Randle Cycle In Practice: Fats On A Carbohydrate-rich Meal

Amazoniac

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Since insulin resistance might not be a subject that is going to attract most, I figured that some people might miss that interesting blog post:
Insulin Resistance
If the mods want to, feel free to bring those two posts here..

"Over the 5 hours after meal consumption, insulin concentrations were greater in every butter condition compared to the potato alone, maximizing and reaching statistical significance with 15 or more grams of fat."
 
OP
Amazoniac

Amazoniac

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Members without an avatar pic that hides a massive cranial expansion;
cantstoppeating, Such_;

The content is mixed and it doesn’t follow a sequence because one study relates to the other, so I kept switching:

Effect of added fat on the plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato given in various combinations as two meals in normal individuals. - PubMed - NCBI
The Degree of Saturation of Fatty Acids in Dietary Fats Does Not Affect the Metabolic Response to Ingested Carbohydrate

One of them tested how potato with or without added butter affected differently combined in different forms on two consecutive meals.
The other was designed to test how and if different fats have different effects on glucose metabolism.
  • On the first meal, the glucose response fell below the mean initial fasting values after one hour, regardless of the combination. When there was butter present, the peak was greatly attenuated.
  • This researcher and her team noticed in other studies that butter has a unique response compared to other fats. The insulin response was the same but glucose response was about 40% less; and it didn’t delay the rise in glucose (unlike what happens with other fats). However, when they tested combinations of potato with or without added fat for two consecutive meals, they found that butter behaved like that mostly on the first meal to which it was added. They suggest that meal combination and timing have an important effect. But it’s not clear if this is mostly influenced by a circadian factor or a mild insulin resistance for the following meals after fat is consumed. For some reason, that effect on consecutive meals wasn’t perceived in women, only in men. This study was a simple combination of potato w/wo butter; things can get more complex when you add more variables.
  • Some studies found that glucose tolerance diminishes later in the day. They commented about the interaction of circadian glucocorticoids and their effects on glucose and free fatty acids metabolism.
  • Free fatty acids concentration was elevated on the second meal if fat was added to the first one (4h apart from each other), even if fat wasn’t added to the second one.
  • When potato is consumed alone, there was an evident compensatory stimulus to bring the concentrations of glucose back to baseline; added fats attenuated or mitigated that effect – however they delayed and prolonged the insulin and glucose response. With butter being an exception, when fat was present, “the glucose rise was slower and the maximum was less” but the integrated area (for 4h) was “virtually identical”; in other words, it was a more stable response but lasted longer. They suggested that the delayed response can be attributed to the delayed gastric emptying that’s known to occur when fats are present. Again, butter being an exception here, the meals were simple, but in more complex meals, the story might be a bit different; and if I’m not wrong, casein is able delay gastric emptying.
  • In a in vitro study, fatty acids potentiated the glucose-stimulation of insulin. “The stimulation increased with increased chain length and the degree of saturation of the fatty acids”, “the longer the chain length and the lower the number of double bonds, the greater the effects”. They speculated that one of the reasons why butter has that unique effect might be due to its stimulatory properties on insulin, but they are definitely not sure. Ketone bodies derived from short and medium-chain fatty acids might also play a role in stimulating it.
  • They also suggested that free fatty acids augment the insulin response in the presence of elevated glucose concentration. FFA concentration “decreased and the decrease correlated with the change in insulin concentration”.
  • Fats were also given alone and compared to water, they had a slight stimulatory action on insulin. And they commented that according to the results: all three macronutrients have been shown to be able to stimulate it.
  • The presence of glucose decreased FFA concentration and didn’t differ significantly whether fats were present or not. After 4 hours they came back to normal.
  • Potato alone or with added fats gave the participants the same satiety.
  • Addition of lard or safflower oil to potato was equally pleasant, slightly less for olive oil; according to the participants (they didn’t compare the fats directly; they compared potato alone versus added fat and rated).
A disclaimer for members with high tissue-Mittiristic acid: I’m merely sharing and curious; I’m not a scientist wannabe. I don’t even like coffee and I don’t usually wear button-down shirts to begin with..

@James IV @jyb @Westside PUFAs
 
J

James IV

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Do what makes you feel good. I eat large amounts of fat, and my power level is over 9000. N=#1. Come at me bro.
 

