Randle Cycle Question

connorj123

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I have been looking into the randle cycle recently and what Ray Peat says about diet and I can't make sense of it. If I were to eat fruit and fats, meat both together, how do I avoid negative consequences of the randle cycle? Does it mean spacing the two a couple of hours apart or something similar? Would appreciate your input, Thanks
 

Hans

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Don't get too hung up on the theory. Start with moderate fat and see how you do. If you do poorly and feel insulin resistant, reduce your fat content. If you feel good but rather hungry, increase your fat content a little.
 

connorj123

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Don't get too hung up on the theory. Start with moderate fat and see how you do. If you do poorly and feel insulin resistant, reduce your fat content. If you feel good but rather hungry, increase your fat content a little.

Could I do a high fat and still be healthy in the long term? It's the only way I feel satiated. Also; I have only just started looking into what Ray Peat says, and I agree with what he says .. But I can't help but wonder how this way of eating separates me from a standard american dieter ... I don't eat fast food, but I am wondering how my health will do long term eating all of the nice things like cream, butter, cheese .. while also eating maybe moderate amount of carbs.. I'm not sure. I am trying to gain weight to be fair, because I am a bit underweight, but want to stay healthy in the long run too

I have hypoglycemia as well so I need to eat every 2 hours or so. I'm just wondering how I would heal on this? The only benefit I can see is that I would be consuming a lot less PUFA's, less anti-nutrients and a lot of fat soluble vitamins

Whats ur take , and how do u approach diet when following Peat ?
 

Hans

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Could I do a high fat and still be healthy in the long term? It's the only way I feel satiated. Also; I have only just started looking into what Ray Peat says, and I agree with what he says .. But I can't help but wonder how this way of eating separates me from a standard american dieter ... I don't eat fast food, but I am wondering how my health will do long term eating all of the nice things like cream, butter, cheese .. while also eating maybe moderate amount of carbs.. I'm not sure. I am trying to gain weight to be fair, because I am a bit underweight, but want to stay healthy in the long run too

I have hypoglycemia as well so I need to eat every 2 hours or so. I'm just wondering how I would heal on this? The only benefit I can see is that I would be consuming a lot less PUFA's, less anti-nutrients and a lot of fat soluble vitamins

Whats ur take , and how do u approach diet when following Peat ?
My approach is just to eat healthily. Oxidative stress and inflammation are the biggest causes of disease and ageing IMO. There is quite a lot of things that can cause oxidative stress and inflammation, such as plastics, heavy metals, radiation, endotoxins, PUFAs, chemicals, pollution, endocrine disruptors, etc., so mitigating the risk as much as possible is a big part of my approach.

From a dietary standpoint I eat whole foods, such as meat, potatoes, milk and fruit. I want to up my fruit intake radically as fruit (and veggies) are very rich in anti-oxidants that can mitigate oxidative stress and inflammation.
My fat intake is relatively high as well and I'm doing see it necessary to lower it. If I start to gain too much too fast I'd lower fat first. For instance, I'd use lean red meat and low fat dairy and just eat fruit to satiety. I happen to feel quite satiated from even fruit juice alone, so that is nice.

If I were you I'd try to locate the reason for hypoglycemia and then try to fix that. There isn't necessarily something wrong with eating every 2 hours, but hypoglycemia isn't normal.
 

connorj123

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My approach is just to eat healthily. Oxidative stress and inflammation are the biggest causes of disease and ageing IMO. There is quite a lot of things that can cause oxidative stress and inflammation, such as plastics, heavy metals, radiation, endotoxins, PUFAs, chemicals, pollution, endocrine disruptors, etc., so mitigating the risk as much as possible is a big part of my approach.

From a dietary standpoint I eat whole foods, such as meat, potatoes, milk and fruit. I want to up my fruit intake radically as fruit (and veggies) are very rich in anti-oxidants that can mitigate oxidative stress and inflammation.
My fat intake is relatively high as well and I'm doing see it necessary to lower it. If I start to gain too much too fast I'd lower fat first. For instance, I'd use lean red meat and low fat dairy and just eat fruit to satiety. I happen to feel quite satiated from even fruit juice alone, so that is nice.

