Ray On Quinine Versus Quinone

[Elie]

"I don’t know how the similarity of words came about, but quinine isn’t a quinone, and hydroxychloroquine is very different from quinine in structure, but both are antiinflammatory, which I think is why they both might help covid and malaria."

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"I don’t know how the similarity of words came about, but quinine isn’t a quinone, and hydroxychloroquine is very different from quinine in structure, but both are antiinflammatory, which I think is why they both might help covid and malaria."

Quinine as in tonic water?

 

[Elie]

Quinine as in tonic water?

I was referring to hydroxychloroquine being a quinine type of molecule.
I wondered if it was related to quinones.
Above is Ray's response.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I was referring to hydroxychloroquine being a quinine type of molecule.
I wondered if it was related to quinones.
Above is Ray's response.

Yes I read that, but tonic water would be considered to have anti-inflammatory properties?

 

[Elie]

Yes I read that, but tonic water would be considered to have anti-inflammatory properties?

oh, good question. I am not sure.

this study says it increases all cause mortality, but I didn't evaluate the methodology.

Association Between Long-term Quinine Exposure and All-Cause Mortality

This cohort study uses UK primary care database data to explore the association between long-term quinine exposure and all-cause mortality.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this one addresses some liver toxicity concern

Dietary levels of quinine in tonic water do not inhibit CYP2D6 in vivo - PubMed

Quinine is a bitter alkaloid that is used as a flavoring agent in tonic water. Studies suggest that quinine can inhibit cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6) which could have implications for the metabolism of co-ingested drugs. We conducted a study with 11 healthy volunteers (7 men, 4 women; aged...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

oh, good question. I am not sure.

this study says it increases all cause mortality, but I didn't evaluate the methodology.

Association Between Long-term Quinine Exposure and All-Cause Mortality

This cohort study uses UK primary care database data to explore the association between long-term quinine exposure and all-cause mortality.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this one addresses some liver toxicity concern

Dietary levels of quinine in tonic water do not inhibit CYP2D6 in vivo - PubMed

Quinine is a bitter alkaloid that is used as a flavoring agent in tonic water. Studies suggest that quinine can inhibit cytochrome P450 2D6 (CYP2D6) which could have implications for the metabolism of co-ingested drugs. We conducted a study with 11 healthy volunteers (7 men, 4 women; aged...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gosh I am glad I found this thread. I always thought quinine was a good thing. Thank you so much for doing that bit of research drk!

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yes I read that, but tonic water would be considered to have anti-inflammatory properties?

Probably, it's the quinine why Tonic Water was popular in the first place.

The only issue is one of concentration, as the dose of quinine in Modern Tonic Water is fairly diluted compared to what it was traditionally, or what might be used medicinally.

But, you could always get tonic water concentrate-

Amazon product ASIN B01IN7E3Q8View: https://www.amazon.com/Top-Hat-India-Tonic-Syrup/dp/B01IN7E3Q8/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=tonic+water+concentrate&qid=1621444817&sr=8-4

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Probably, it's the quinine why Tonic Water was popular in the first place.

The only issue is one of concentration, as the dose of quinine in Modern Tonic Water is fairly diluted compared to what it was traditionally, or what might be used medicinally.

But, you could always get tonic water concentrate-

Amazon product ASIN B01IN7E3Q8View: https://www.amazon.com/Top-Hat-India-Tonic-Syrup/dp/B01IN7E3Q8/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=tonic+water+concentrate&qid=1621444817&sr=8-4

The study drk posted was using 1 liter of tonic water. I don't need quinine for any reason, but my husband drinks it with his gin, and now reading the study and heart arythmia, which he gets out of the blue sometimes, makes me question if it is connected to his tonic water.

 

[SQu]

The study drk posted was using 1 liter of tonic water. I don't need quinine for any reason, but my husband drinks it with his gin, and now reading the study and heart arythmia, which he gets out of the blue sometimes, makes me question if it is connected to his tonic water.

Could be from raising metabolism. I got that from B3 and T3 for years, finally it went away I think after repleting nutrition. I had a ceiling on how much I could take before that.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Could be from raising metabolism. I got that from B3 and T3 for years, finally it went away I think after repleting nutrition. I had a ceiling on how much I could take before that.

