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David PS

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maybe also of interest:

QUININE THERAPY IN CASES OF MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD June 1935​


Is multiple sclerosis caused by a silent infection with malarial parasites? A historico-epidemiological approach: part II​


The comparison between the old map of malaria and the later distribution of multiple sclerosis (MS) first carried out in the USA (Part I) is continued in Europe. The Italian 'dilemma' (Kurtzke), meaning the disappearance of the north-south gradient in Italy by recent surveys, can be solved when considering the dependence of malaria transmission in relation to the altitude. Further, the high prevalence of MS in earlier times in Mississippi, Louisiana and in the former province of Lucania in Italy can be explained by preceding epidemics of malaria. Brickner's therapeutic trial with quinine in cases of MS patients is reevaluated, and by this the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is shown to exist in MS too. The possible significance of the old and rather forgotten provocative methods for the diagnosis of latent malaria is discussed.

Thanks, I had to find a map for myself. I am wondering if a gain-of-function strain of malaria could revive the prevalence of malaria in parts of the world shown in the old maps.

Previous-prevalence-of-malaria-world-map-1.png
 

haidut

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What do you think of this Haidut with regards to the last study? The link does not lead to anywhere but I found another link to it here DEFINE_ME

The patient also had a colonic tumor so it could be the case that this was the cause of the internal bleeding and not the Quinine from the tonic water. It says he was drinking 1.9 liters of tonic water daily for 2-3 weeks don't know how much Quinine this would be equivalent too as it does not specify the amount of quinine in said tonic water.

When the British Empire was in its prime, they were conquering tropical regions of the world and imbibing tons of tonic water daily (with or without gin). The original British tonic water has a quinine content of 300mg-500mg per liter, with the average conquering British imperialist imbibing at least a liter of it daily, and there is no record of that amount causing issues in the vast majority of the population. It may be worth asking Peat what amount of quinine he thinks is safe, but if you look at the published case studies on quinine, there are probably 20-30 of them total, against billions of people consuming it for ages and continuing to consume it. Disclaimer - I am not making any claims of safety or effectiveness here.
 

Karmeleon

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1649898053524.png
This one sounds quite good, anyone else got good Quinine WIne-Cocktail recipes also gives an idea of dosage for tonic purpose - if a grain is still about 65mg
that should make 8 ounces for one drink as 8x65mg Quinine Hcl = 520mg. Quite about in Range what Haidut suggested for British Imperial Tonic dosages.
Cheers 🍷🥃
 

Kman

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When the British Empire was in its prime, they were conquering tropical regions of the world and imbibing tons of tonic water daily (with or without gin). The original British tonic water has a quinine content of 300mg-500mg per liter, with the average conquering British imperialist imbibing at least a liter of it daily, and there is no record of that amount causing issues in the vast majority of the population. It may be worth asking Peat what amount of quinine he thinks is safe, but if you look at the published case studies on quinine, there are probably 20-30 of them total, against billions of people consuming it for ages and continuing to consume it. Disclaimer - I am not making any claims of safety or effectiveness here.
I've asked Ray about this. He advises caution and *very* small amounts (about 2mg at a time), see below.

Our conversation was about Quinine HCL specifically (I think other forms like quinine sulfate are taken in larger amounts):

Me - "Hi Ray,

Do you think pure Quinine HCL is safe in very small doses?

I managed to get my hands on some pharma grade Quinine HCL (99.8% pure, according to the CoA)...."

RP - "I think it should be used in extremely small amounts, as.a digestive stimulant."

Me - "Thanks Ray. How small is extremely small? 1mg?

There's apparently up to 80mg approx in a litre of tonic water as an upper limit. So that would be 10mg per glass, at the most.

I found a study that demonstrated problems with quinine hcl at more than 160mg per day."

RP - "I think tonic water should be used only in small amounts, about an ounce at a time, unless it’s for treating a viral infection."

Me - "That's helpful to know, thanks Ray - that would work out to about 2 - 2.5mg of Quinine HCL if one used the established limit of 80mg/L for tonic water.

I've noticed in the past that even a single glass of tonic water (store bought) has caused sleep issues, even though quinine is touted to improve sleep.

What would you say are the dangers of going beyond those very small amounts?"

RP - "People vary in their sensitivity, Rhabdomyolysis and other bleeding disorders are risks."
 
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I've asked Ray about this. He advises caution and *very* small amounts (about 2mg at a time), see below.

Our conversation was about Quinine HCL specifically (I think other forms like quinine sulfate are taken in larger amounts):

Me - "Hi Ray,

Do you think pure Quinine HCL is safe in very small doses?

I managed to get my hands on some pharma grade Quinine HCL (99.8% pure, according to the CoA)...."

RP - "I think it should be used in extremely small amounts, as.a digestive stimulant."

Me - "Thanks Ray. How small is extremely small? 1mg?

There's apparently up to 80mg approx in a litre of tonic water as an upper limit. So that would be 10mg per glass, at the most.

I found a study that demonstrated problems with quinine hcl at more than 160mg per day."

RP - "I think tonic water should be used only in small amounts, about an ounce at a time, unless it’s for treating a viral infection."

Me - "That's helpful to know, thanks Ray - that would work out to about 2 - 2.5mg of Quinine HCL if one used the established limit of 80mg/L for tonic water.

I've noticed in the past that even a single glass of tonic water (store bought) has caused sleep issues, even though quinine is touted to improve sleep.

What would you say are the dangers of going beyond those very small amounts?"