Momado965

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How does a meal containing 13% P, 32% F and 56% C relate in terms of the randle cycle?
 

Wagner83

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Members without an avatar pic that hides a massive cranial expansion;
cantstoppeating, Such_;

The content is mixed and it doesn’t follow a sequence because one study relates to the other, so I kept switching:

Effect of added fat on the plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato given in various combinations as two meals in normal individuals. - PubMed - NCBI
The Degree of Saturation of Fatty Acids in Dietary Fats Does Not Affect the Metabolic Response to Ingested Carbohydrate

One of them tested how potato with or without added butter affected differently combined in different forms on two consecutive meals.
The other was designed to test how and if different fats have different effects on glucose metabolism.
  • On the first meal, the glucose response fell below the mean initial fasting values after one hour, regardless of the combination. When there was butter present, the peak was greatly attenuated.
  • This researcher and her team noticed in other studies that butter has a unique response compared to other fats. The insulin response was the same but glucose response was about 40% less; and it didn’t delay the rise in glucose (unlike what happens with other fats). However, when they tested combinations of potato with or without added fat for two consecutive meals, they found that butter behaved like that mostly on the first meal to which it was added. They suggest that meal combination and timing have an important effect. But it’s not clear if this is mostly influenced by a circadian factor or a mild insulin resistance for the following meals after fat is consumed. For some reason, that effect on consecutive meals wasn’t perceived in women, only in men. This study was a simple combination of potato w/wo butter; things can get more complex when you add more variables.
  • Some studies found that glucose tolerance diminishes later in the day. They commented about the interaction of circadian glucocorticoids and their effects on glucose and free fatty acids metabolism.
  • Free fatty acids concentration was elevated on the second meal if fat was added to the first one (4h apart from each other), even if fat wasn’t added to the second one.
  • When potato is consumed alone, there was an evident compensatory stimulus to bring the concentrations of glucose back to baseline; added fats attenuated or mitigated that effect – however they delayed and prolonged the insulin and glucose response. With butter being an exception, when fat was present, “the glucose rise was slower and the maximum was less” but the integrated area (for 4h) was “virtually identical”; in other words, it was a more stable response but lasted longer. They suggested that the delayed response can be attributed to the delayed gastric emptying that’s known to occur when fats are present. Again, butter being an exception here, the meals were simple, but in more complex meals, the story might be a bit different; and if I’m not wrong, casein is able delay gastric emptying.
  • In a in vitro study, fatty acids potentiated the glucose-stimulation of insulin. “The stimulation increased with increased chain length and the degree of saturation of the fatty acids”, “the longer the chain length and the lower the number of double bonds, the greater the effects”. They speculated that one of the reasons why butter has that unique effect might be due to its stimulatory properties on insulin, but they are definitely not sure. Ketone bodies derived from short and medium-chain fatty acids might also play a role in stimulating it.
  • They also suggested that free fatty acids augment the insulin response in the presence of elevated glucose concentration. FFA concentration “decreased and the decrease correlated with the change in insulin concentration”.
  • Fats were also given alone and compared to water, they had a slight stimulatory action on insulin. And they commented that according to the results: all three macronutrients have been shown to be able to stimulate it.
  • The presence of glucose decreased FFA concentration and didn’t differ significantly whether fats were present or not. After 4 hours they came back to normal.
  • Potato alone or with added fats gave the participants the same satiety.
  • Addition of lard or safflower oil to potato was equally pleasant, slightly less for olive oil; according to the participants (they didn’t compare the fats directly; they compared potato alone versus added fat and rated).
A disclaimer for members with high tissue-Mittiristic acid: I’m merely sharing and curious; I’m not a scientist wannabe. I don’t even like coffee and I don’t usually wear button-down shirts to begin with..

@James IV @jyb @Westside PUFAs
It has been reported over here and online that fat can help people digest foods and stimulate transit time. Ray and others have talked about the enjoyment of food to get the juices going, how bm are important for health.

Do you have any personal experience and knowledge you can share on where the limit is for fat quantity in a meal to avoid the inflammatory and diabetes inducing effects of high-fat, high-carb meals ?

