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haidut

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Just a placeholder thread for now, until I organize all the references I think would be interesting/relevant to post here. For now, a quote from Peat on a recent interview about quinine and inflammation/ACE2, a very long thread/discussion in regards to quinine's anti-serotonin effects, and some studies showing quinine is also capable of acting similar to Meldonium - i.e. it blocks carnitine uptake into the cell (by inhibiting the organic cation transporter 2 (OCTN2 / OCT2) and thus lowers fatty acid oxidation (FAO).
More coming soon:):

1. Effects on inflammation
"...Q: Hello Dr. Peat
What do you think of the "Innate immune system" and it's suppression and activation? Does it even exist and can you actually activate it or suppress it?

I hear a lot of doctors using angiotensin II receptor blockers like losartan and olmesartan just to name a few using it to improve innate immune response.
What is your take on it?


RP: Those do help; also quinine..."

2. Effects on serotonin (5-HT)

3. Effects on fatty acid oxidation (FAO)
"...Meldonium (3-(2,2,2-trimethylhydrazinium)propionate) is the most potent clinically used inhibitor of organic cation transporter 2 (OCTN2). Inhibition of OCTN2 leads to a decrease in carnitine and acylcarnitine contents in tissues and energy metabolism optimization-related cardioprotective effects."
"...Meldonium can also inhibit OCTN2-mediated l-carnitine reabsorption in the liver and brain.29 OCTN2 is expressed in proximal tubule renal cells, and it prevents transport from the lumen to the bloodstream by an unknown carrier."
Quinine: Uses, Interactions, Mechanism of Action | DrugBank Online (see subsection "3. Solute carrier family 22 member 5")
"... Inhibition experiments at different pH levels strongly suggest that the weak base quinine passively permeates the plasma membrane at physiological pH and inhibits rOCT2 from the intracellular side."
"...Quinine (1 mM), inhibitor of organic cation transporters, and carnitine (0.1 mM), substrate of the Na(+)-dependent carnitine transporter OCTN2, tended to reduce acetylcholine release (by 40%, not significant). "
"...Quinine, an inhibitor of organic cation transporters (OCT), reduced acetylcholine release in a reversible and concentration-dependent manner with an IC(50) value of 5 microM."
 
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Kram

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I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?

 

haidut

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I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?


Most of the Wikipedia edits on side effects are very recent, over the last 2 years, which to me is quite suspicious. Looking at the side effects listed there, most of the references discuss them in the context of malaria treatment, which typically uses 600mg quinine 3-4 times daily. Those are very high doses.
In addition, there are many products on the market with cinchona bark and I have yet to see a study reporting serious side effects from such products, yet they contain quinine amounts sufficient to reach the malaria doses if used more than once daily.
 

laleto12

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Only thing that Im concerned with that studies says it lowers testosterone.

I think they are on rats but..
 

haidut

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Only thing that Im concerned with that studies says it lowers testosterone.

I think they are on rats but..

Some other researchers did a human study in order to confirm/refute the effects you mention were found in rats, and the results were negative - i.e. quinine in doses of 1,800mg daily (which was much higher than the HED used in the rat studies) did not have a negative effects on androgens levels of sperm parameters.
"...No statistical significant effect of these drugs on sperm count, percentage sperm forward motility and blood levels of testosterone were observed when pre-treatment results were compared with post-treatment and 65th day results as well as when results of quinine and chloroquine treated groups were compared with those of control group. The suggestion by disparate in vivo animal and in vitro studies that the short term use of these drugs to treat malaria may be associated with fertility changes as a result of their inherent anti-spermatogenic effects have not been collaborated by this study in adult men."
 

haidut

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NewACC

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Hello, @haidut do you plan to replenish your assortment with some new products in the near future? What direction of additives will be? And one more question about your product pansteron, is it useful for PCT? Also, what dosages of lisuride and metergoline in combination would you recommend for a person with severe hyperprolactinemia (I know that your products are not discussed in any treatment context)?
 

haidut

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Hello, @haidut do you plan to replenish your assortment with some new products in the near future? What direction of additives will be? And one more question about your product pansteron, is it useful for PCT? Also, what dosages of lisuride and metergoline in combination would you recommend for a person with severe hyperprolactinemia (I know that your products are not discussed in any treatment context)?

I just did replenish the product list - with quinine:):
As far as other replenishments - I do not discuss upcoming product releases as that leads to constant emails/calls from people asking "is it ready yet?". When there is a new product ready, I announce it on the forum.
As far as the other questions - I cannot answer them legally both because that would be giving "medical advice" (which I am not allowed to do) and because they are sold as lab/R&D products not advertised for human consumption, Also, they should not be posted here but in the respective threads.
 

NewACC

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I just did replenish the product list - with quinine:):
As far as other replenishments - I do not discuss upcoming product releases as that leads to constant emails/calls from people asking "is it ready yet?". When there is a new product ready, I announce it on the forum.
As far as the other questions - I cannot answer them legally both because that would be giving "medical advice" (which I am not allowed to do) and because they are sold as lab/R&D products not advertised for human consumption, Also, they should not be posted here but in the respective threads
@haidut ok, thanks a lot and sorry for the offtopic! With great respect!
 

Lampshard

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I know wikipedia isn't the most reliable but there is a lot of discussion about side effects. Is this mostly an issue with dosage?


Many "new" drugs on the market (Metformin, serotonic Alzheimers meds, most SSRIs, etc.) are basically "demonic" substances that ruin the organism consuming them in a variety of ways, maybe having some almost accidental benefit, so it's normal for consumers to be very wary of inevitable "side effects" of any thing they take, but this is also easily exploitable by the industry by inventing all sorts of scary-sounding side effects to discredit traditional medicines as quinine (for example a lot of people are genuinely convinced taking a single dose of aspirin will give them an ulcer). Most truly beneficial substances such as progesterone basically have no drawbacks. I am extremely skeptical on quinine being dangerous to anyone here's rat and plan to make mine some tonic water. Congratulations to Mr. Dinkov for continuing to expand his library of offered substances.
 

haidut

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haidut

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Back when I was researching quinine I found this page from 1908 that references Euquinine Quinine ethyl carbonate a form of quinine.

Out of curiosity what form is this product?

It's just another quinine salt/ester that was used in the past. If you Google it, you will find pages discussing it.
 
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Wow I feel pretty happy my thread and email exchange with RP was shared in the Georgies original post. It means I asked the right questions.
Serbo-Bulgarian Slavic connection :happy: xd
 

haidut

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Niacin, Thiamine, Nicotine, Choline, Arginine, Creatine, Aldosterone, Dopamine, Acetylcholine, etc. also appear to be OCT2 inhibitors.

Good find, thanks. Pregnenolone, progesterone and testosterone are also OCTN2 inhibitors. Notably, the estrogens are not, which is another explanation as to why they promote heart disease and cancer.
 

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