Ray Peat Agreeing About The Fattening Effect Of Whole Milk And Certain Cheeses

L

lollipop

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@Westside PUFAs if a person drinks 12 oz of 2% milk, and has 1 tablespoon butter, and 2 oz a day of ice cream, and random occasional (not daily) few ounces of cheddar cheese, would you consider this high fat and dangerous? While eating otherwise Peaty fruits, 8 oz fresh OJ, 4-6 oz muscle meats, eggs, potatoes, mushrooms, raw carrot, variety of more peaty type of veggies (zucchini, bell peppers, etc)?
 

Westside PUFAs

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@Westside PUFAs if a person drinks 12 oz of 2% milk, and has 1 tablespoon butter, and 2 oz a day of ice cream, and random occasional (not daily) few ounces of cheddar cheese, would you consider this high fat and dangerous? While eating otherwise Peaty fruits, 8 oz fresh OJ, 4-6 oz muscle meats, eggs, potatoes, mushrooms, raw carrot, variety of more peaty type of veggies (zucchini, bell peppers, etc)?

As long as they are happy with their amount of body fat, their blood sugar is always balanced, they can sleep at least 6 hours without waking up and their mood is happy then it should be fine.

.
 
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L

lollipop

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As long as they are happy with their amount of body fat, their blood sugar is always balanced, they can sleep at least 6 hours without waking up, and their mood is happy then it should be fine.
Thanks for weighing in.
 

EIRE24

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As long as they are happy with their amount of body fat, their blood sugar is always balanced, they can sleep at least 6 hours without waking up and their mood is happy then it should be fine.

.
I'm guessing the sleeping can be resolved by simply eating more carb calories and calories over all in general!?
 

amethyst

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Personally, I think the moral of the food story should be, that nothing is off limits or considered "bad" such as saturated fat ala milk, aged cheeses and butter, coconut oil. Or, sugar via fruits, honey and occasionally, refined sugar. In moderation. And carbs, via starches like rice and potatoes and even grains. Yes, some grains. If you can handle it. That's not peaty. So what? Is it his eating program you are following or your own?. It's your body. Make the best of it by eating as nutritiously as you can. I love bagels but they don't love me. They bind me up. And there isn't any nutrition in them. Again, everything taken in moderation. Eating too much of anything is going to make your body work too hard and the excess food you eat will not have any where to go but be deposited in and on various parts of your body. So whatever you eat, overeating it is not going to help you. And neither is starving yourself. Food should be tasty. And enjoyable. Not torturous. If I want to have a magic cookie bar at Christmas, I am going to damn well enjoy it and savor every bite. It's a cookie orgasm for sure. If you haven't experienced a magic cookie bar, well....do yourself a favor and try it.
 

Tarmander

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My personal strategy has changed around milk over time. When I first got into Peat I was getting milk everyday, and large amounts. I always felt heavy, unless I did skim or 1% which gave me digestive distress.

What I find works best for me is eating rice, fruit, some meat, all low fat. But every three or four days, I will have a sip of whole goat milk and it will taste insanely good. I usually have a cup or so, and it tastes quenching. Like a glass of water in a desert good. I use that as an indication of when to eat milk and milk fats and I am happy with it.
 

G Forrest

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The reason Ray Peat does NOT recommend whole milk because it is fattening, correct? For me personally, I have never had a problem with excess weight, in fact I have a hard time putting on the weight. When asked on one of the KMUD of why not whole milk, he just kind of chuckled and said "well you'll get fat." There's also the quote: "“I have heard from several people that they think I recommend drinking whole milk, which I don't, because the amount of fat in whole milk is very likely to be fattening". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read or heard Peat say specifically avoid whole milk "to keep PUFA low", but maybe that's assumed.

As far as the PUFA content in whole milk, plugging in 4 cups of whole milk in cronometer yields 1.9 grams of PUFA. If one is trying to maintain less than 4 grams of PUFA per day, it would be still be possible to keep under this threshold. However if one were consuming upwards of a gallon of milk a day (like Peat has mentioned), you're now at 7.6 grams of PUFA, which is quite a bit, so in this instance low fat milk is more ideal.