At this point I'm strongly considering a few possibilities :

_ more fat (maybe not hard cheese) may shrink my waistline and decrease water retention, high starch lowish fat led to rapid chest and even abdominal hair growth .
_ yolks may be particularly good despite the pufas, maybe all the benefits are from them.
_ more fat does stimulate digestion, 15g being too little for benefits. 20-25 grams being better, more than 35gr being very unpleasant, even for dinner (like, obvious cardiovascular unpleasant).
_ the right amount of fat in a meal is very precise, a few grams of difference do have big effects on transit time, but also potential negative ones (reduced erection quality, feeling fat and heavy, having a bad response in the next meal).
_ the transport of endotoxin seen with fat may be a good thing, particularly if digestion improves.
- 15 gr of fat or even less may be ok for breakfast, but more is needed for lunch, (as an aside, this has been discussed many times but eating lunch late can ve awful).
_ perhaps fibers can make up for fat to a certain point (butywrate?).
_fat may help thanks to a toboggan effect when it's not fully absorbed (more sweeping).
_my niacinamide smelt like Parmigiano reggiano rolled under portuguese armpits so I may have experienced none of its benefits in the context of a high carb low fat diet.
_ oj may protect against high starch low fat to a point.

@raypeatclips maybe you have some thoughts to share on fat in the diet, energy, digestion etc..? I know you enjoyed james iv posts and so did I.
 
Last edited:
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Amazoniac

Amazoniac

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Messages
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It has been reported over here and online that fat can help people digest foods and stimulate transit time. Ray and others have talked about the enjoyment of food to get the juices going, how bm are important for health.

Do you have any personal experience and knowledge you can share on where the limit is for fat quantity in a meal to avoid the inflammatory and diabetes inducing effects of high-fat, high-carb meals ?

At this point I'm strongly considering a few possibilities :

_ more fat (maybe not hard cheese) may shrink my waistline and decrease water retention, high starch lowish fat led to rapid chest and even abdominal hair growth .
_ yolks may be particularly good despite the pufas, maybe all the benefits are from them.
_ more fat does stimulate digestion, 15g being too little for benefits. 20-25 grams being better, more than 35gr being very unpleasant, even for dinner (like, obvious cardiovascular unpleasant).
_ the right amount of fat in a meal is very precise, a few grams of difference do have big effects on transit time, but also potential negative ones (reduced erection quality, feeling fat and heavy, having a bad response in the next meal).
_ the transport of endotoxin seen with fat may be a good thing, particularly if digestion improves.
- 15 gr of fat or even less may be ok for breakfast, but more is needed for lunch, (as an aside, this has been discussed many times but eating lunch late can ve awful).
_ perhaps fibers can make up for fat to a certain point (butywrate?).
_fat may help thanks to a toboggan effect when it's not fully absorbed (more sweeping).
_my niacinamide smelt like Parmigiano reggiano rolled under portuguese armpits so I may have experienced none of its benefits in the context of a high carb low fat diet.
_ oj may protect against high starch low fat to a point.

@raypeatclips maybe you have some thoughts to share on fat in the diet, energy, digestion etc..? I know you enjoyed james iv posts and so did I.
I think you'll know when there's too much: it will be swimming in fats, which it doesn't happen if they're added as flavorings. And unlike in foods, added fats are concentrated, so a little bit can provide a surprising amount of calories.

In my opinion there's no need to overthink this because the excess will be put into storage and be burned later on.

If the person lives in a cold of the climates, it's normal to seek more dense and salted foods.

Regarding eggs, a deficiency in choline (as example) will impact a person much, much earlier and drastically than the cumulative effect of PUFA that the worst eggs out there might contribute.

Since the competition with the use of glucose comes from long of the chains of the fats, you can always combine them in a way that aims to increase the proportion of shorter chains. The effects from fermentation of those fibers will come much later than the meal, but the inclusion of vinegar definitely affects it:
Effect and mechanisms of action of vinegar on glucose metabolism, lipid profile, and body weight | Nutrition Reviews | Oxford Academic
Proceedings of The Physiological Society | Physiological Society

Defining high-fat-diet rat models: metabolic and molecular effects of different fat types
"[..]an experimental elevation of coconut fat intake does not lead to insulin resistance (Schwab et al. 1995); and chronically high coconut fat consumption, as in traditional Polynesian diets, is not associated with elevated diabetes prevalence (Taylor et al. 1983). Thus, it seems conceivable that high intake of C12 and C14 saturated fatty acids may not be necessarily deleterious to glucose metabolism. In view of coconut fat-induced hypertriglyceridemia, however, it does not seem appropriate to advocate unconditionally this dietary fat source for nutritional interventions."

