Ray Peat Carrot Salad

pboy

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just curious, do you guys peel the carrot? the peel can be quite irritating...I don't really like raw carrots myself...too tough, I don't like the feeling of swallowing something that feels like a foreign object, but I think peeling might make a difference if you guys don't already
 

Mittir

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Charcoal and Appendicitis

Someone at peatarian posted a case-study of high dose charcoal and appendicits.
They used charcoal to treat poisoning. It is not clear to me if poison caused it or charcoal.
They found charcoal in appendix. I remember someone asked RP if undigested food
or seeds can get stuck in appendix ,causing inflammation. I do not remember his response.

J Toxicol Clin Toxicol. 2003;41(1):71-3.
Multiple dose-activated charcoal as a cause of acute appendicitis.
Eroglu A1, Kucuktulu U, Erciyes N, Turgutalp H.
Author information
Abstract
We presented a case of a 55-year-old woman who intentionally ingested an unknown amount of carbosulfan, a carbamate insecticide. On admission, her clinical findings were coma, pinpoint pupils, hypersalivation, respiratory failure, bradycardia, and hypotension. Hertrachea was intubated after suction of secretions, and atropine was administered intravenously. After gastric lavage, multiple doses of activated charcoal were instilled through the nasogastric tube over five days (total doses of 840 g). On the fourteenth day, she developed right-lower quadrant abdominal pain, anorexia, nausea, and vomiting, and she underwent an appendectomy. On pathologic examination of the specimen, particles of activated charcoal were seen within the dilated part of the appendiculer lumen. The patient was discharged from the hospital after antidepressant therapy at the psychiatry clinic. This case documents that multiple doses of activated charcoal may be associated with acute appendicitis.
PMID: 12645971

Here is another case-study.

Hum Exp Toxicol. 1991 Sep;10(5):385-6.
Rectal ulcer with massive haemorrhage due to activated charcoal treatment in oral organophosphate poisoning.
Mizutani T1, Naito H, Oohashi N.
Author information
Abstract
A 42-year-old woman who had ingested a large amount of fenitrothion emulsion was admitted and treated. Treatments consisted of mechanical ventilation, intravenous administration of atropine and pralidoxime and repeated injection of activated charcoal with magnesium sulphate via a nasogastric tube. The patient developed massive rectal bleeding just after she had passed several hard masses of charcoal on the 10th day. Surgical haemostasis of the rectal ulcer was needed to control the haemorrhage.

Here is another study based 576 cases. They found 7 percent with adverse reactions,
and these are not severe.

Med Clin (Barc). 2010 Jul 17;135(6):243-9. doi: 10.1016/j.medcli.2009.10.053. Epub 2010 May 27.
[Use of activated charcoal in acute poisonings: clinical safety and factors associated with adverse reactions in 575 cases].
[Article in Spanish]
Amigó M1, Nogué S, Miró O.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE:
To identify the pattern of use of activated charcoal in the treatment of poisonings, and to evaluate the prevalence and severity of adverse reactions and define the risk factors associated with them.
PATIENTS AND METHOD:
Observational, prospective 7-year study. Patients receiving activated charcoal for gut decontamination were included. Epidemiological, toxicological, therapeutic and evolutionary variables were studied. The dependent variable was the appearance of secondary effects related to the use of charcoal.
RESULTS:
A total of 575 patients were included. The mean age was 37.8 (14.8) years and 65.7% were women. Activated charcoal was administered orally in 88% of the patients and by gastric tube after lavage in 12%, and 2.4% of patients received charcoal before hospital arrival. Adverse reactions occurred in 41 cases (7.1%) and included nausea or vomiting (36 patients), bronchoaspiration (6 patients) and pneumonia (2 patients). Spontaneous vomiting before administration of charcoal (p < 0.001), pre-hospital administration of charcoal (p < 0.05), repeated doses (p < 0.01) and the need for symptomatic measures to treat intoxicated patients (p < 0.05) were independent risk factors for adverse reactions, whereas age ≥ 40 years (p < 0.05) and intoxication with benzodiazepines (p < 0.01) were independently associated with a smaller risk of adverse reactions. The mean emergency department stay was 10.2 (18.6) hours, and was significantly longer (p < 0.05) in patients suffering adverse reactions. A total of 75.4% of patients were discharged to home, 20.5% required psychiatric admission and 3.9% were admitted due to the clinical consequences of the poisoning. The prevalence of non-psychiatric admission to general hospital or intensive care was greater in patients suffering adverse reactions. No patient died.
CONCLUSIONS:
Adverse reactions to charcoal are infrequent and rarely severe, but are associated with a greater emergency department stay and a trend to greater hospital admission. Predisposing factors are vomiting before administration of charcoal and administration of repeated doses. Age ≥ 40 years and ingestion of benzodiazepines are protective factors.
Copyright © 2009 Elsevier España, S.L. All rights reserved.
 