If I were you I'd try to locate the reason for hypoglycemia and then try to fix that. There isn't necessarily something wrong with eating every 2 hours, but hypoglycemia isn't normal.

I honestly think fruit is one of the healthiest foods you can eat. I think like you say sticking to whole foods is quite healthy in its self. I forgot that I was even eating only whole foods because its been so long since I've had processed food besides GF bread now and again. Yeah I know, I think I know whats caused my hypoglycemia. In high school during ages 12/13 up until 16 I ran on the full day with an empty stomach besides breakfast and something really small at lunch .. While hungry .. When I got home I would then fill up all at once so I think this is what has messed my metabolism up. Hypoglycemia isn't the only thing that I developed from that as well so I hope regular eating helps
 

schultz

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Fructose must act differently than glucose in regards to this theory I would assume? It's possible high fat/starch is different than high fat/fruit, the latter possibly being less problematic.
 

Hans

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Fructose must act differently than glucose in regards to this theory I would assume? It's possible high fat/starch is different than high fat/fruit, the latter possibly being less problematic.
Maybe to a small degree because fructose stimulates PDH, but fats still inhibit PDH. So the difference would be small. If fat is inhibiting PDH, the excess fructose rushing into the cell might then just create lots of lactate. If someone's mitochondria are running optimally and it can uncouple and burn even more calories, then that's a different story.
 

berk

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Carbohydrate clearance is generally better during daylight hours, and thus that is when best time to eat carbs, while keeping the night time state free of carbohydrate intake. This probably helps to maintain the ability to use both fuels adequately.

Where the difference between day time and night time adipose tissue insulin sensitivity is not that great. I even remember seeing a study showing the highest adipose insulin sensitivity at 12pm in obese people. High adipose insulin sensitivity just means more energetic substrate to fat tissue, instead of the more metabolically active all-other-tissues (which is where you want carbohydrate intake to go to)

Carbohydrate utilisation is significantly better during daylight hours. It is at this time in which carbohydrate energy inputs can best be met with good energy usage and storage capacity, and which is when high carbohydrate loads are best introduced.
“Afternoon diabetes” and nutrient partitioning

I also think that "Carbs either earlier in the day, or at least after exercise", is the way to go, with fat probably having to be reduced at those times as well.

When muscle are in a rest state, they are prefer fat for fuel so it carbs during daylight hours when your are actitive, and fats in the evening when you resting.

And of course, there are clear studies showing that a protein bolus at around sunset or even later increase muscle protein synthesis much greater than a similar bolus earlier in the daytime, which does suggest benefits to a controlled night-time meal -- Nutrient Timing Endures: Circadian Rhythm Protein Timing | humanengine

In generic terms, there is clear evidence showing that all humans process food better during daylight hours. Better glucose tolerance, better fatty acid oxidation, less adipose tissue insulin sensitivity, more accurate liver clock timing (liver is meant to swell up during day with nutrients, not so much during night), etc ..... Again, I will direct people to read Bill Lagakos' blog The poor, misunderstood calorie
 

Auslander

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Don't get too hung up on the theory. Start with moderate fat and see how you do. If you do poorly and feel insulin resistant, reduce your fat content. If you feel good but rather hungry, increase your fat content a little.

Hola.

Randle cycle is actually not a theory or a hypothesis as you seem to imply. Its a well established biochemical process. And in my view the single most underrated factor in the
Peat world. I say this as a long time Peat diet follower. I will post a thred about this soon, about my own experience with Peat fat gain amd subsequent fat loss on the basis of Randle cycle alone.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.
 

Hans

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Hola.

Randle cycle is actually not a theory or a hypothesis as you seem to imply. Its a well established biochemical process. And in my view the single most underrated factor in the
Peat world. I say this as a long time Peat diet follower. I will post a thred about this soon, about my own experience with Peat fat gain amd subsequent fat loss on the basis of Randle cycle alone.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.
I know it's a proven mechanism. I read the literature myself. The point I'm trying to make is that not everyone has to eat low fat on a high carb diet just because of the Randle cycle. It's not that simple.
 

Auslander

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I know it's a proven mechanism. I read the literature myself. The point I'm trying to make is that not everyone has to eat low fat on a high carb diet just because of the Randle cycle. It's not that simple.

Actually the trick to randal cycle isnt low fat diet. Its merely about separating the fat from carbs. Let each digest on their own.
 

