Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[shine]

What I like to do is to alternate between certain combos which I have found to be very effective for me.

Pansterone (2 drops on scrotum) + Androsterone (1 drop on arms/shoulders) - once or twice daily
Kuinone (2 drops on scrotum) + Tribulus Terrestris extract 300mg - once or twice daily
Pregnenolone (50mg orally) + LJ-100 Tongkat Ali extract 100mg - once daily

Tongkat Ali increases 17-20-lyase and thus more Preg/Prog gets converted to androgens.

When I was taking Pansterone+Androsterone daily for longer periods of time I got joint issues, but alternating between these combos fixed that issue while also maintaining positive effects regarding strength, libido and mental clarity.

 

[A.R]

What I like to do is to alternate between certain combos which I have found to be very effective for me.

Pansterone (2 drops on scrotum) + Androsterone (1 drop on arms/shoulders) - once or twice daily
Kuinone (2 drops on scrotum) + Tribulus Terrestris extract 300mg - once or twice daily
Pregnenolone (50mg orally) + LJ-100 Tongkat Ali extract 100mg - once daily

Tongkat Ali increases 17-20-lyase and thus more Preg/Prog gets converted to androgens.

When I was taking Pansterone+Androsterone daily for longer periods of time I got joint issues, but alternating between these combos fixed that issue while also maintaining positive effects regarding strength, libido and mental clarity.

Great post. Nice to see you combining herbs along with steroids
Have you had any problems with potential suppression?

 

[shine]

Great post. Nice to see you combining herbs along with steroids
Have you had any problems with potential suppression?

Not really. The herbs are said to increase LH/FSH so when switching from the Pan/Andro combo to the herb combos any potential suppression should be abolished. This is of course bro science but judging by how I feel and the size of my balls there is no suppression.

 

[Mauritio]

...or suppressed LH/FSH from increased androgen synthesis. Bodybuilders (ab)using non-aromatizable AAS like trenbolone, methenolone or even Proviron/DHT know quite well how quickly the testicles shrink when these steroids are used in sufficiently high doses. Androsterone/DHEA convert easily to DHT and may be raising DHT levels to the point where it triggers negative feedback. Estrogen is usually more suppressive than non-aromatizable androgens but the latter suppress too. I posted a study just a few days ago showing HED of 0.15mg/kg androsterone administered for 5 days suppressed LH by 40%.

it sounds a bit if that was bad ,in this post... but doesn't peat think suppressing Pituitary hormones is a rather good thing?

 

[baccheion]

it sounds a bit if that was bad ,in this post... but doesn't peat think suppressing Pituitary hormones is a rather good thing?

Would they be suppressed period or suppressed with androgens near the top of the range? What replaces HGH?

 

[Redbird]

Are there any blood logs demonstrating the effectiveness of this compounds used in unison? I found one on this thread but upon following the link, he didn't post any afters of bloodwork, and it deviated off the protocol eventually ending with a discussion on some other supplements.

Also in regards to the OP of this thread: How long to start experiencing clinically significant increases of Test? How long to reach peak testosterone levels?

Would cycling be necessary?

 

[haidut]

Are there any blood logs demonstrating the effectiveness of this compounds used in unison? I found one on this thread but upon following the link, he didn't post any afters of bloodwork, and it deviated off the protocol eventually ending with a discussion on some other supplements.

Also in regards to the OP of this thread: How long to start experiencing clinically significant increases of Test? How long to reach peak testosterone levels?

Would cycling be necessary?

Each study listed in the thread had different duration. So, not sure how long this has to be done for but usually if there are positive effects they are visible within the first 2-3 days. No need to cycle as pregenolone/DHEA and vitamin K are not known to cause suppression, but taking a week of a break every 3-4 weeks of use is probably a good idea for any supplement.
As far as blood tests, there are reports in the Pansterone thread showing higher T and in the androsterone thread VERY high DHT.

