to heal up cracked or roughened finger nails. Also, gelatin has a lot of protein, which is good for nails. If you suffer from weak nails, especially ones that break easily, you might want to try some gelatin in your diet.

    Hair: Gelatin is also known to help hair grow stronger, faster and longer. Gelatin also helps to keep hair healthy and shiny. What is it about gelatin that promotes all this great hair? It’s the high amounts of protein. Just in case you need to know for dietic or religious purposes, most gelatins sold in stores are made from animal; however, gelatins can be made from some plants, most notably seaweed, so check those ingredient labels on the boxes of gelatin you might consider purchasing.

    Protein boost: Gelatin itself has a lot of protein, but unfortunately nearly all that protein is protein the body can already make for itself. Thus a diet in gelatin alone is not healthy. That being said, studies have shown that the protein in gelatin does help give a boost to proteins in other foods. In other words, just as an example, if you eat a steak full of protein then add a little gelatin to your meal, the protein in the gelatin helps the protein in the steak to be more nutritional for your body. So, if you need protein, you know what to do. Add a little gelatin to your diet.

    Drink purifier: According to the Gelatin Manufacturers Association of Asia Pacific, gelatins are often used in the making of alcoholic beverages, such as wine and beer, and even in some juices and ciders. The reason for this is that gelatin acts to congeal impurities, allowing for easier separation of the impurities from the drink itself. If you happen to be a home brewer or juicer, I suggest contacting the folks at Knox gelatin for any recipe advice.

    Skin health: Gelatins are used in plenty of cosmetics. Why? For two reasons. First, the gelatin acts as a thickening agent, thus helping makeup and other cosmetics to remain to the skin longer and more easily. Second, we’re back to the proteins again. All that protein in gelatins is good for keeping up a good looking skin tone.

    Digestion: Gelatin can also help with digestion, especially with foods that can be rough on the digestive system, such as meats and dairy and nuts and even some beans. The gelatin helps these foods to ease through the stomach and intestines.
  4. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    Everything is great as long as everybody realizes that Peat doesn't have specific recommendations. Context is everything, and everyone is different.
  5. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    One more thing. I'd be a little wary of suggesting starchy foods. Just because they are "Peat-friendly" doesn't mean they should always be consumed. Peat believes that the protein in potatoes is very good, and potatoes are ok in context, but the GI of starchy foods is very high and can quickly lower blood sugar after a meal and stimulate cortisol secretion. Therefore starches should probably be limited. Carrots or bamboo shoots can be consumed daily because they have anti serotonin and anti estrogenic effects in the gut and do the opposite of what starches do, as in, they don't feed bacteria. But too many carrots can cause beta carotene toxic effects, so they should be limited to one or two per day.
  6. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    I went ahead and took out the writing below the graphic and will let the graphic speak for itself. Thanks for your input, Steven.
  7. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    Everything else you had was fine, and you can add it back if you wish.
  8. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    margarine seems to be missing among the bad foods.
  9. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    J, thank you. I have added it to the "avoid at all costs" section. maybe steven can add it to the graphic is he wants to.
  10. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    I have updated the guideline with a more thorough list. Please let me know if any changes need to be made.
  11. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    I always make sure to eat starches with fruit or sucrose to prevent the spike in and drop in blood sugar.
  12. Re: Ray Peat Food Choices and General Guidelines

    Cliff, welcome to the forum! :wave:

    That's interesting what you say about the starches.
  13. This is awesome mate thanks - thanks for putting the time in, I owe you ^^
  14. Hoppimike, Welcome to the Ray Peat forum! It's great to see you here! :wave:

    The community is in the process of pooling together all the information we can on Ray Peat and his philosophies. This will obviously take some time but with everyones help it will move along well. We are also working up a "Ray Peat Diet" plan that will be very thorough and made by you, the Ray Peat community. We are using all our experiences and communication with Dr. Peat to bring together the most extensive plan that we are able to so people have a place to look for a general direction of diet recommendations.