I will have to pay closer attention when it happens again and see if the tonic water is a connection, or if maybe what you just said might be more to why is it hasn't happened for the last year? At the time I thought it was adrenal/stress related or possibly a histamine reaction. Thanks for another puzzle SQu. ?

 

[SQu]

It's a nice reason though! The arrhythmia went away when I took less, and it's a good sign about your health when it stops happening. By the way to add to that, I think the repletion was of minerals, and that blood sugar problems was another indicator. Those also went away with enough minerals. In my case I think potassium via fruit was the missing link. I lived largely on fruit last summer, arrhythmia went, insomnia improved, no ammonia smell in urine, skin spots faded away, energy was great, lost weight.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It's a nice reason though! The arrhythmia went away when I took less, and it's a good sign about your health when it stops happening. By the way to add to that, I think the repletion was of minerals, and that blood sugar problems was another indicator. Those also went away with enough minerals. In my case I think potassium via fruit was the missing link. I lived largely on fruit last summer, arrhythmia went, insomnia improved, no ammonia smell in urine, skin spots faded away, energy was great, lost weight.

That is wonderful to hear such a glowing testimonial for fruit! I have upped ours intake of them with using frozen. Hopefully the summer will bring us a good bounty cause fruit really does perk up the head and feels lighter. Keit mangos and Fuyu persimmons never seem to disappoint ?

 

[UG Krishnamurti]

EMAIL:

"Hello Dr. Peat

What do you think of the "Innate immune system" and it's suppression and activation? Does it even exist and can you actually activate it or suppress it?

I hear a lot of doctors using angiotensin II receptor blockers like losartan and olmesartan just to name a few using it to improve innate immune response.

What is your take on it?"

Ray Peat:

"Those do help; also quinine."

 

[lilsticky]

is pepsin related to pepsi?

 

[Aimer]

Endotoxin - Kmud, November 19 2010

HD = Herb Doctors RP = Ray Peat HD: Would you just describe endotoxin? RP: Its chemical name is lipopolysaccharide. There are several kinds of bacteria that make similar things. But this combination of a starch-like molecule with some fatty acids attached to it and it's so widely distributed...

raypeatforum.com

RP: There is a series that actually starts with vitamin K. It's a quinone structure that has been studied from about 1910 on as an anti-cancer, antiviral, energy-promoting, respiration-improving, anti-inflammatory, anti-fibrotic substance. For example, vitamin K is now used to strengthen bones, prevent osteoporosis and prevent calcification of arteries. That's a basic, vital function that does have tremendous range of functions. The emodin in cascara is a three-ring substance and the tetracycline is a four-ring substance, but they are all quinones that are intensified by adding the extra ring. So from vitamin K all the way up to tetracycline, it's a similar biological effect. It sounds too good to be true, to be able to stimulate respiration, be anti-inflammatory, germicidal, anti-cancer and so on.

RP: WF Koch was a Michigan chemistry professor who went into medicine. He was at the University of Michigan at the time Moses Gomberg had discovered free radicals. It was 20 or 30 years before chemists would believe that such a thing existed. But Koch was there at the university, saw the stuff, understood its properties and started thinking about what that type of reaction would mean in the body. And he proposed that we have free radicals in the form of quinones in our mitochondria handling energy, creating all of these functions (anti-inflammatory, antiviral, anti-tumour, and so on). And he created a whole range of substances, some more powerful than others, and began giving them to cancer patients and allergy patients and even infected cows. (There was a study in California in which they cured various animal diseases with his so-called anti-cancer reagent.) The famous Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, who got a Nobel prize related to respiration and vitamin C research, based practically his whole career on working out the meaning of Koch's work with the quinones. The vitamin K ubiquinone {isn't vitamin K naphthoquinone and coenzyme Q10 ubiquinone?} is the substance that came much later to be discovered in the mitochondria. The government twice tried to put Koch in jail, saying that it was inconceivable that people could have free radicals in their cells and that it would be toxic if they did. But then it turned out that exactly the type of chemical, the quinone, that Koch had postulated turned out to be the essence of how human life creates energy.