 

[Healthia]

Each study listed in the thread had different duration. So, not sure how long this has to be done for but usually if there are positive effects they are visible within the first 2-3 days. No need to cycle as pregenolone/DHEA and vitamin K are not known to cause suppression, but taking a week of a break every 3-4 weeks of use is probably a good idea for any supplement.
As far as blood tests, there are reports in the Pansterone thread showing higher T and in the androsterone thread VERY high DHT.

I have had amazing success with massively increased libido using the Vitamin K and Pansterone on scrotum. Because I am currently single I have to take 2-3 day breaks from it because all I can think about is sex after a few days of applying it daily. It’s the kind of crazy sex drive I had in my late teens early twenties (I’m currently 53). I’ve read this entire 20 page thread at least 4 times and I think some clarification would help a lot of people. On another thread I had asked you what you estimated the absorption percentage to be with the new ethanol formulation of Pansterone. You had replied (and I’m paraphrasing) “approximately 50%”. A lot of the scrotum application instructions for drops/mg and application frequency in this thread were made during the time that Pansterone was using DMSO with a much higher absorption rate. I have seen recommendations in this thread for once a day application, once a day 3 times a week application, and also multiple times a day application. This is all very confusing. I don’t want to make this too complex of a question and obviously there are too many variables to come up with a precise dosing recommendation, but using the new ethanol version of Pansterone could you give some recommendations on the following factitious subject:

Sex: Male
Weight: 100 lbs
Testicle weight: average

I’m using the round number of 100 lbs so that people can do the math to increase dosage if it is based on weight. Also used “average” testicle weight so that people can apply less or more depending their testicles weight.

I guess the things that I have noticed that need clarification are:

How many applications per day:
How many drops/mg:
How many days per week:

And thank you for bringing these products to market. I tried everything I could over a 5 year period to regain my libido and these products did it. I’m so grateful to you and all you have done to help this community.

 

[Momado965]

Possibly, other people similar more pronounced effect when applied to scrotum but not much effect when applied to shoulders or other body areas. I think pregnenolone and DHEA should work no matter where they are applied but the goal of the scrotal application is to stimulate the Leydig cells and get them working again since this should reverse the functional hypogonadism that most hypothyroid people are stuck in. When you apply to other body parts, plasma steroid levels usually take 6-12 months to start rising since the steroids get extensively metabolized into specific tissues and plasma levels only rise when enough raw material has reached the gonads and they start producing more androgens.

Should one application suffice for functional gonadism or should application continue a few weeks?

 

[Redbird]

Each study listed in the thread had different duration. So, not sure how long this has to be done for but usually if there are positive effects they are visible within the first 2-3 days. No need to cycle as pregenolone/DHEA and vitamin K are not known to cause suppression, but taking a week of a break every 3-4 weeks of use is probably a good idea for any supplement.
As far as blood tests, there are reports in the Pansterone thread showing higher T and in the androsterone thread VERY high DHT.

Do you have a link(s) to the specific blood tests you're referencing?

 

[ddjd]

Using steroids (pregnenolone, DHEA) and vitamin K2 (MK-4) dissolved in DMSO, and applying directly to the scrotum is likely to increase serum androgen (T, DHT, Androstenedione) levels significantly more than using the same chemicals orally or topically (not applied to the scrotum).

haidut I was wondering why you don't discuss CYP11A and the ability of k2 mk4 to increase androgens, in the Kuinone thread?

 

[Gone Peating]

haidut I was wondering why you don't discuss CYP11A and the ability of k2 mk4 to increase androgens, in the Kuinone thread?

it's definitely discussed in there lol

 

[Redbird]

If anyone has links to the blood tests haidut referenced above that would be greatly appreciated.

@Healthia One of the threads I found was yours I believe, but it spiraled off into a totally different conversation about all kinds of other things so it was tough for me to glean much in regards to this protocal haha.