    Time to kick some PUFA butt! :thumbup:
  15. I think it's all great :)

    I always wanted to get more into Ray's stuff but it's tricky when it's relatively inaccessible.

    This should be a very constructive project :)
  16. Food chart graphic has been updated. Steven wrote Dr. Peat and asked him to look at the food chart, his response will be posted below. The food chart now reflects the changes suggested by Dr. Peat.

  17. Mangos can be allergenic too, for some, and it would be hard to guage this so we avoid them completely.
  18. Newer generations have been sensitized to foods through vaccines, there's a plethora of contaminants (eggs, PUFAs) in vaccines that don't show in the ingredients list.

    Cherries are very high in salicylates, but so are oranges.
  19. Salicylates are beneficial, just natural aspirin basically.
  20. Salicylates in plants protect them from insects, fungi, and bacteria,
    but they can be harmful depending on dose and person's "tolerance".

    If the person is intolerant to salycilates they won't benefit as much from
    fruits high in salycilates, and can have a hard time identifying such sensitivities.
  21. Regarding food ratios, posted on the Fans page Sept 26 by Konstantin:

    i also asked him about the Pufa-threshold and thats what he told me: "I used to eat about 50% of calories as saturated fat, but to reduce PUFA, in recent years I have greatly increased my sugar intake, and reduced fat. If the metabolic rate stays high relative to calorie intake, the pufa will be burned quickly, without having an opportunity to shape the physiology very much. Other things become relatively more important as the pufa intake approaches zero---methyl donors, phosphate excess, iron/copper ratio, etc."
  22. Yes I saw that post Birdie, thank you for bringing it over. I forgot who the guy was he was quoting, I wanted to search more into him but I just didnt have the time then.
  23. Charlie,
    I thought you might have posted it already. If I put up something you already have, just delete mine... I don't know how you find time to do this forum. :)

    That was a quote from RP in answer to a question from Konstantin Weltersbach.
  24. Birdie, I dont sleep. lol JK

    I thought for sure he was quoting someone else.
  25. Birdie, he was quoting this guy, https://www.facebook.com/lucbuchanan

  26. Are you sure. To me, it looks like Konstantin is quoting Peat to Lucas.. ? He says, ""Lucas, "I also asked him... "'. The grammar is difficult to follow...
  27. I think so, maybe we should clarify with Konstantin.
  28. Completely agree. Many of them are listed with the vaccine patents. I have my damned latext allergy thanks to it being in the Hep B vaccine I was given as an adult.
  29. Do you find Italian Reggiano's in your grocery store? I can't find any.
  30. Walmart, Publix, and BJ's carry it here in FL.
  31. I see a bunch of PR but it all has enzymes and/or cultures in.
  32. In Walmart and Pulix it is not with the bulk of cheeses. Deli area.
  33. Here in the UK it's in virtually every grocery store.
  34. Cultures is ok if its animal rennet. Original PR (milk, salt, rennet) should always be animal source.

    On other cheeses, it's trickier to determine where the rennet comes from.
  35. Ah too bad. I live in a small town in Canada and it's next to impossible to find any cheeses without bacteria cultures. The only one I've been able to find is this whey cheese imported from Norway - http://www.norseland.ca/en/cheeses/ski-queen. Thoughts?

    Also, what do you guys look for in chocolate? Should I avoid bars with Soya Lecithin?

  36. Avoid all forms of soy like the plague!
  37. Also, what about cheese with bacterial cultures and animal rennet (no other enzymes)?
  38. I learned over the weekend that Jello is made from pig skin. So adios, Jello. I'm not Jewish but pork is not something I can eat. :--(
  39. So am I correct in garnering from this that chicken stock made from pastured carcasses/feet would not be good to consume? I really hate beef stock. :cry:
  40. Hi Violet! Chicken stock is fine. Just skim off the fat after you refrigerate. I prefer chicken stock also.
  41. When describing a Peat approach to someone...this is generally how I present it (based on Charlies first post and what I've read), tell me if I should adjust