So it seems to me excess PUFA is the main reason to use lowfat milk in place of whole milk from a health perspective. I mean is there any harm in having some extra fat, other than western ideals of body image and vanity reasons? Has Ray Peat discussed keeping fat calories low for any other reason (obvioudly PUFA low), but is excess fat in the diet damaging to the body assuming it's SFA?

The problem with low fat milk is that the FDA in the US requires vitamin A and D additives, which Peat has mentioned can be allergenic.

So what is the lesser of two evils? Whole milk, which can be fattening and excess PUFA in very large quantities, or low fat milk with the added vitamins potentially causing allergic reactions?

(Sorry if this topic has been covered ad nauseam, I just couldn't find the above issue addressed specifically)
 
L

lollipop

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So what is the lesser of two evils? Whole milk, which can be fattening and excess PUFA in very large quantities, or low fat milk with the added vitamins potentially causing allergic reactions?
Great question and I have seen it discussed before with highly variable responses with great logic on both sides. My conclusion over the last few years? Experiment and see what works best for you. Every person’s system seems to be different. Personally, I settled in between your question: 2% unhomogenized milk with no added vitamins.
 

G Forrest

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Great question and I have seen it discussed before with highly variable responses with great logic on both sides. My conclusion over the last few years? Experiment and see what works best for you. Every person’s system seems to be different. Personally, I settled in between your question: 2% unhomogenized milk with no added vitamins.

Thanks. Where are you able to find 2% with no added vitamins? Even the milk from local dairies sold at the local health food store around here (TN) seem to have the vitamins added.
 
L

lollipop

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Thanks. Where are you able to find 2% with no added vitamins? Even the milk from local dairies sold at the local health food store around here (TN) seem to have the vitamins added.
Lazy Meadow grass fed unhomogenized milk. I think from Atlanta.
 

G Forrest

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Also in Texas there is Mill King which is a 1% without vitamins also unhomogenized.
Thanks! I'll see if I can find that around here. I also use the Bob's Red Mills powdered non-fat milk, which doesn't list vitamin A or D in the ingredients, so I'm assuming it doesn't have them??
 
L

lollipop

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Thanks! I'll see if I can find that around here. I also use the Bob's Red Mills powdered non-fat milk, which doesn't list vitamin A or D in the ingredients, so I'm assuming it doesn't have them??
I think you are right on this! I also use that to occasionally make pancakes. Yummy.
 

G Forrest

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I'm still curious as to why Ray Peat only mentions "if you're trying to lose weight" for why he doesn't recommend whole milk and not any other health repercussions.

It's weird to me that he seems to lead with "If you're trying to lose weight..." on those KMUD interviews even though the hosts don't even ask the question regarding trying to lose weight. Who cares about losing weight unless you're obese and it's affecting your quality of life? Does Peat believe extra weight is damaging to the body? This is what I was trying to get at with my original question.

It would seem to me, if you are eating a diet based on Peat's suggestions, you would probably have a very low caloric intake of total fat anyway, even on whole milk. So why does he NOT recommend whole milk? Is this recommendation directed ONLY to people trying to lose weight (and therefore taken out of context when people say whole milk is not Peaty), or is Peat indirectly suggesting people should try to adopt a low fat diet overall as much as a possible? I mentioned the PUFA issue with consuming whole milk, but I haven't seen Peat directly talk about the concern of high PUFA with whole milk.
 
L

lollipop

Guest
I'm still curious as to why Ray Peat only mentions "if you're trying to lose weight" for why he doesn't recommend whole milk and not any other health repercussions.

It's weird to me that he seems to lead with "If you're trying to lose weight..." on those KMUD interviews even though the hosts don't even ask the question regarding trying to lose weight. Who cares about losing weight unless you're obese and it's affecting your quality of life? Does Peat believe extra weight is damaging to the body? This is what I was trying to get at with my original question.

It would seem to me, if you are eating a diet based on Peat's suggestions, you would probably have a very low caloric intake of total fat anyway, even on whole milk. So why does he NOT recommend whole milk? Is this recommendation directed ONLY to people trying to lose weight (and therefore taken out of context when people say whole milk is not Peaty), or is Peat indirectly suggesting people should try to adopt a low fat diet overall as much as a possible? I mentioned the PUFA issue with consuming whole milk, but I haven't seen Peat directly talk about the concern of high PUFA with whole milk.
Email him and ask him directly. These are good questions.
 
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