SQu

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Jan 3, 2014
Messages
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Oh dear! I feel so good on it, in fact my health really turned the corner. I was planning to take it every second day till infinity! I hope one of our good study readers can clear this up. The first case for instance, it's nearly a kilo over two weeks to what looks like a very ill woman.
Please don't tell me I'm Condemned to Carrot :shock:
 

pboy

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lol, well...charcoal is pretty water soluble and doesn't stain...so I wouldn't suspect it ever lodging anywhere and not being able to come out on its own. It does bind to acids, so if you had a huge amount of bacteria (basically non eliminated food) or tannins...the things that stain your teeth, in your GI the charcoal might become more sludgy, but I think it would take a lot to actually cause an impaction. I don't have experience with consuming it so im not sure...im always a bit weary of swallowing non food items. However...lots of cultures have consumed ash, and it doesn't have any odor or bad taste or smell or anything, so I think its probably neutral in effect. Another thing too is I think it binds water, like a whole lot...youll notice of you put it on your skin or lips itll dry them out really fast...so probably just taking a really small amount would be best or youd slow down GI flow, and maybe interfere with digestion/absorption of other food

on a side note also, Peat recommends the carrot for 2 reasons, the first is that it binds biliary waste (like estrogen) and helps facilitate them out. The second is because its antibacterial properties. You can actually use any fiber to perform the first utility...and you don't really need to be consuming antibacterial foods often, or at all once youre healthy. So just for basic GI maintenance, you can use any gentle fiber...it doesn't have to be a raw carrot, and you don't need much...even a few grams of fiber up to like 10-12g is plenty. If you have too much fiber it can be uncomfortable just due to the volume, so I would say don't eat more than 13-15grams a day
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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@pboy

I believe you meant charcoal is water insoluble.

RP has mentioned that any kind of fiber can lower estrogen, but RP warns against the kind of
fiber that are estrogenic, like lignins. When i do not feel like eating carrot salad
i simply eat other type of no-estrogenic fibers in fruits and vegetable and add
coconut oil. Coconut oil adds the antibacterial property of raw carrot and bamboo
shoots. Even adding coconut oil to starchy food helps to kill bacteria when the
undigested starch reaches bacterial zone.
 

SQu

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Jan 3, 2014
Messages
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I'm not hating the smaller quantity of well rinsed carrot quite as much, or not so far anyway!
 

Amazoniac

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Posted somewhere else but now posting here.

Tweak the carrot salad:
Grated carrots (without rinsing) with skin
Coconut Oil (unrefined)
ACV
Salt
Turmeric (ground)
Ginger (grated)
Dried herbs (such as Oregano or Rosemary)

One interesting to note is that all of this ingredients last a very long time if properly stored due to their powerful antibiotic properties. I know some of them deviate from Dr Peat guidelines but, in my opinion, they improve it even more.
 

TMoney

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gretchen said:
I may have already asked this, but just to clarify, does the carrot need to be grated to get the full effect?

i have this question as well
 

Amazoniac

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Not Uganda
What I've noticed is that in Asian cuisines they usually cut the carrots length-wise. Almost never rounded. This way it gives a different texture (and better). I think this preparation goes along with Ray Peat's recommendation to preserve its fibrous structure.
All in all, it's going to be chewed anyway, so it shouldn't matter that much..
 

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narouz

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Re: Charcoal and Appendicitis

Mittir said:
Someone at peatarian posted a case-study of high dose charcoal and appendicits.
They used charcoal to treat poisoning. It is not clear to me if poison caused it or charcoal.
They found charcoal in appendix. I remember someone asked RP if undigested food
or seeds can get stuck in appendix ,causing inflammation. I do not remember his response.

J Toxicol Clin Toxicol. 2003;41(1):71-3.
Multiple dose-activated charcoal as a cause of acute appendicitis.
Eroglu A1, Kucuktulu U, Erciyes N, Turgutalp H.
Author information
Abstract
We presented a case of a 55-year-old woman who intentionally ingested an unknown amount of carbosulfan, a carbamate insecticide. On admission, her clinical findings were coma, pinpoint pupils, hypersalivation, respiratory failure, bradycardia, and hypotension. Hertrachea was intubated after suction of secretions, and atropine was administered intravenously. After gastric lavage, multiple doses of activated charcoal were instilled through the nasogastric tube over five days (total doses of 840 g). On the fourteenth day, she developed right-lower quadrant abdominal pain, anorexia, nausea, and vomiting, and she underwent an appendectomy. On pathologic examination of the specimen, particles of activated charcoal were seen within the dilated part of the appendiculer lumen. The patient was discharged from the hospital after antidepressant therapy at the psychiatry clinic. This case documents that multiple doses of activated charcoal may be associated with acute appendicitis.
PMID: 12645971

Here is another case-study.