    General Peat approach - (To keep stress low, and to keep metabolism and thyroid function high, which protects against most forms of disease and infection)
    - Maintain adequate mineral and electrolyte supply, avoid eating Polyunsaturated fats, maintain adequate blood sugar and circulating protein, keep iron intake low

    To obtain necessary minerals, but ideally not eaten much more than that - (Mainly supplying Vitamin A, D, Zinc, Selenium, Calcium, Magnesium, Iodine, Copper, and Chromium)
    - Whole Milk, Cheese, Chocolate, Eggs, Beef Liver, Oysters, Shellfish

    Ideal Energy sources - (To be eaten throughout day to maintain steady blood sugar / circulating protein)
    - Skimmed Milk, Orange Juice, Coffee + Sugar
    Protective Energy sources but not as ideal as above -
    - Tea (or other caffeine herbs) + Sugar, Mexican Coke, Ghee, Butter, Cream, Tallow (from beef/lamb), Coconut oil, Cocoa butter, Papaya, Pineapple, Coconut Water,
    Grape, Cherry, Lychee, Potato

    Salt - (to maintain sodium levels)
    - Any pure salt without additives, to taste

    Potential beneficial supplements - (Could help individuals in various health situations and generally safe)
    - Gelatin, Calcium from eggshell, Bone Broth or Soup (Ideally from beef/lamb), Organ meat / Offal (Ideally from beef/lamb), Raw Carrot, Bamboo Shoots, Various forms of Thyroid, Pregnenalone, Progesterone, Vitamin A, E, D, Niacin, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, Aspirin, Baking Soda, Very bright incandescent (possibly LED) lighting
  42. (to add to above)

    Potential beneficial supplements - walking, sunlight, breathing in high elevation air / high CO2 content air
  43. Looks pretty good. I will throw in some notes.

    Make sure OJ is pulp free. I think Ray Peat does 1% or 2% milk. Not sure about tea, I thought it was high in fluoride? Pineapple is high in estrogen, or was it serotonin? For optimal results for most people it seems, drop the potato.

    Could add some vitamin K in especially if taking aspirin.
  44. anybody know what Peat thinks about annatto that might be used for coloring in cheese? (orange color) Im guessing its too small of an amount to matter, but curious if he's ever talked about it
  45. annatto =beta carotene=pufa

  46. what is wrong with potato? why drop the potato Charlie?

    what is the difference between incandescent & LED? does anyone have a good resource for some light bulbs as i would like to purchase some right now.

  47. But if beta carotene is pufa,how would it be possible to eat anything besides milk bc all aproved veggies and fruit get their color from betacarotene?
  48. A few of these is what many people are using: http://www.amazon.com/Bulbrite-250BR40H ... B003P1MQDK

    It's less expensive at other places.
  49. I bought one just like that, haven't set it up yet, but its red...for some reason I thought the red was better....or is it worse? Thanks
  50. Clear is best.
  51. Remember the rationale?
  52. The red tint will let less light through. Dimming the effect.
  53. Hi! I'm new to this stuff, coming from autoimmune Paleo diet, regular Paleo. GAPS, SCD, I've done most for a time and then something doesn't work and I have a new problem or sensitivity with foods. I started the Peat guidelines a week ago. I have Hashimotos and take thyroid meds and trying to fix gut, adrenal and metabolism problems by eating correctly. I have been wheat free and except for a little rice, grain free for almost 2 years and mostly sugar and dairy free.

    My main question is what are the percents or ratios of C to P to F? Should I eat the highest percentage of protein daily or for each meal and then carbs and fats in what amts? How much fruit with meat? What would a dinner meal look like if I had 6oz grass fed beef w/gelatin...what else can I eat? It seems very hard to get any calories unless I eat lots of fat. I had the same problem with regular Paleo, lots of fats, mostly PUFAs unfortunately, because meat and veg don't give you many calories. I lost weight continually until I added in some rice.

    Guidelines of food lists are helpful but how do you eat it in balance to get the physiological results that are so compelling? Sample meals with amounts of C,F,P would be helpful and daily totals, as well. I don't know if I'm eating too much protein with not enough carbs. Should I eat fruit like cherries with a meal?

