Ray Peat Agreeing About The Fattening Effect Of Whole Milk And Certain Cheeses

[theLaw]

I'm still curious as to why Ray Peat only mentions "if you're trying to lose weight" for why he doesn't recommend whole milk and not any other health repercussions.

It's weird to me that he seems to lead with "If you're trying to lose weight..." on those KMUD interviews even though the hosts don't even ask the question regarding trying to lose weight. Who cares about losing weight unless you're obese and it's affecting your quality of life? Does Peat believe extra weight is damaging to the body? This is what I was trying to get at with my original question.

It would seem to me, if you are eating a diet based on Peat's suggestions, you would probably have a very low caloric intake of total fat anyway, even on whole milk. So why does he NOT recommend whole milk? Is this recommendation directed ONLY to people trying to lose weight (and therefore taken out of context when people say whole milk is not Peaty), or is Peat indirectly suggesting people should try to adopt a low fat diet overall as much as a possible? I mentioned the PUFA issue with consuming whole milk, but I haven't seen Peat directly talk about the concern of high PUFA with whole milk.

Sounds like he's referring to getting rid of stored pufa with a low-fat diet.

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

1/2 gallon if milk = 63G of fat (561 calories) = 18% of a 3000 calorie diet or 28% of a 2000 calorie diet.

Haidut suggests to lower fat intake to around 10% of calories to purge pufa.

Also, fat intake needed to sustain healthy T levels (posted on another pufa-related thread) was around 15G per 1000 calories, which is roughly 10% of calories using MCT oil.

 

[teds]

I've been thinking about milk in general recently and, like some others, I've been through a paleo transition- which totally buggered me up- and now I'm working back to health and trying to figure out what works for my body. While I DO have fat to loose (I guess the why of that IS debatable.. I'm not obese etc) but what gets me wondering is how traditional tribes etc would have consumed milk. Milk from yaks, sheep, goats, cows maybe.. they certainly weren't skimming off the fat.. or were they?

 

[jitsmonkey]

I've been thinking about milk in general recently and, like some others, I've been through a paleo transition- which totally buggered me up- and now I'm working back to health and trying to figure out what works for my body. While I DO have fat to loose (I guess the why of that IS debatable.. I'm not obese etc) but what gets me wondering is how traditional tribes etc would have consumed milk. Milk from yaks, sheep, goats, cows maybe.. they certainly weren't skimming off the fat.. or were they?

Context is everything
traditional tribes live in a radically different time/space context than you do.
I don't see how what they do or any historically irrelevant character would matter.
Irrelevant meaning how they lived, what they did, where they lived doesn't resemble your in any way
You need the nutrition you need for the context you're alive in.
That comes through careful measure not narrative

 

[teds]

so it's not the fat content in the context in which we live? You're suggesting (and I'm not necessarily disagreeing) that if I was drinking whole milk, let's say, 1000 years ago.. or even 500 years ago, that it wouldn't be fattening but today, due to factors such as pollution (light, air, population etc) that milk is fattening... is that the context to which you refer?

 

[teds]

Context is everything
traditional tribes live in a radically different time/space context than you do.
I don't see how what they do or any historically irrelevant character would matter.
Irrelevant meaning how they lived, what they did, where they lived doesn't resemble your in any way
You need the nutrition you need for the context you're alive in.
That comes through careful measure not narrative

so it's not the fat content in the context in which we live? You're suggesting (and I'm not necessarily disagreeing) that if I was drinking whole milk, let's say, 1000 years ago.. or even 500 years ago, that it wouldn't be fattening but today, due to factors such as pollution (light, air, population etc) that milk is fattening... is that the context to which you refer?

 

[jitsmonkey]

so it's not the fat content in the context in which we live? You're suggesting (and I'm not necessarily disagreeing) that if I was drinking whole milk, let's say, 1000 years ago.. or even 500 years ago, that it wouldn't be fattening but today, due to factors such as pollution (light, air, population etc) that milk is fattening... is that the context to which you refer?

I'd go as far as to say the milk you would have drank 1000 years ago wouldn't resemble the milk you drink today.
There's not anything about the context that's the same other than the Astronomical rules/forces that still apply
different animals, different husbandry, different geography, different stressors on both animal and human. Even the reasons for the potential fatness / weight gain wouldn't be the same
there is virtually NOTHING contextually similar between now and your example.

 

[schultz]

Who cares about losing weight unless you're obese and it's affecting your quality of life?

I think a lot of people complain about gaining weight when they start eating the way Ray recommends. Perhaps since so many people complain about this he automatically explains that whole milk might cause you to gain excess bodyfat. It might go hand in hand with him recommending 2 quarts+ of milk per day.

but what gets me wondering is how traditional tribes etc would have consumed milk. Milk from yaks, sheep, goats, cows maybe.. they certainly weren't skimming off the fat.. or were they?

I made the argument a long time ago on this forum that historically people may have even consumed more fat from dairy than whole milk supplies. When you have livestock you can end up with a lot of milk. Good ways of preserving the milk tend to concentrate the fat (butter, cheese). I doubt people would have skimmed the milk and thrown away the fat. Historically calories have always been important though, whereas today they are abundant. Ray has mentioned if you work hard throughout the day you may need the extra calories whole milk provides.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I'd go as far as to say the milk you would have drank 1000 years ago wouldn't resemble the milk you drink today.
There's not anything about the context that's the same other than the Astronomical rules/forces that still apply
different animals, different husbandry, different geography, different stressors on both animal and human. Even the reasons for the potential fatness / weight gain wouldn't be the same
there is virtually NOTHING contextually similar between now and your example.

I want to add that the truth is I have no clue whatsoever.

Its just that that contextual understanding makes sense to me
whereas the narrative and presumption about who did what when and why they did it seems borderline silly.
(it should be noted there was a time the who did what when thing seemed an incredibly rational conclusion to me, so there's that too ;-)

 

[teds]

I want to add that the truth is I have no clue whatsoever.

Its just that that contextual understanding makes sense to me
whereas the narrative and presumption about who did what when and why they did it seems borderline silly.
(it should be noted there was a time the who did what when thing seemed an incredibly rational conclusion to me, so there's that too ;-)

sorry- i wasn't trying to be silly.. but thanks for your input. :)

 

[jitsmonkey]

sorry- i wasn't trying to be silly.. but thanks for your input. :)

I try to be as silly as possible as often as possible
no worries at all I took no offense at all
definitely no apology needed.