Some issues with too much dairy fat:
- Influence of a diet enriched with virgin olive oil or butter on mouse gut microbiota and its correlation to physiological and biochemical parameters related to metabolic syndrome
- https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2016.1150414

Supplementing niacin in a way that forces glucose oxidation beyond capability sends a stressful signal, and each of those serve to reinforce the conservation mode.
 

EIRE24

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Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
1,792
It has been reported over here and online that fat can help people digest foods and stimulate transit time. Ray and others have talked about the enjoyment of food to get the juices going, how bm are important for health.

Do you have any personal experience and knowledge you can share on where the limit is for fat quantity in a meal to avoid the inflammatory and diabetes inducing effects of high-fat, high-carb meals ?

At this point I'm strongly considering a few possibilities :

_ more fat (maybe not hard cheese) may shrink my waistline and decrease water retention, high starch lowish fat led to rapid chest and even abdominal hair growth .
_ yolks may be particularly good despite the pufas, maybe all the benefits are from them.
_ more fat does stimulate digestion, 15g being too little for benefits. 20-25 grams being better, more than 35gr being very unpleasant, even for dinner (like, obvious cardiovascular unpleasant).
_ the right amount of fat in a meal is very precise, a few grams of difference do have big effects on transit time, but also potential negative ones (reduced erection quality, feeling fat and heavy, having a bad response in the next meal).
_ the transport of endotoxin seen with fat may be a good thing, particularly if digestion improves.
- 15 gr of fat or even less may be ok for breakfast, but more is needed for lunch, (as an aside, this has been discussed many times but eating lunch late can ve awful).
_ perhaps fibers can make up for fat to a certain point (butywrate?).
_fat may help thanks to a toboggan effect when it's not fully absorbed (more sweeping).
_my niacinamide smelt like Parmigiano reggiano rolled under portuguese armpits so I may have experienced none of its benefits in the context of a high carb low fat diet.
_ oj may protect against high starch low fat to a point.

@raypeatclips maybe you have some thoughts to share on fat in the diet, energy, digestion etc..? I know you enjoyed james iv posts and so did I.
This is a great post. I too think that amount of fat is the sweet spot and needed for digestion. Around the 30 gram mark a day will do the trick for me. Eggs, steak and butter.
 

Wagner83

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Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
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I think you'll know when there's too much: it will be swimming in fats, which it doesn't happen if they're added as flavorings. And unlike in foods, added fats are concentrated, so a little bit can provide a surprising amount of calories.
Potatoes can be turned into butter receptacles, chocolate mousse, ice cream and the likes are quite tricky as well.

In my opinion there's no need to overthink this because the excess will be put into storage and be burned later on.
But then wouldn't it mean that there's no interference with glucose oxidation and randle cycle effects when a fair amount of fat and carbs are consumed together? I remember seeing a study which showed a low-fat high-carb diet lowered free fatty acids.

Regarding eggs, a deficiency in choline (as example) will impact a person much, much earlier and drastically than the cumulative effect of PUFA that the worst eggs out there might contribute.
Speaking about PUFAs and, tyw's idea was that burning them is better than storing them, but isn't the issue to have them released and burned when under stress? Are their harmful effects seen if they are stored in adipose tissues and organs too? There was this link of yours which suggested PUFAs in muscles increased insulin sensitivity (if I remember right).
Since the competition with the use of glucose comes from long of the chains of the fats, you can always combine them in a way that aims to increase the proportion of shorter chains. The effects from fermentation of those fibers will come much later than the meal, but the inclusion of vinegar definitely affects it:
Effect and mechanisms of action of vinegar on glucose metabolism, lipid profile, and body weight | Nutrition Reviews | Oxford Academic
Proceedings of The Physiological Society | Physiological Society

Defining high-fat-diet rat models: metabolic and molecular effects of different fat types
"[..]an experimental elevation of coconut fat intake does not lead to insulin resistance (Schwab et al. 1995); and chronically high coconut fat consumption, as in traditional Polynesian diets, is not associated with elevated diabetes prevalence (Taylor et al. 1983). Thus, it seems conceivable that high intake of C12 and C14 saturated fatty acids may not be necessarily deleterious to glucose metabolism. In view of coconut fat-induced hypertriglyceridemia, however, it does not seem appropriate to advocate unconditionally this dietary fat source for nutritional interventions."
Some issues with too much dairy fat:
- Influence of a diet enriched with virgin olive oil or butter on mouse gut microbiota and its correlation to physiological and biochemical parameters related to metabolic syndrome
- https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2016.1150414
Thanks I'll check those. Are you aware of issues from the higher triglycerides? I don't want to choose between plague and HIV.