    I am keeping a food log and temp/pulse log for each meal. Seem to only be able to eat 4 times a day and getting 1400 calories is my max so far.

    Any info/resources would be greatly appreciated!

  54. Look at the ratios in a glass of milk and add more sugar if needed. Slowly though, if you are not used to eating sugar. It takes time for your body to adjust to changes in the diet.
  55. I'm using grassfed, non homogenized, pasteurized whole milk. It is 8g fats, 12 carbs, 8 protein. So, my fats and proteins should be about equal in a meal? Carbs about 1/3 - 1/2 more? How much per meal? Milk is one food, if I have a glass of milk with a meal, how much more do I eat? Oj would boost the carbs way up so then I would need to add more protein/fat? What else adds carbs to a meal besides milk and fruit? Starches are not recommended...are potatoes a carb or protein?

    Reading the info is one thing and it really makes sense, but trying to do it myself with food is very confusing. If food content and balance are super important, there should be some specific ways to know what a Peat balanced meal looks like and why. How much oj in a day and how much whole fruit for carbs? Are carbs the main source of calories? I keep ending up with fat as the main calorie source.

    Thanks for any and all info, suggestions, ideas. I'm sticking with it and trying to figure it out as I go! I appreciate all the help!
  56. You have to find out your caloric requirement using those height, weight and activity formula.
    RP once said equal amount of fat, protein and carb is fine in general. Depending on quality of food
    and metabolic condition one can make changes to that ratio. He also mentioned that for an average 2000 cal diet
    185 to 250 grams of carb, that is about 33 to 50 percent carb. You need at least 80 grams protein and for a hypothyroid person he think 80-100 grams protein is sufficient. You can increase protein once your metabolism is fixed.
    Excess tryptophan, cysteine and methionine can block thyroid. Small frequent meals of carb, protein and saturated fat
    are suggested for steady blood sugar. But most protein should be eaten during day time . Sugar and fat should be consumed after sunset. Sugar ( fruit juice, honey, table sugar) increases metabolism and free of PUFA,
    so it is preferable to have more carb instead of fat. Even butter and coconut oil have 2 percent PUFA.
    You want to limit your PUFA intake below 4 grams .Muscle meats are anti thyroid. 4-6 oz of liver per week
    and 4-8 oz of seafood are essential too.1 quart of milk = 50 grams of sugar, 1 quart of OJ = 100 grams of sugar.
  57. As I wrote earlier, I can barely get to 1400 calories and mostly protein and fats are higher. If I have oj with breakfast and lunch, I have had a lot of sugar in the day. However, to eat more carbs/sugar than protein, I have to have a source of high carbs that are not pufas.

    I appreciate your info here, because it gives me some guidelines. I don't know the H/W/Activity formula. But I am 5'5" and 120lbs. Activity is mild right now, mostly due to hypothyroid which doesn't allow for too much exercise other than some walking.

    After sunset, I usually don't eat anything, although I have added a small balanced snack at about 8:30. My morning temps are low around 97.2 and then rise to normal in the day and about 98.1-98.3 at bedtime. I guess my main concern is not getting overloads of sugar that raise my blood sugar. I was balancing my sugar fine on the paleo diet with no sugars or grains and was not hypoglycemic. I do think however that there was a stress on my adrenals and liver to keep my glucose up and it has or will take its toll on my overall health. I want to regulate my metabolism and tried doing it with burning fats. Not sure that was working or good for my metabolic system. I'm trying to switch back to carb burning using natural sugars/fruits and no pufas. Do you count gelatin, like Great Lakes as a meal protein source or just a snack? I'm not into liver yet and tend to eat more muscle meats with the extra gelatin. Any other protein suggestions? Some say organic greek yogurt is ok. What about daytime carb suggestions, besides oj? What's a typical lunch, just foods not amounts?

