Ray Changed Mind On Sardines?

[cyclops]

So is Tilapia another fin fish option you think Peat would approve? I know he mentions Cod and Sole often.

Or, what do you think would be the next best fin fish after Sole and Cod?

 

[Milky]

@Milky "but still don't understand the insistence on throwing down his quotes like the be-all/end-all of how to eat and live."

Not insisting anything. Just answering the question. I don't follow a strict Peat diet. I like to post quotes because I enjoy the topic of nutrition philosophy. It's like a video game to me and I see each nutrition person as a character. And yes I do think there is a true Peat diet and when people say that there isn't they sound dumb because they are trying to widen the details to fit their own worldview or whatever. People call things "Peaty" that aren't at all. It would be like saying white rice is "Atkinsy." It doesn't make sense. And as I've said there are foods that he likes but doesn't eat daily and/or understands why/how a certain food can work for people but he doesn't eat it out of personal preference. I think it's best to break it down into the strict Peat diet followed by the lenient Peat diet.

Thanks for the response, it makes sense now. I think I take a lot of your comments the wrong way for some reason and for that I apologize. There's just this attitude that comes through sometimes that reminds me of some of the guys I used to know back in bible college, the know-it-all, legalistic black/white kinda vibe. Ha. I'll work on that.

 

[cyclops]

I just ate a can of these skinless/boneless sardines from Trader Joes. They tasted pretty good! Like tuna but less dry.

So many people seem to agree that Sardines are extremely nutritious, I'm thinking I might add them in once a week. I like that they are skinless. I think the skin is the thing that grosses me out the most. Do you think there is more PUFA in the skin too? It says this can has approximately 10.5 grams of fat in it, but I drained the olive oil and patted the sardines to get more olive oil out. I wonder how much fat there would be if they didn't add olive oil to it.

It be nice if I could find them skinless but WITH bones as I know the bones have calcium, maybe in water instead of olive oil too, but I think the oil kind of gave it a nice flavor (even though I got most of it off) and made them more moist. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

I'm gonna pay attention to how these make me feel. Maybe I'll add them in once a week. I think they are probably a very nutritious food, just the PUFA being an issue. But maybe there really isn't that much PUFA in the one can. It says there is 1.8 grams of Omega-3 fatty acids in the entire can.

They tasted WAY WAY better then the canned oysters I get from Trader Joe's though. Also way better then liver, in my taste anyway. Liver and Oysters are the 2 things I really don't enjoy that Peat reccomends. Oh and the carrot too. Gross.

 

[Lyn]

Tilapia is usually (always?) farmed and from Asia. I don't eat it.

Thank you, Lilac. I had tilapia once and have never ordered it again. It wasn't BAD. It was just boring and kind of unpleasant tasting. Perhaps for good reason.

 

[cyclops]

About to eat these again...somebody stop me if you care.

 

[managing]

How much does freshness play into this? The big problem with PUFA, as I understand it, is how readily it oxidizes. So, any processed PUFA is clearly horribly bad (seed oils, fish oil capsules, etc).

Then there are whole PUFA, if you will. Things like chicken and pork and even beef that are high in PUFA because they are fed a high PUFA diet. Throw fatty fish in here too. And avocado.

I realize that to a significant degree that, even if extraordinarily fresh, you eat these things and you will store PUFA (yes?). Is there a hierarchy here? Or is it all equally bad?

I've always wondered about avocado in particular as he generally holds a traditional (emphasis on traditional) Mexican diet in high esteem. And, at least in central Mexico, Avocado would be somewhere right behind nixtimalized corn in importance.

 

[johnwester130]

From my understanding peat was only against liquid seed oils and nut oils.

But he did mention avocados are bad.

 

[Dobbler]

How much does freshness play into this? The big problem with PUFA, as I understand it, is how readily it oxidizes. So, any processed PUFA is clearly horribly bad (seed oils, fish oil capsules, etc).

Then there are whole PUFA, if you will. Things like chicken and pork and even beef that are high in PUFA because they are fed a high PUFA diet. Throw fatty fish in here too. And avocado.

I realize that to a significant degree that, even if extraordinarily fresh, you eat these things and you will store PUFA (yes?). Is there a hierarchy here? Or is it all equally bad?

I've always wondered about avocado in particular as he generally holds a traditional (emphasis on traditional) Mexican diet in high esteem. And, at least in central Mexico, Avocado would be somewhere right behind nixtimalized corn in importance.

Ive checked so many sites and sources and all of them point that beef is not high in PUFA really. My ground beef is 65% SAFA which is better than most dairy. But even 17% fat beef seem to be 0,5g PUFA per 100g and thats not alot

 

[lampofred]

I was reading an older book by Peat, "Nutrition for Women" and I found it interesting that he recommends Sardines in that book.

He also talks about avoiding PUFA in the book. I wonder why over the year things like Eggs and Oysters are still recommended, but he says Sardines are no longer good. I bet they're higher in PUFA then eggs and oysters, but still, I wonder why he recommended them back then. Any ideas?

There are tons of viewpoints in that book that he no longer holds. He favors fat over sugar for example and considers refined sugar to be bad in that book.

 

[managing]

From my understanding peat was only against liquid seed oils and nut oils.

But he did mention avocados are bad.

Yes. Not to play Devil's advocate, I've never been able to figure out the exact reason. They are about 10-12% PUFA. MOL similar to Olive Oil and Palm Oil. I understand that in the SFA/PUFA hierarchy, that Coconut is better than any of these, which in turn are not nearly as bad the seed oils which run 50-60% PUFA.

