Questions On DIY Topical B Vitamins

[snacks]

At the higher doses, it's clear I'm getting some benefit from the topical B vitamins, but I'm still experiencing the symptoms I associate with low B1 for a large part of the day.

This happened to me but the fix may be easy. Make sure you space out your caffeine intake, though this really goes for all diuretics and your b-vitamin intake by a few hours. I notice that on very high doses of caffeine ( >.5 grams to about 2 is what I've tried) I have to take vastly more of many things and even though it doesn't make me feel bad it just gets a mite expensive

 

[Creative Nature]

Well, maybe the carrier is the limiting factor. As a next step, I would focus on getting a better carrier. Alcohol penetrates skin much more, than water. It enhances absorbtion. And also dissolves the compound better. Something like 80% ethanol might be optimal.

Thank you; this suggestion makes sense. I'll see if I can find a good solvent with a higher proportion of ethanol.

I've seen quite a few recommendations on this forum to dissolve B vitamins in vodka (including from Georgi and, according to one forum member, RP), so it seems like this method has worked for more than a few people. I wonder what my skin is doing wrong.

 

[Creative Nature]

Ah youre right that could be the issue, vodka is usually about 40% alcohol if im not mistaken, might not be enough

B1 seems to be a bit tricky in any case, not sure if youve read the dr.lonsdale threads, but from what i remember to correct a true lack of B1 may take a while even at high doses

Yes, Lonsdale's work has been very helpful.

I took high doses of B1 (around 200-300 mg 4-5X per day) for a while, and even higher doses temporarily when I was very stressed or sick. (NB: I'm not sure these were the optimal doses for me, and I'm not recommending them to others.) For the last few months, I've needed much less B1, and the thiamine HCl powder and other supplements seem to have irritated my GI tract quite a bit -- hence the switch to topical application. But since I've switched to topical use, some symptoms I associate with low B1 have returned.

 

[Creative Nature]

This happened to me but the fix may be easy. Make sure you space out your caffeine intake, though this really goes for all diuretics and your b-vitamin intake by a few hours. I notice that on very high doses of caffeine ( >.5 grams to about 2 is what I've tried) I have to take vastly more of many things and even though it doesn't make me feel bad it just gets a mite expensive

Thanks for these thoughts, @snacks. I consume very little caffeine -- on average less than 50 mg/day. (I mix a little regular coffee into a lot of decaf.) But if I increase my caffeine intake -- as I hope to do when I've made more progress in fixing my nutritional deficiencies -- I'll keep this advice in mind.

 

[Creative Nature]

Since I'm continuing to struggle to get enough B1 using the method of dissolving thiamine HCl powder in vodka, I'm starting a new experiment: dissolving the fat-soluble TTFD form (allithiamine) in MCT oil.

Thiamax consists of TTFD + magnesium taurate; it does not contain excipients. I broke open a capsule, mixed some of the powder with MCT oil, and applied the mixture to the top of my foot.

Will be interesting to compare the results of the two methods...

 

[BearWithMe]

Since I'm continuing to struggle to get enough B1 using the method of dissolving thiamine HCl powder in vodka, I'm starting a new experiment: dissolving the fat-soluble TTFD form (allithiamine) in MCT oil.

Thiamax consists of TTFD + magnesium taurate; it does not contain excipients. I broke open a capsule, mixed some of the powder with MCT oil, and applied the mixture to the top of my foot.

Will be interesting to compare the results of the two methods...

This is great idea, I would be really curious about your results

 

[Creative Nature]

For the last few days, I've been dissolving the fat-soluble TTFD (allithiamine) form of vitamin B1 in MCT oil and rubbing the mixture onto the tops of my feet and sometimes other parts of my legs. I obtain the TTFD powder by breaking open capsules of Thiamax, which contains just TTFD and magnesium taurate -- no additives. The mixture leaves a bit of residue on my skin; perhaps magnesium taurate isn't very fat-soluble.

The results have been variable but quite good. I feel the effects of the TTFD within roughly 30-90 minutes after applying the mixture. I've been applying about 30-60 mg of TTFD at a time, or even less. Sometimes the effects of the TTFD are mild or barely noticeable (e.g. when I'm very stressed and likely need more TTFD), but I'm not using huge doses.

200-300 mg of thiamine HCl powder in vodka did not work as well for me as ~30 mg of TTFD in MCT oil. I'm not bad-mouthing the technique of dissolving B vitamins in ethanol -- it sounds like RP, Georgi, and others have used this method effectively -- but I could not get it to work well for me. Perhaps because I just started using TTFD topically, I haven't figured out precisely how much I need for the desired effects or how long it will take for the effects to kick in, but otherwise, this method has been great so far.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and encouraged me to keep experimenting.