    This seems kind of familiar to me and I always balanced C,F,P for even blood sugar, but just using different foods. I remember back in the day, Barry Sears saying, " If you want to eat a Snickers, that's fine, just have a bowl of cottage cheese with it." I mean, I'm not for eating snickers, but this is a similar mentality of eating sugars with protein and fat, just no pufas.

  58. You need to have a good supply of glycogen( liver storage of sugar)
    to be able to sleep through the night without raising cortisol. You do no want to use
    fat or muscle tissue as energy source. It is very important that
    you eat some sugar with fat to replenish your glycogen storage before bed.
    Milk with some sugar and ice cream are good mix of fat and sugar.
    OJ is fine too. It is ok to eat gelatin before bed since it does not
    contain tryptophan.Gelatin is a great sleeping aid.
    Salt helps with sleep and regulating blood sugar.
    Adding salt to OJ or milk is helpful.
    I think you need to read RP materials in more detail .
    Here is a link to all his audio interviews
    Here is link to all his articles. Try reading his articles on " sugar". His views on sugar
    is very unique and foundation of his recommendation.
  59. Great information. Thanks! I was wondering about bedtime and read some about ice cream. Any guidelines on how much to have? A serving size is 1/2 c ice cream or 1c milk, is that adequate for the night? How close to sleep should you eat it? I've been having some like 8:30 for 10pm bedtime.

    I don't get that many carbs in the day, should snacks always contain P,F,C? Can you have a serving of fruit by itself? My gelatin is on the way so I think that will be good at bedtime, too. Is 2T ok?
  60. I like to have my bedtime snack a few minutes before I hit the sack. The closer to bedtime the better. :2cents
  61. Yeah, me too. I normally had a small glass of milk with sugar before bed. It's harder for me to limit myself to couple TB of haagen dazs. :roll: I sleep really good when I do the milk and sugar before bed.
  62. So is lunch more protein/fat than carbs/fruit or is it always more carb to about equal protein to fat? I'm having a hard time getting the portions or ratios info down. Just starting back into fruit and sugar, it all seems like a lot to me and I still worry a bit about my blood sugars running rampant from it all. So I know the amounts in relation to each other are important. Is about 185grams of carb a day and 80 protein divided out between meals and snacks about right? What about fat grams per day?

    When do you eat the raw carrot salad, by itself or with a meal?

    Does the bedtime snack count in the days totals or is it not all that strict? Why add sugar to the milk when it has higher sugar to begin with and in balance? Just curious.

    Also, does anyone here take their blood sugar on this program to see that there aren't high levels all day? Has anyone had success with improving thyroid function to the point of going off thyroid meds eventually? I guess, how do you know when the body/metabolism has healed? I am on thyroid meds and my temps/bp/pulse are good in the day...because I take the right amount of medication. If i were to lessen or stop the meds, of course, all 'hypo' breaks loose! If there is a forum area for this info let me know. Thank you!
  63. Best is to eat carrot salad in the afternoon separate from meal.
    In each meal you need to have at least equal amount of protein and carb, preferably more carb.
    Eating protein without carb will lower blood sugar and that will increase cortisol.
    I add 2 TBS of sugar to a glass of milk before bed ,because it helps me with sleep.
    You may not need any sugar at all. It is different for different people.
    But, hypothyroid people usually have problem storing sugar in liver.
    RP also suggest that you take some part of your thyroid med before bed.
    TSH goes up during sleep. You can search the forum for related threads.
    You will get a better idea about blood sugar if you read his articles on
    diabetes and sugar.
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gl ... etes.shtml
  64. On a side note...why isn't Coca-Cola a good growth medium for bacteria? It has water and sugar. Yet, I believe one can leave an opened bottle at room temperature up to several days. Is it due to the pH (as long as there is still some CO2 left)?