RP - "People vary in their sensitivity, Rhabdomyolysis and other bleeding disorders are risks."
Did Ray just party-pooped the whole thread? xdd
 

tastyfood

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This would partly explain why tonic water is sold mostly as a mixer, and not something to drink in copious amounts on its own?
 

haidut

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Did Ray just party-pooped the whole thread? xdd

How so? If I am reading it correctly, he suggests even very small amounts are probably sufficient to produce an effect (which is great news), with higher doses necessitated only by things like viral infections.
 

Kman

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How so? If anything, he suggests even very small amounts are effective/beneficial, which is great news.
Yeah I think so.

Ray also seems to be suggesting that (perhaps based on his own experience with people) individual tolerances can vary a lot.

Maybe some people thrive on 10 or 20 or even 50mg a day of Quinine HCL a day, but it would still be wise to start with very small doses anyway, just in case you're someone who does really well on 2mg but starts noticing problematic side effects at 3 or 4mg.

I suppose someone could take 10mg thinking it's only a tiny dose, get a bad reaction, and then give up on a substance that would be therapeutic for them in smaller doses.

Georgi - is your product Quinine HCL or Quinine Sulfate or something else? And how much per drop? I can't see the usual details in the OP.
 
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How so? If I am reading it correctly, he suggests even very small amounts are probably sufficient to produce an effect (which is great news), with higher doses necessitated only by things like viral infections.
Yeeeeeah, kind of. But the positive effect of a small dose to be "only" as a "digestive stimulant" and nothing else?
We here discussed using higher doses and aiming at bigger things and the fact that we can get our "daily dose" from an ounce of tonic water makes the supplemental quinine... redundant?

He was seemingly very worried about exceeding "low dose" unless treating some viral infection so that's not encouraging me to experiment further. [I was drinking around 0,5l of tonic water a day for the past 5 days, planning to increase the dose]
 

haidut

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Yeah I think so.

Ray also seems to be suggesting that (perhaps based on his own experience with people) individual tolerances can vary a lot.

Maybe some people thrive on 10 or 20 or even 50mg a day of Quinine HCL a day, but it would still be wise to start with very small doses anyway, just in case you're someone who does really well on 2mg but starts noticing problematic side effects at 3 or 4mg.

I suppose someone could take 10mg thinking it's only a tiny dose, get a bad reaction, and then give up on a substance that would be therapeutic for them in smaller doses.

Georgi - is your product Quinine HCL or Quinine Sulfate or something else? And how much per drop? I can't see the usual details in the OP.

It is HCL.
 

Dolomite

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I've asked Ray about this. He advises caution and *very* small amounts (about 2mg at a time), see below.

Our conversation was about Quinine HCL specifically (I think other forms like quinine sulfate are taken in larger amounts):

Me - "Hi Ray,

Do you think pure Quinine HCL is safe in very small doses?

I managed to get my hands on some pharma grade Quinine HCL (99.8% pure, according to the CoA)...."

RP - "I think it should be used in extremely small amounts, as.a digestive stimulant."

Me - "Thanks Ray. How small is extremely small? 1mg?

There's apparently up to 80mg approx in a litre of tonic water as an upper limit. So that would be 10mg per glass, at the most.

I found a study that demonstrated problems with quinine hcl at more than 160mg per day."

RP - "I think tonic water should be used only in small amounts, about an ounce at a time, unless it’s for treating a viral infection."

Me - "That's helpful to know, thanks Ray - that would work out to about 2 - 2.5mg of Quinine HCL if one used the established limit of 80mg/L for tonic water.

I've noticed in the past that even a single glass of tonic water (store bought) has caused sleep issues, even though quinine is touted to improve sleep.

What would you say are the dangers of going beyond those very small amounts?"

RP - "People vary in their sensitivity, Rhabdomyolysis and other bleeding disorders are risks."
We were drinking 6 oz of tonic water daily (without alcohol) in September 2020 for about 1 month when my husband cut his finger and it took a longer than normal time to clot. The only change in our diet was the tonic water. He did not go to the doctor and we quit the tonic water and in about a month a shaving nick stopped bleeding in normal time. I found a case study on pubmed about a man who used quinine and developed thrombocytopenia that they thought might be due to antibodies to the quinine that also attacked the platelets. I didn’t encounter any problems myself. As with any supplement it helps to be observant.
 
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I'm starting to suspect that a few drops of quinine in the belly button causes some constipation. Anyone else experiencing this?
 

area51puy

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I took a few drops and got a instant energy boost , not like you would get from caffeine, felt like an natural energy boost.
 

bluefish

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As usual..: can some one in simple plan English explain what this may be helpful for?
 

Soren

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I'm starting to suspect that a few drops of quinine in the belly button causes some constipation. Anyone else experiencing this?

Similar to what can happen with other anti-serotonin's I think. Cypro has done this to people I know on a occasion.
 

Jam

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As usual..: can some one in simple plan English explain what this may be helpful for?
Main Actions (in order):
antimalarial, bitter digestive aid, antiparasitic, antispasmodic, febrifuge (reduces fever)

Main Uses:

  1. 1. for malaria
  2. 2. as a bitter digestive aid to stimulate digestive juices
  3. 3. for nocturnal leg cramps
  4. 4. for intestinal parasites and protozoa
  5. 5. for arrhythmia and other heart conditions
Properties/Actions Documented by Research:
anti-arrhythmic, antimalarial, antiparasitic, antiprotozoal, antispasmodic, bitter digestive aid, cardiotonic (tones, balances, strengthens the heart)
Other Properties/Actions Documented by Traditional Use:
amebicide, analgesic (pain-reliever), antibacterial, antifungal, antiseptic, astringent, digestive stimulant, febrifuge (reduces fever), insecticide, nervine (balances/calms nerves), neurasthenic (reduces nerve pain)
 

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