This is a great post. I too think that amount of fat is the sweet spot and needed for digestion. Around the 30 gram mark a day will do the trick for me. Eggs, steak and butter.
That is very low, so basically 150 grams of beef and two egg yolks cooked in butter.
 
Last edited:

raypeatclips

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Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
2,555
It has been reported over here and online that fat can help people digest foods and stimulate transit time. Ray and others have talked about the enjoyment of food to get the juices going, how bm are important for health.

Do you have any personal experience and knowledge you can share on where the limit is for fat quantity in a meal to avoid the inflammatory and diabetes inducing effects of high-fat, high-carb meals ?

At this point I'm strongly considering a few possibilities :

_ more fat (maybe not hard cheese) may shrink my waistline and decrease water retention, high starch lowish fat led to rapid chest and even abdominal hair growth .
_ yolks may be particularly good despite the pufas, maybe all the benefits are from them.
_ more fat does stimulate digestion, 15g being too little for benefits. 20-25 grams being better, more than 35gr being very unpleasant, even for dinner (like, obvious cardiovascular unpleasant).
_ the right amount of fat in a meal is very precise, a few grams of difference do have big effects on transit time, but also potential negative ones (reduced erection quality, feeling fat and heavy, having a bad response in the next meal).
_ the transport of endotoxin seen with fat may be a good thing, particularly if digestion improves.
- 15 gr of fat or even less may be ok for breakfast, but more is needed for lunch, (as an aside, this has been discussed many times but eating lunch late can ve awful).
_ perhaps fibers can make up for fat to a certain point (butywrate?).
_fat may help thanks to a toboggan effect when it's not fully absorbed (more sweeping).
_my niacinamide smelt like Parmigiano reggiano rolled under portuguese armpits so I may have experienced none of its benefits in the context of a high carb low fat diet.
_ oj may protect against high starch low fat to a point.

@raypeatclips maybe you have some thoughts to share on fat in the diet, energy, digestion etc..? I know you enjoyed james iv posts and so did I.

I only just saw you tagged me in this. I feel pretty much a normal person eating approx 33/33/33 I had a few days of accidentally higher fat from butter (I was eyeballing 15g portions but turns out once I bought some scales they were closer to 40-50g butter per meal) I didn't feel terrible just "off."

Low fat was probably one of the worst I felt on a diet, eating both sugar and starch like I do now and feel fine.

I am generous with fat now and get it from butter, fatty beef or lamb, full fat Greek yoghurt, chocolate, medium or high fat milk, ice cream and it feels fine.

I pretty much agree with what you said. Just increase your fat and see what happens I guess. I've only noticed benefits from doing it.

A few weeks ago when I was eating the way I eat and walking a lot, I was having great bowel movements and my stomach was very flat a lot of the time. Now I am not walking as much the fat alone hasn't had this effect which is disappointing as I thought it might.

I also sleep through the night every night now. I am eating a bit more protein these days too, but perhaps the slower release of fat is allowing me to sleep longer?
 

Wagner83

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Messages
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I tagged you after editing the post so it didn't work.

james iv had suggested eating more fat to ecstatichamster along with not eating right before bed: more insulin resistant for the night being better. He also said blood sugar drops were the main issue not so much the levels themselves, if one eats sugar right before bed he may suffer from that. From what I remember duggadugga healed himself with fruits and may have had differing opinions on some of the topics.

Did you notice any effects on erection quality /morning wood from the higher fat intake?