    Gelatin sweets are also interesting. It's gelatin, water and sugar (I believe the water content is still there). Is it due to water molecules being trapped and unusable by bacteria? PS. Haribo gummy bears have remarkably low gelatin content...it's 6.9g per 100g.
  65. hmmm interesting. No way I'll give up my Mexican coke! ;) I can't leave one opened for several days without it going flat though, and warm. Very not good. :sick:

    As for the gummy bears, I don't have a good feeling about any of the store bought ones and my favorite homemade gummies are made with coffee and sweetened condensed milk. If I'm making fruit based ones I use OJ and lemon juice so pretty safe and no other poopy ingredients, just sugar, gelatin and fruit juice.
  66. Question: What's the general thoughts on organic plain greek yogurt, either homemade or brands using grass fed milk? At about 24grams of protein per cup with carbs/fat, add some fruit, some raw honey, can that be a good breakfast with coffee, maybe 4oz oj? I'm not getting eggs that are clear of grains, they are non-gmo, but have organic corn/soy feed. They are locally pature-raised, but everyone supplements with grains. So, I don't like to eat eggs everyday. Because I'm recently switched to milk, sugar and fruit...I don't have a repetoire of choices. I'm going day by day on what should I eat? Maybe I'm over thinking it, but it seems like I'm high in fats and low in protein. I'd like some suggestions from you veterans on meal options. Thanks.
  67. Greek yogurt with fruits or honey is a very good meal.
    Calcium content of greek yogurt and cottage cheese is quite low
    compared to milk. You have to make sure you get around 1200 mg of calcium.
    You can eat up to 50 percent of your protein in gelatin form. Gelatin is really a super food.
    It is a very pro thyroid protein. I feel good benefit just from 1-2 TBS.
    Gelatin should be totally dissolved in water. For some, gelatin can cause digestive problem.
    Great lake's Hydrolysated gelatin is easier to digest. It is better to start slow.
    You need a good source of Vitamin A to make good hormones like progesterone, DHEA.
    Egg yolk is a good source but best source is Liver. For a hypothyroid person liver is always sluggish.
    You need all the liver nutrient to energize your liver. Chicken liver has milder taste but low in copper.
    Just soaking in milk over night removes most of the bad taste. I eat beef liver mostly.
    I make 10 small pieces and fried those in butter. I only eat one small piece with each meal for
    few days.
  68. Thanks, those are great suggestions. I just got my "green" gelatin today. I only had the orange one, which I'm used to, but could use to drink it in juice or cold things so I can have it more easily. I've never had a problem with it. I will try the liver in milk. I don't really like the taste, but I can handle it in small doses. Do you reheat it or cook it as you go?

    Btw, are yellow and/or purple onions allowed? I would cook them. Also wondered about garlic, cooked and raw. I put garlic in almost everything one way or another. Are powered spices ok, like onion and garlic powder? Are the green spices not ok, like oregano, basil, thyme, rosemary, bay leaves? What about cooking with fresh?
  69. Is Cottage Cheese really lower in calcium? What if you make your own 'cottage cheese' from heating up some milk and then pouring in some lemon juice to make the milk solids subtract? Does that process somehow lower calciumcontent?
  70. @jjones
    I reheat the liver for few seconds in microwave. Sometimes i just eat without reheating.
    I think it is better to cook as you go if you can afford the inconvenience.
    RP did mention in an interview that for hypothyroid people cooked onion and garlic
    can be problematic, causing gall bladder spasm. So it depends on individual.
    Garlic and onion both are rich source of soluble fiber.
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthe ... -endotoxin

    I am not sure about his views on green spices. But he thinks black pepper is unhealthy.
    You can check list of goitrogenic greens and spices.. I think in small amount spices can not be a problem

    Most calcium are lost with whey in homemade or store brought cottage cheese unless they add extra calcium.
    Always check the nutrition description.
  71. Are prunes fine too eat for vit.k reasons?
  72. Read mangos are from the same family as poison.
  73. As far as I've seen, Ray doesn't recommend mangos. I recall his talking about "mango poisoning" which he experienced once when he overdid it.
    Narouz has mentioned mangos are in the same family as poison ivy. (I think that's what you meant to say.)

    From Danny Roddy, a quote from Peat:

    "Bananas and jack-fruit are strong allergens, possibly because of their cultivation methods. Mangos, apples, and pears are allergenic to some people."
  74. Here is an interesting article on mango allergy.