Do you know of any references to threads with blood tests/logs with specifically this protocol or something very close?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I have just ordered Pansterone + Kuinone and wanted to tick a few concerns:

• will taking Pansterone / Preg. + DHEA not interfere with my natural production of these hormones? And will I be ok if / once I stop taking it or reduce the dosage? So taking this stuff is not like taking TRT or anabolic steroids, right?
• Could Pansterone, under certain conditions or a certain hormonal profile, affect my hair (DHT & 5ar influence)?
• If I successfully raise my T levels using it, am I still 'natty'?

Also, should I get blood tests before using it?
I never measured my DHEA or Pregnenolone levels, but I do have low Testosterone, low free Testosterone and lowish pituitary hormones.

Thanks

 

[invictus]

I've got DHEA and pregnenolone, so today, rubbed tiny doses of both, in olive oil, onto my scrotum, along with 400 IU of vitamin D, which always increases my body temperature. I'm 69 and into my 2nd year of rx testosterone injections; 100 mg, IM, weekly. My urologist is progressive, but I'm just not doing well and we're both frustrated by my poor response. It's as if my body doesn't 'see' the increased test. Haven't seen a return of erectile function, gaining weight, still trying to turn around metabolic syndrome. I've read two papers that seem to indicate that exogenous testosterone can suppress leptin and induce negative effects in the HPA. Using tiny doses of DHEA and pregnenolone two or three times a week might be more efficacious.

 

[invictus]

A few people who posted their labs results on Pansterone showed lower SHBG and high free T.

How about adding 500 to 1ooo mg of magnesium, orally, along with the topicals? I've read magnesium binds to SHBG, thus freeing up protein bound testosterone. Following your post about adding pregnenolone to improve magnesium absorption, I can now tolerate over a gram of magnesium without loose stools. So far I've noticed a decrease in appetite and apparently better glycogen retention, since I can get by on three meals a day and no longer wake up during the night. Thank you, haidut.

 

[baccheion]

I've got DHEA and pregnenolone, so today, rubbed tiny doses of both, in olive oil, onto my scrotum, along with 400 IU of vitamin D, which always increases my body temperature. I'm 69 and into my 2nd year of rx testosterone injections; 100 mg, IM, weekly. My urologist is progressive, but I'm just not doing well and we're both frustrated by my poor response. It's as if my body doesn't 'see' the increased test. Haven't seen a return of erectile function, gaining weight, still trying to turn around metabolic syndrome. I've read two papers that seem to indicate that exogenous testosterone can suppress leptin and induce negative effects in the HPA. Using tiny doses of DHEA and pregnenolone two or three times a week might be more efficacious.

Megadose vitamin D3 is said to oppose metabolic syndrome.

 

[opethfeldt]

I've got DHEA and pregnenolone, so today, rubbed tiny doses of both, in olive oil, onto my scrotum, along with 400 IU of vitamin D, which always increases my body temperature. I'm 69 and into my 2nd year of rx testosterone injections; 100 mg, IM, weekly. My urologist is progressive, but I'm just not doing well and we're both frustrated by my poor response. It's as if my body doesn't 'see' the increased test. Haven't seen a return of erectile function, gaining weight, still trying to turn around metabolic syndrome. I've read two papers that seem to indicate that exogenous testosterone can suppress leptin and induce negative effects in the HPA. Using tiny doses of DHEA and pregnenolone two or three times a week might be more efficacious.

Your estrogen levels may be high. Having high estrogen with high test essentially blocks the good effects of testosterone.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I have had amazing success with massively increased libido using the Vitamin K and Pansterone on scrotum. Because I am currently single I have to take 2-3 day breaks from it because all I can think about is sex after a few days of applying it daily. It’s the kind of crazy sex drive I had in my late teens early twenties (I’m currently 53).

Awesome, man. Thanks for sharing

 

[GreekDemiGod]

If it increases total testosterone as well, it's good, but I would always be careful when playing with androgens. If something significantly increases your ratio of free testosterone to total testosterone, this is very likely a bad sign.

Why do you say this? I've had this exactly happening in my first months of peating. Total T sttayed the same, and measured free T increased by 65% or so.