Turmeric, yellow pineapples and perhaps some mushrooms may help with digestion too. Having one meal without starch might also help, not sure (whole fruit, honey, dairy, maybe chocolate, coffee). Amazoniac had posted information on how movement reduces constipation, I guess nature didn't imagine there could be life without movement??
 

raypeatclips

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Messages
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I tagged you after editing the post so it didn't work.

james iv had suggested eating more fat to ecstatichamster along with not eating right before bed: more insulin resistant for the night being better. He also said blood sugar drops were the main issue not so much the levels themselves, if one eats sugar right before bed he may suffer from that. From what I remember duggadugga healed himself with fruits and may have had differing opinions on some of the topics.

Did you notice any effects on erection quality /morning wood from the higher fat intake?

Turmeric, yellow pineapples and perhaps some mushrooms may help with digestion too. Having one meal without starch might also help, not sure (whole fruit, honey, dairy, maybe chocolate, coffee). Amazoniac had posted information on how movement reduces constipation, I guess nature didn't imagine there could be life without movement??

Yeah I remember big blood sugar drops back when I was low fat, despite my blood sugar levels being normal when I tested them, the lack of fat slowing the drop down made me feel horrendous with low blood sugar symptoms, so I agree with that. I think James also suggested this was the problem when I came to the forums asking for help with it. I also remember those posts with ecastatichamster, they were very interesting.

Noticed no change from down there with fat, no. I notice increase changes when nofapping (which is probably very obvious)

That's an idea I may try, occasional meals without starch. Back when my bowel movements were very regular, I was eating starch every meal too, when I was walking a lot. I've also slacked on the carrot salad which always did help, it is very convenient to forget about doing.
 

SOMO

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Joined
Mar 27, 2018
Messages
1,094
It has been reported over here and online that fat can help people digest foods and stimulate transit time. Ray and others have talked about the enjoyment of food to get the juices going, how bm are important for health.

Do you have any personal experience and knowledge you can share on where the limit is for fat quantity in a meal to avoid the inflammatory and diabetes inducing effects of high-fat, high-carb meals ?

At this point I'm strongly considering a few possibilities :

_ more fat (maybe not hard cheese) may shrink my waistline and decrease water retention, high starch lowish fat led to rapid chest and even abdominal hair growth .
_ yolks may be particularly good despite the pufas, maybe all the benefits are from them.
_ more fat does stimulate digestion, 15g being too little for benefits. 20-25 grams being better, more than 35gr being very unpleasant, even for dinner (like, obvious cardiovascular unpleasant).
_ the right amount of fat in a meal is very precise, a few grams of difference do have big effects on transit time, but also potential negative ones (reduced erection quality, feeling fat and heavy, having a bad response in the next meal).
_ the transport of endotoxin seen with fat may be a good thing, particularly if digestion improves.
- 15 gr of fat or even less may be ok for breakfast, but more is needed for lunch, (as an aside, this has been discussed many times but eating lunch late can ve awful).
_ perhaps fibers can make up for fat to a certain point (butywrate?).
_fat may help thanks to a toboggan effect when it's not fully absorbed (more sweeping).
_my niacinamide smelt like Parmigiano reggiano rolled under portuguese armpits so I may have experienced none of its benefits in the context of a high carb low fat diet.
_ oj may protect against high starch low fat to a point.

@raypeatclips maybe you have some thoughts to share on fat in the diet, energy, digestion etc..? I know you enjoyed james iv posts and so did I.

A lot of people report dry skin on low-fat.

I think fat internally has many of the same effects as fat applied to to the skin (moisturizer.)

Internally and externally, fats insulate and "moisturize" you (they keep water in.) I think keeping the colon wall somewhat moist is also probably conducive to good BMs. I think sufficient dietary fat can keep your cells properly moisturized and make you LESS prone to bloating/water retention due to adequate hydration.
If I consume a lot of scratchy dry fiber like coconut flour or even too much psyllium, it has the opposite effect - it is slightly constipating. Whereas in smaller doses fiber helps you poop. Adding fat to a meal always seems to make the meal easier to pass. I also believe digestion is more "complete" in a meal with fat in it. The fat stimulates the gallbladder which kind of kickstarts the entire digestive process, even if your meal is mostly carb (like a big bowl of rice with just a spoonful of butter.)

I imagine there are many benefits to fat that we will discover in the future. I know from personal experience that too many PUFAs and not enough fat in general caused significant depression/mood dysregulation for me when I was a low-fat Vegan.
 

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