Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[Soundios]

Have you had labs taken before which would indicate lowered levels of LH and FSH to rule out these being your typical base line levels?

 

[Makrosky]

Have you had labs taken before which would indicate lowered levels of LH and FSH to rule out these being your typical base line levels?

Good question. No, I don't have labs. But what I am sure of is that I produced much more semen. And nothing else like diet or supps changed.

 

[Soundios]

Good question. No, I don't have labs. But what I am sure of is that I produced much more semen. And nothing else like diet or supps changed.

I know this has already been mentioned, but I think is worth reiterating; that if your ejaculation frequency has increased then it stands to reason that your semen volume will also be lower. I'm not ruling out HPTA suppression, but I think it may be worth abstaining from orgasm for a while, or simply dropping back to previous frequencies in order to ascertain which is the most likely scenario.

 

[Makrosky]

I know this has already been mentioned, but I think is worth reiterating; that if your ejaculation frequency has increased then it stands to reason that your semen volume will also be lower. I'm not ruling out HPTA suppression, but I think it may be worth abstaining from orgasm for a while, or simply dropping back to previous frequencies in order to ascertain which is the most likely scenario.

Yeah of course man. The thing is that I ejaculated with the actual frequency before (last year for instance) and it was never like this. That's why I am worried. The fact that other labs seem ok has calmed me down but still... I'm worried.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Yeah of course man. The thing is that I ejaculated with the actual frequency before (last year for instance) and it was never like this. That's why I am worried. The fact that other labs seem ok has calmed me down but still... I'm worried.

it comes back. It is a result of "health issues" and once things are back to normal volume comes back to normal.

 

[raypeatclips]

Yeah of course man. The thing is that I ejaculated with the actual frequency before (last year for instance) and it was never like this. That's why I am worried. The fact that other labs seem ok has calmed me down but still... I'm worried.

Do you have any worries other than the semen volume? So many factors go into semen volume imo. Ejaculation frequency as already mentioned. Sex Vs masturbation, sex semen volumes are significantly higher in my experience. Hydration levels, session length, amount of stimulation. How much protein I've eaten that day (I think still not 100% on this) etc

Is the difference hugely different, like previously was a fire hose but now it just coughs?

 

[Soundios]

Yeah of course man. The thing is that I ejaculated with the actual frequency before (last year for instance) and it was never like this. That's why I am worried. The fact that other labs seem ok has calmed me down but still... I'm worried.

The best course of action then, I imagine would be to cease the supplementation that you believe may be the concerning issue, and get re-tested in a couple of months to ascertain if it is indeed HPTA suppression and to put your mind at rest whatever the result.

 

[Makrosky]

@ecstatichamster thanks for your support guys.
@raypeatclips There's not a huge difference but a very noticeable difference, yes.
@Soundios yes that's my plan. However I have a new piece of the puzzle.

The results came surprisingly fast, here are the two results that were missing :

Estrone (E1) : 120,8 pg/mL (25,1-91,4 pg/mL)
DHT : 0,70 ng/dL (0,25-0,99 ng/dL)

So..... ******* high estrone! :-(

 

[Lucenzo01]

@ecstatichamster thanks for your support guys.
@raypeatclips There's not a huge difference but a very noticeable difference, yes.
@Soundios yes that's my plan. However I have a new piece of the puzzle.

The results came surprisingly fast, here are the two results that were missing :

Estrone (E1) : 120,8 pg/mL (25,1-91,4 pg/mL)
DHT : 0,70 ng/dL (0,25-0,99 ng/dL)

So..... ******* high estrone! :-(

Have you checked E1S?

 

[Makrosky]

Have you checked E1S?

I tried but my lab doesn't offer that :-(

Do you have any tips for lowering that ASAP ? I know aspirin reduces levels.

 

[Lucenzo01]

I tried but my lab doesn't offer that :-(

Do you have any tips for lowering that ASAP ? I know aspirin reduces levels.

Yeah, Aspirin should work in theory. Didn't work for me and I tried everything to make it possible.

If you want a shock method biotin in large doses has provoked abortions due to completely stopping oestrogen production. 300 mg for day are used for ME successful and safely. For a long term approach this forum has a lot of valuable information and a little of niacinamide con go a long way.

 

[Makrosky]

Yeah, Aspirin should work in theory. Didn't work for me and I tried everything to make it possible.

If you want a shock method biotin in large doses has provoked abortions due to completely stopping oestrogen production. 300 mg for day are used for ME successful and safely. For a long term approach this forum has a lot of valuable information and a little of niacinamide con go a long way.

Thanks a lot Lucenzo, so you also had high estrone levels ?
Do you have more info on the Biotin thing ? You tried it yourself with sucessful results ?
Yeah I know the typical methods like increasing thyroid, etc..it has discussed in the forum many times. I would like more like a "shock method" as you said. Just to quickly reduce the estrone load at least to normal ranges. This is freaking me out.