Hum Exp Toxicol. 1991 Sep;10(5):385-6.
Rectal ulcer with massive haemorrhage due to activated charcoal treatment in oral organophosphate poisoning.
Mizutani T1, Naito H, Oohashi N.
Author information
Abstract
A 42-year-old woman who had ingested a large amount of fenitrothion emulsion was admitted and treated. Treatments consisted of mechanical ventilation, intravenous administration of atropine and pralidoxime and repeated injection of activated charcoal with magnesium sulphate via a nasogastric tube. The patient developed massive rectal bleeding just after she had passed several hard masses of charcoal on the 10th day. Surgical haemostasis of the rectal ulcer was needed to control the haemorrhage.

Here is another study based 576 cases. They found 7 percent with adverse reactions,
and these are not severe.

Med Clin (Barc). 2010 Jul 17;135(6):243-9. doi: 10.1016/j.medcli.2009.10.053. Epub 2010 May 27.
[Use of activated charcoal in acute poisonings: clinical safety and factors associated with adverse reactions in 575 cases].
[Article in Spanish]
Amigó M1, Nogué S, Miró O.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE:
To identify the pattern of use of activated charcoal in the treatment of poisonings, and to evaluate the prevalence and severity of adverse reactions and define the risk factors associated with them.
PATIENTS AND METHOD:
Observational, prospective 7-year study. Patients receiving activated charcoal for gut decontamination were included. Epidemiological, toxicological, therapeutic and evolutionary variables were studied. The dependent variable was the appearance of secondary effects related to the use of charcoal.
RESULTS:
A total of 575 patients were included. The mean age was 37.8 (14.8) years and 65.7% were women. Activated charcoal was administered orally in 88% of the patients and by gastric tube after lavage in 12%, and 2.4% of patients received charcoal before hospital arrival. Adverse reactions occurred in 41 cases (7.1%) and included nausea or vomiting (36 patients), bronchoaspiration (6 patients) and pneumonia (2 patients). Spontaneous vomiting before administration of charcoal (p < 0.001), pre-hospital administration of charcoal (p < 0.05), repeated doses (p < 0.01) and the need for symptomatic measures to treat intoxicated patients (p < 0.05) were independent risk factors for adverse reactions, whereas age ≥ 40 years (p < 0.05) and intoxication with benzodiazepines (p < 0.01) were independently associated with a smaller risk of adverse reactions. The mean emergency department stay was 10.2 (18.6) hours, and was significantly longer (p < 0.05) in patients suffering adverse reactions. A total of 75.4% of patients were discharged to home, 20.5% required psychiatric admission and 3.9% were admitted due to the clinical consequences of the poisoning. The prevalence of non-psychiatric admission to general hospital or intensive care was greater in patients suffering adverse reactions. No patient died.
CONCLUSIONS:
Adverse reactions to charcoal are infrequent and rarely severe, but are associated with a greater emergency department stay and a trend to greater hospital admission. Predisposing factors are vomiting before administration of charcoal and administration of repeated doses. Age ≥ 40 years and ingestion of benzodiazepines are protective factors.
Copyright © 2009 Elsevier España, S.L. All rights reserved.

I did have an appendicitis/appendectomy,
but that was before I discovered charcoal.
This was interesting, though--about the appendix and charcoal.
 

narouz

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I posted this a while back
after I heard Peat say in an interview that...

http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5043&p=58750&hilit=perfect+carrot#p58750

...a food processor would be the ideal way to grate the carrot.

He said the blade that
cuts the carrot into fine angel-hair is perfect.
It sortuv casts the broadest net for endotoxin.

This from the new KMUD Herb Doctors.
I have a food processor and I think I have that kind of "blade"...!