    Contact Dermatitis. 2005 Jan;52(1):3-5.
    Exploring the mango-poison ivy connection: the riddle of discriminative plant dermatitis.
    Hershko K, Weinberg I, Ingber A.
    Department of Dermatology, Hadassah University Hospital, Faculty of Medicine Hebrew University, Jerusalem 91120, Israel.

    A relationship between sensitivity to poison oak or poison ivy and mango dermatitis has been suggested by previous publications. The observation that acute allergic contact dermatitis can arise on first exposure to mango in patients who have been sensitized beforehand by contact with other urushiol-containing plants has been documented previously. We report 17 American patients employed in mango picking at a summer camp in Israel, who developed a rash of varying severity. All patients were either in contact with poison ivy/oak in the past or lived in areas where these plants are endemic. None recalled previous contact with mango. In contrast, none of their Israeli companions who had never been exposed to poison ivy/oak developed mango dermatitis. These observations suggest that individuals with known history of poison ivy/oak allergy, or those residing in area where these plants are common, may develop allergic contact dermatitis from mango on first exposure. We hypothesize that previous oral exposure to urushiol in the local Israeli population might establish immune tolerance to these plants.
  75. Googling calcium I find:

    1 cup milk 300mg
    1 cup cottage cheese 130mg
    1 cup yogurt 450mg

    I would imagine the cottage cheese is less Ca per cup since there is more air between curds.
  76. Nutritionally Cottage Cheese is lot like strained yogurt, where liquid whey part is removed.
    Lot of calcium is lost with the liquid. Calcium content of yogurt looks bit high, they probably
    have made yogurt with reduced milk, that would increase concentration of calcium.
    13 grams protein per 8 oz has 480 mg. But one cup of whole milk has 8 grams of protein and
    275 mg of calcium. I used nutritiondata.com .
  77. Yogurt, especially greek, is more condensed than cottage cheese. Yes, they both have whey removed. Yes, that part of the Ca would be removed.

    Peat says cottage cheese can be added to ice cream for extra protein.
    I use Daisy 2%. I buy the larger carton and rinse it ahead of time.

    Here is my hubs' dinner:
    Amounts vary-
    HD vanilla
    Cot cheese
    2% gk yogurt
    oj jello
    canned peaches

    I do not use ice cream and get most of my fat early in the day. Fat early is contrary to the ideal but works better for me so far. Keeps hunger at bay and, importantly, keeps reflux away when I do fat earlier. And, thank you, narouz, keeping my fat lower will help my liver get happy again.
  78. Thank you everybody for so much information. It will take me a while understand it all. Is there a brand of gelatine that I have to buy and how do I take it - not something I have ever eaten. Not a huge meat eater either so the broth sounds like a better option for me. Does anyone have a recipe for this.
  79. Great Lakes Gelatin is the one a lot of people use.
  80. This is great! Thanks for finding the time to put all this together.
  81. Tahini

    Tahini is made from sesame seed and is high in PUFA.
    One ounce, about two tablespoons has 5.9 grams of it.
    (According to http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut ... cts/3154/2)

    By comparison, an ounce of avocado, listed in the seriously ungood column, has less than 1/2 gram of PUFA.

    Admittedly you are likely to eat more avocado at one sitting, twelve ounces would be about a cup and a half (that's quit a lot, probably two servings) would equal the PUFA in two ounces of tahini and two ounces of tahini is about a serving .... so probably a serving of avocado (~6oz) would end up providing half the PUFA of the tahini. Anyway...