Hans

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Actually the trick to randal cycle isnt low fat diet. Its merely about separating the fat from carbs. Let each digest on their own.
Yes, but if you eat fat at breakfast you actually get a second high fat effect at lunch even if you eat low carb. If you really want to run by the rules of the Randle cycle you got to eat low fat high carb breakfast, same for lunch and then low carb high fat dinner.
Normal people's muscle and liver are most insulin sensitive in the morning with adipose tissue being insulin resistant, that's why they could do good on going from high carb to low carb as the day goes on.
Insulin resistant people actually benefit from the opposite, such as lower carb in the morning and higher carb in the evening. It's called the dawn effect.

The reason I don't like being too scientific about the Randle cycle and designing a meal plan is because doing that eliminates your own guidance system and you don't eat intuitively.
 

berk

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i dont like the Randle cycle at all.
if i dont eat carbs for bedtime, my sleep get worse. (waking up a little every few hours)
Nut sure why, but a good night sleep is more important for me.
 

Hans

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i dont like the Randle cycle at all.
if i dont eat carbs for bedtime, my sleep get worse. (waking up a little every few hours)
Nut sure why, but a good night sleep is more important for me.
Same for me. If I don't have carbs a bit before bed I struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep. I might even awaken from feeling too hot. If I have some sweet milk my temps drop again and I can sleep properly.
 

Auslander

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i dont like the Randle cycle at all.
if i dont eat carbs for bedtime, my sleep get worse. (waking up a little every few hours)
Nut sure why, but a good night sleep is more important for me.

There is nothing about randal cycle that would be against carbs at night. I adhere to randal cycle and my carb consumption is probably the highest at night before bed.
 

Hgreen56

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Same for me. If I don't have carbs a bit before bed I struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep. I might even awaken from feeling too hot. If I have some sweet milk my temps drop again and I can sleep properly.
this meaning your metabolic rate is lowering from the milk? this is not a good thing in overall i guess?
 

Hans

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this meaning your metabolic rate is lowering from the milk? this is not a good thing in overall i guess?
Have you ever had a stress reaction? It feels like you're burning up and is going to sweat. That is not a boost in metabolism and is not a good thing. So no, lowering my temps with calories is not a drop in metabolism, but rather a drop in stress hormones.
 

Hgreen56

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Have you ever had a stress reaction? It feels like you're burning up and is going to sweat. That is not a boost in metabolism and is not a good thing. So no, lowering my temps with calories is not a drop in metabolism, but rather a drop in stress hormones.
ok, well i know the feeling, get hot at night and wake up but hard to say ff this is stress related or high metabolism.

Another question:
Yes, but if you eat fat at breakfast you actually get a second high fat effect at lunch even if you eat low carb.
Is this also when someone eat coconut oil? is coconut oil not faster out of your system because the mct?
And so no second high fat effect?
 

Jessie

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Stress hormones are a bigger problem for the Randle effect then dietary fat is. Adrenaline increases free fatty acids, so it's technically possible to be fueling excessive fat oxidation without eating much fat. Most people's issue is they have poor glucose oxidation. If you eat a high carb high fat meal, the body will always burn the glucose before it burns the fat. So, if you aren't burning glucose well, the fat won't be burned either.

The whole "the fat you eat is the fat you wear" mantra is sometimes right, but it's a very simpleton way of approaching it. And it's only right because so many people frequently have problems with their energy production cycle (glycolisis, krebs, ETC, etc.) and can't burn sugar very well. Ray recommends prioritizing carbohydrate for it's anti-stress pro-thyroid purposes.

If you have good metabolic flexibility, you should be able to burn both without much issue. I don't like eating fat with sugar because it makes me hungry faster, I think it messes with my leptin and causes me to overeat. What causes better metabolic flexibility? Hard to say, because the list is rather short. The only well established thing is having increased muscle mass, because bigger muscles will burn more fat at rest, they can also hold more glycogen. Stuff like red light and thyroid hormone will help too.
 

Hans

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Is this also when someone eat coconut oil? is coconut oil not faster out of your system because the mct?
And so no second high fat effect?
Yes I think the effect will be dramatically less because of the shorter chain fats, however this is still person specific.
 
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