I think, to be perfect,
you'd need to first cut the carrot into a length that would fit into your machine
so that the blade cuts the carrot lengthwise....
 

narouz

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Jul 22, 2012
Messages
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Amazoniac said:
http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5043&p=59330&hilit=peeler#p59330

You mean the hand peeler, Amazon?
Yeah, sure, and that looks fine.
But if you have the kind of machine/blade Peat referred to in the interview--
the Angel Hair cutter--
I think that would produce an even more finely longitudinal strand....
 

pboy

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Jan 22, 2013
Messages
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I think ray assumes people aren't going to chew it that much, that's why he says to cut it like that, so naturally theres more surface area exposed to bind things out. if you chewed it to a liquid it might be better but also might be less effective cause then..it would kind of turn back into a ball once the liquid was sqeezed out of it without air space (surface area) in the middle. All in all it probably doesn't make that much of a difference. I think peeling the carrot is the biggest thing, cause the skin has tannins and irritants, the inside has some allergens but apparently these are what give it the antimicrobial property (I think they are proteolytic enzymes). Raw carrots would give me that itchy burny mouth throat ears thing, like how some berry style fruits and bananas do, so I don't eat them. I realize that is anti microbial part but I somehow think offending ones self is never the answer. Ive also found that fiber itself often hurts digestion more than it helps, even elimination...unless the thing is so irritating that it rushes out, usually with liquid or some kind of non formed way...in which case it basically ruins that day because of all the gastric stirring up and probably estrogen produced therein. I see the potential in a carrot but it just seems to me like a waste of time and ATP of the jaw. Probly the best way is just cut it small, then chew it but don't trip about chewing to a full liquid, just enough to where its pretty chewed up
 

narouz

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Of course I am just making much of this Perfect Peat Carrot thing
because it's kinda funny to me.
On the other hand,
Peat did really talk about that Angel Hair cutter/machine thing,
and the carrot thing is one of those simple Peat basics that often gets lost
in all the fancy ondansetron, bromocriptine, tianeptine, cyproheptadine
let's-get-to-Peat Nirvana-in-a-hurry talk.

I too have my problems with the raw carrot.
Oddly, I used to really like them in a salad before my Peat discovery.
Like in my primal/paleo era, with all that meat,
seems like carrots tasted/felt balancing somehow.

But now, on the Peat diet, and experiencing some difficulties on it,
the carrot tastes/feels kinda repulsive...just instinctively.
Especially if I add the vinegar to it.
It feels like my gut is already too acidic or something,
and that acidy vinegar and the fibrous carrot just are very unappetizing.
I think I tried to force the issue when I first ran into that repulsion
and it did cause diarrhea....

(I'm hoping this leads into another involved discussion of poop and all of its many forms. :D )
 

janus

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narouz said:
But now, on the Peat diet, and experiencing some difficulties on it,
the carrot tastes/feels kinda repulsive...just instinctively.
Especially if I add the vinegar to it.
It feels like my gut is already too acidic or something,
and that acidy vinegar and the fibrous carrot just are very unappetizing.
I think I tried to force the issue when I first ran into that repulsion
and it did cause diarrhea....

(I'm hoping this leads into another involved discussion of poop and all of its many forms. :D )

I prefer parsnips or bamboo shoots. All taste, no carotene.
 

Amazoniac

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It seems unfair to point carotenes as villains. Even though there are differences between cultures, but most of them agree that bright and deep colored fats are attractive and are a great indicator of healthfulness of the source. An example would be egg yolks: a pale yolk is most of the time a sign of poor diet or sick bird/animal. The carotene in animal's diet gives their fat that vivid coloration, whether they came from plant foods or from animal products that ate them. The problem might be - as always - excess of it..
 

narouz

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Amazoniac said:
It seems unfair to point carotenes as villains. Even though there are differences between cultures, but most of them agree that bright and deep colored fats are attractive and are a great indicator of healthfulness of the source. An example would be egg yolks: a pale yolk is most of the time a sign of poor diet or sick bird/animal. The carotene in animal's diet gives their fat that vivid coloration, whether they came from plant foods or from animal products that ate them. The problem might be - as always - excess of it..

Well, Peat does frequently mention carotene as a potential problem.
First thing to bear in mind with this
is that Peat thinks most (or at least a lot of) people
living in modern cultures
have hypothyroid issues.
Peat says carotene can act like PUFA,
inhibiting the thyroid and the metabolism.
For those reasons somebody relying upon, say, yams/sweet potatoes as a big part of their diet
could get into trouble...
 

janus

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Amazoniac said:
It seems unfair to point carotenes as villains. Even though there are differences between cultures, but most of them agree that bright and deep colored fats are attractive and are a great indicator of healthfulness of the source. An example would be egg yolks: a pale yolk is most of the time a sign of poor diet or sick bird/animal. The carotene in animal's diet gives their fat that vivid coloration, whether they came from plant foods or from animal products that ate them. The problem might be - as always - excess of it..

Food for thought: apparently, goats and sheep retain much less carotene than cattle, even on a diet of greens.
 

SQu

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After a couple of weeks, even rinsing the grated carrot, I go off it and cannot face it for a while. An inevitable aversion builds up. A slightly soapy taste. This time it's been 5 weeks +. The carotene explanation seems to fit.
 

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