 

[Soundios]

Thanks a lot Lucenzo, so you also had high estrone levels ?
Do you have more info on the Biotin thing ? You tried it yourself with sucessful results ?
Yeah I know the typical methods like increasing thyroid, etc..it has discussed in the forum many times. I would like more like a "shock method" as you said. Just to quickly reduce the estrone load at least to normal ranges. This is freaking me out.

Quick question, what is your body fat percentage if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Makrosky]

Quick question, what is your body fat percentage if you don't mind me asking?

I don't mind. I don't know the exact number but I am not fat at all, quite the opposite. Skinny in fact. I don't have much fat anywhere neither in my belly. I have been like that since I was a teenager. Why you ask?

 

[Soundios]

I don't mind. I don't know the exact number but I am not fat at all, quite the opposite. Skinny in fact. I don't have much fat anywhere neither in my belly. I have been like that since I was a teenager. Why you ask?

The reason I ask is that my understanding is the DHEA metabolite androstenedione converts to either testosterone or estrone, with the estrone conversion occurring in the fat cells, so I just wanted to rule out excess bodyfat as a causative factor.

 

[Makrosky]

The reason I ask is that my understanding is the DHEA metabolite androstenedione converts to either testosterone or estrone, with the estrone conversion occurring in the fat cells, so I just wanted to rule out excess bodyfat as a causative factor.

But I think this all started when using DHEA so even if I don't have that much fat I think it is the causative factor. Either DHEA turning to estrogen or either the testosterone excess being aromatized to estrogen.

 

[ecstatichamster]

when T is high this way, estrogen is high. Estrone is a storage form of T and I think the body gets rid of active estradiol this way.

 

[Makrosky]

when T is high this way, estrogen is high. Estrone is a storage form of T and I think the body gets rid of active estradiol this way.

So do you think they should come down both together as I normalize things and stop using pro-testosterone stuff ?

 

[Lucenzo01]

Thanks a lot Lucenzo, so you also had high estrone levels ?
Do you have more info on the Biotin thing ? You tried it yourself with sucessful results ?
Yeah I know the typical methods like increasing thyroid, etc..it has discussed in the forum many times. I would like more like a "shock method" as you said. Just to quickly reduce the estrone load at least to normal ranges. This is freaking me out.

No, I never had high oestrogen levels. All my tests were in the middle of the range. I was referring to aspirin, I felt good with it in the short run but at the third day I always crash.

I have tried biotin before although not in high doses. I felt nothing but it wasn't but either, probably higher doses are needed to feel it. Niacinamide and Vitamin C have been the most helpful things to counteract estrogen for me.

Ray Peat has spoken a lot about the "inactivation" of oestrogen and one of the ways it's making it water-soluble and that process involves taurine. Glycine has been proven too to reduce the tissues load of estrogen. All the fat-solubles are great for the liver (specially A), and proper levels of osteocalcin (vitamin A, D and k2 are needed to make it) are needed to inactivate oestrogen. Vitamin E acts on the receptor and it's great to counter-act oestrogen. Riboflavin and thiamine are needed to expel oestrogen but maybe there is no need to supplement if your diet is adequate. Vitamin C it's needed to produce progesterone (it opposes estrogen) and a subclinical scurvy (like Linus Pauline liked to name it) can paralyze any possible progress. Just throwing out ideas so maybe you can get something out of it.

 

[Makrosky]

No, I never had high oestrogen levels. All my tests were in the middle of the range. I was referring to aspirin, I felt good with it in the short run but at the third day I always crash.

I have tried biotin before although not in high doses. I felt nothing but it wasn't but either, probably higher doses are needed to feel it. Niacinamide and Vitamin C have been the most helpful things to counteract estrogen for me.

Ray Peat has spoken a lot about the "inactivation" of oestrogen and one of the ways it's making it water-soluble and that process involves taurine. Glycine has been proven too to reduce the tissues load of estrogen. All the fat-solubles are great for the liver (specially A), and proper levels of osteocalcin (vitamin A, D and k2 are needed to make it) are needed to inactivate oestrogen. Vitamin E acts on the receptor and it's great to counter-act oestrogen. Riboflavin and thiamine are needed to expel oestrogen but maybe there is no need to supplement if your diet is adequate. Vitamin C it's needed to produce progesterone (it opposes estrogen) and a subclinical scurvy (like Linus Pauline liked to name it) can paralyze any possible progress. Just throwing out ideas so maybe you can get something out of it.

Of course I'm getting ideas. Thanks a lot man. My worries now with fat solubles and taurine is that they can also increase testosterone! I don't want more testosterone in my system right now, specifically because I suspect some of it might have been aromatized to estrogen or as ecstatichamster says they go up hand in hand. I take those B-vitamins daily. I'm not sure I should use glycine either because it increases 5-AR activity and I don't want more hormones going up. If you see my labs, all of the main ones we always discuss in the forum seem OK.