So, is that it. "Not as good as Coconut"? Or is there something else that makes it "Just as bad as canola oil"?

 

[jb116]

The Goya Tinapa Sardines in tomato sauce seem pretty decent. I eat it occasionally.

Ingredients: sardines, water, tomato paste, salt.

1 serving (155g)
Total fat: 3.5g
Sat fat: 2.5g
Protein: 22g
Calcium: 80%

 

[managing]

Ive checked so many sites and sources and all of them point that beef is not high in PUFA really. My ground beef is 65% SAFA which is better than most dairy. But even 17% fat beef seem to be 0,5g PUFA per 100g and thats not alot

I wasn't really trying to vilify beef. Grass-fed I like and consume regularly. Just that, relatively speaking, grain fed will have a different profile. You get a lot of variability to due to the fact that a lot of beef is browsed (good) and fed hay, straw, grain mixture (not as good) and then finished purely on grain for 30-60 days (very bad). That is not as good as grass-fed, and not as bad as wholly grain-fed.

 

[Risingfire]

It saddens me that organic beef is not on that list while it has less PUFA than half of those foods. Does it really have so much more cysteine and tryptophan than those seafood and eggs etc..

Beef has a high amount of phosphate. He suggest if you eat beef combine it with dairy

 

[Dobbler]

I wasn't really trying to vilify beef. Grass-fed I like and consume regularly. Just that, relatively speaking, grain fed will have a different profile. You get a lot of variability to due to the fact that a lot of beef is browsed (good) and fed hay, straw, grain mixture (not as good) and then finished purely on grain for 30-60 days (very bad). That is not as good as grass-fed, and not as bad as wholly grain-fed.

Damn i think u are right. My beef is only "organic", no idea if its grass fed (probably not). But 65% safa is rarely high for beef so i hope that 0,5g pufa per 100g is right.

 

[managing]

Damn i think u are right. My beef is only "organic", no idea if its grass fed (probably not). But 65% safa is rarely high for beef so i hope that 0,5g pufa per 100g is right.

Well, 65% is pretty good, you are right. But organic is no guarantee. It can be fed 100% organic grain. Lots of chickens--meat and egg--are raised this way.

 

[tara]

true, but after a person writes one or more books about recommending diets, his future online statements are not those of a person who has never done that. You are kind of in "guru" territory when writing whole books on nutrition

Teachers share ideas and information. But he clearly he does not prescribe everybody eating the exact same diet as he does.

I love Ray Peat's writings and the person he seems to be, but still don't understand the insistence on throwing down his quotes ...

I really like it that people post quotes, especially when they are long enough to include the relevant context. Since a key purpose of the forum is for people to learn about Peat's ideas.
But that doesn't mean I think it's a rule book to try to comply with. Read ideas, see how they add to our understanding of the world, see what we can make use of.

From my understanding peat was only against liquid seed oils and nut oils.

He has mentioned that animals - eg pigs - fed on a diet high in PUFAs will have fat high in PUFAs too, and that that's not ideal, and you can read his article about the Fish Oil Experiment.

 

[Frankdee20]

Are sole and tilapia the same things? or very similar? I had only heard sol and cod recommended before. Tilapia would give me another option.

Isn't most Tilapia farmed raised in places like China ? You'd be hard pressed to find wild versions of this fish commercially.

 

[jitsmonkey]

Intellectual, researcher, scholar, writer says/writes something...
44 years later thinks something different...
shocker.

 

[cyclops]

Intellectual, researcher, scholar, writer says/writes something...
44 years later thinks something different...
shocker.

Exactly. I was so shocked when I read this, my whole world collapsed. My heart started racing and nothing in my life made sense anymore.

I wasn't just asking people as to why they think he changed his mind on this. No I was in utter shock and disbelief.

 

[yerrag]

Isn't most Tilapia farmed raised in places like China ? You'd be hard pressed to find wild versions of this fish commercially.

The South has many tilapia farms, or maybe had, if the Asian imports made it uncompetitive to raise tilapia in the US.

Tilapia and sole aren't oily fish, that's what they have in common. You can't put them on a grille like you could tuna or halibut, because they will flake and crumble easily as they have little oil content. Often, they are wrapped in in aluminum when being grilled, and they cook in their own steam. Cod is also low in oil, and very high in protein. Because cod is low in fats, it's a good fish to salt and dry.

I guess these fish aren't bad, when you consider that they're low in fats, and certainly low in PUFA. However, tilapia is mostly farm-raised and for that reason, I don't like to eat them because I don't know what's in the pellets being fed to them. But the tilapia I raised for my consumption, with better food - they grow large and they're excellent deep-fried to crispy perfection. The large tilapia has plenty of flesh that can actually be enjoyed, as it has a premium quality to its texture.

I personally prefer fish that's not kept alive in an aquarium with aeration, simply to sell the idea of freshness to gullible customers such that they are willing to pay more for it. The reality is that these fish are dying a slow death, as they are slowly intoxicated by their own ammonia waste, in a tank that has no biofilter to remove the ammonia. These fish have a characteristic taste which people mistake for flavor, where in fact it is the taste of ammonia intoxication. When you taste tilapia, or grouper, or wild-caught salmon, fresh off the sea or the pond, you will be surprised that there is none of that "flavor," and you will appreciate what truly fresh fish really tastes like.

Szechuan Chinese food is spicy. But the spiciness is rooted in the need to mask the taste of food that tastes off because of the lack of freshness. When there is a special occasion, it is said that Szechuan people won't serve spicy food, because they want to enjoy the taste of fresh food.