    I love them both but am avoiding them.
  82. Talking about tahini, I looked at some vacation pictures of a friend in Turkey. One was shots of a meal. Every single item, from appetizer to desert, involved loads of pufa. It was considered local and good quality food. I don't know if its representative, but in comparison a Western fast food chain meal seemed healthy: only a few items like fries are pufa fried...
  83. So, can I eat fruits separately? Can I mix melons with other fruits? Is it good to mix whole milk, orange juice, fruits, root veggies? Can I drink milk separately?
  84. Welcome MayaNayman :welcome

    You decide what you can eat. :)

    In general, I think Peat favours eating mixed meals that contain carbohydrate, protein, and a little fat.
    He would recommend balancing protein with enough sugar to prevent blood sugars dipping and triggering reactive stress hormones. A little fat (saturated), helps absorb nutrients from food. He has said that 'food combining' diets (which involve not combining foods) don't absorb and digest as well as mixed meals. I haven't read anything from him specifically about eating melon with or without other fruits.
    For those of us who have trouble keeping blood sugar stable through the day, he recommends several small meals, rather than one or two large ones. If eating starchy foods, he recommends a having something sweet too. If you eat a lot of carbs in one go, it's good to have some protein with it too.

    So as long as you don't personally react badly to it, mixing whole milk, orange juice, fruits, and root veggies should fit in with this. Good to aim for at least 80g protein/day, spread through the day - many people do better with more than this. I think Peat has said it's OK to drink orange juice by itself between meals; I expect other fruit by itself or with milk or cheese would be OK too as a snack between meals, as long as it agrees with you. If you feel good with this, that's a good sign. If not, it might take some tweaking to suit you, eg proportions, salt.
  85. Why aren't tubers, roots, shoots and fruit-vegetables included in the image?

  86. thank you

    I understand things visually, and that picture really helped.

  87. are we looking at the same image ? they are
  88. Yea. Like 3. :roll:
  89. Exerpt:
    "Regarding bacon, Peat says, “The nitrate isn't likely to be a problem if you eat it with orange juice. I fry the bacon to remove some of the fat, and then refry it in coconut oil, to remove most of the PUFA.”

    Trying to go deeply in RP diet, I read this above.
    Right but not like this. I explain.
    acid L-ascorbic prevents nitrates from upgrading into nitrites and nitrosamines. Ok.
    But not when there are 10 % fat in the meal.
    Rather than inhibiting the production of nitrosamines, it boosts it between 8 and 140 fold.
    Comment: If you don't do that with smoked salmon, it won't be too damaging. Take 4 mg astaxanthin the meal before, and it will neutralize the processus.

    why vitamin C prevents the reaction of nitric acid with amines:
    Add lemon juice (or drink water with a pinch of ascorbic acid) is a good idea since the ascorbic acid will react with nitrites to give a NO molecule (nitrite + acid => Nitric Oxide).
    No problems here. There are no amines.

    But if you eat fat at the same time, nitric oxide may interact with fat and then react with oxygen to form nitrosamines, which will in turn generate toxic chemical derivatives ...
    Now in the salmon you have amines (meat = amino acids) + fat.
    This is not a good idea to add here the lemon juice on it or to drink a fruit juice with orange.
  90. Hello, I've recently registered to join. I'm a mother of five with four grandchildren and have been searching for answers to why we aren't as robust as previous generations in my family. In answer to the amino acid post, the gastroenterologist gave me a hydrolysed protein baby formula to try with digestive enzymes . Since adding the formula I've noticed an overall improvement as in hair, also tolerance to dairy, and neurotransmitter wise.I didn't take it at first as it does have PUFA but since it's only a scoop I took it in desperation one day.It seems to be having a positive effect for me.Reading everything with interest as it seems to be " the missing link". Ray Peats style is similar to my Dads who is 98 this year & never took notice of my previous " health tips " ( supplements, low fat, no salt or sugar etc) over the years thank goodness.
  91. :welcome aussiedownunder.
  92. I personally believe refined white corn flour is better than the reccomended masa harina

    refining does remove the PUFA, phytic acid, and fibre, and I feel it digests easier than masa harina, which is equivalent to the whole grain corn

    It is leterally a blob of starch and very safe, with no gluten,

    masa just feels a bit more difficult in the body
  93. Hi.what is RP advice for weight loss

  94. What is the difference between pork and beef gelatin,is there any value from organic orngrass fed gelatin!
  95. The hulls are removed. See: What is Masa Harina?
  96. Bump!