 

[Andman]

Thanks for sharing your experience, seems like ill have to try the Thiamax soon

by the way, hows your gut doing? any improvements?

 

[Creative Nature]

Thanks for sharing your experience, seems like ill have to try the Thiamax soon

by the way, hows your gut doing? any improvements?

Thanks for asking. Lower GI (reactions to food passing through large intestine) has improved somewhat. Upper GI (reactions to food or supplements shortly after swallowing them) has gotten much worse. This morning, I got an adrenergic reaction just from drinking juice (usually one of the things I tolerate best).

So for now, the priority is fixing the upper GI so I can continue to eat.

 

[Creative Nature]

This is great idea, I would be really curious about your results

Thank you; I appreciate the help and encouragement.

 

[Creative Nature]

My praise of dissolving TTFD in MCT oil may have been a little premature.

After more experimentation, it's clear that topical TTFD in MCT oil works much better for me than thiamine HCl in vodka, but the topical TTFD has been far less effective than oral TTFD, and 200+ mg/day of topical TTFD hasn't been enough to keep me from getting low B1 symptoms...

...So I suspended the topical B vitamin project and started taking low doses of TTFD and niacinamide orally. My low B1 and low B3 symptoms quickly began to fade, and I felt much better...

...and after a few days of oral supplements, I'm getting massive upper GI irritation that causes adrenergic reactions when I swallow food, supplements, or even pills.

The ideal solution would be to find some way to ingest large doses of B1 and niacinamide topically, bypassing my broken upper GI. If anyone has any possible leads, please post. TIA.

 

[Recoen]

My praise of dissolving TTFD in MCT oil may have been a little premature.

After more experimentation, it's clear that topical TTFD in MCT oil works much better for me than thiamine HCl in vodka, but the topical TTFD has been far less effective than oral TTFD, and 200+ mg/day of topical TTFD hasn't been enough to keep me from getting low B1 symptoms...

...So I suspended the topical B vitamin project and started taking low doses of TTFD and niacinamide orally. My low B1 and low B3 symptoms quickly began to fade, and I felt much better...

...and after a few days of oral supplements, I'm getting massive upper GI irritation that causes adrenergic reactions when I swallow food, supplements, or even pills.

The ideal solution would be to find some way to ingest large doses of B1 and niacinamide topically, bypassing my broken upper GI. If anyone has any possible leads, please post. TIA.

Have you tried a suppository?

 

[Creative Nature]

Have you tried a suppository?

No, but I like the out-of-the-box idea. Is absorption likely to be higher via a suppository than via topical application to the skin?

 

[Andman]

Maybe sublingual is worth a try? Might be easier to start with
Sorry to hear that the transdermal route didnt really work out for you, but the fact that you actually took the time to document your results is very helpful and much appreciated!

 

[Recoen]

No, but I like the out-of-the-box idea. Is absorption likely to be higher via a suppository than via topical application to the skin?

I do really well with energin topically, so I haven tried the suppository - my low B1 symptoms don’t return. I take ~20mg some ttfd with dairy daily too. I have experimented with only the energin for a week and my B1D symptoms don’t come back so topical absorption works for me.
I know some have talked about using coconut oil and putting B vitamins inside for the suppository. They say it really helps them especially if they have upper GI issues. Since you’re experimenting, it might be worth trying. Like all new supplements and routes, I would try a low dose first.

 

[Creative Nature]

I do really well with energin topically, so I haven tried the suppository - my low B1 symptoms don’t return. I take ~20mg some ttfd with dairy daily too. I have experimented with only the energin for a week and my B1D symptoms don’t come back so topical absorption works for me.
I know some have talked about using coconut oil and putting B vitamins inside for the suppository. They say it really helps them especially if they have upper GI issues. Since you’re experimenting, it might be worth trying. Like all new supplements and routes, I would try a low dose first.

Thanks, @Recoen. How much energin do you take to keep B1 deficiency symptoms at bay? And where on your skin do you apply energin?

I wonder if my relative lack of success with topical B vitamins means that my liver needs the B vitamins even more than the rest of me does.

It looks like making suppositories isn't too difficult. I have lower GI as well as upper GI problems, so I'll need to proceed cautiously if I try this route. But it's good to know that the option exists.

 

[Creative Nature]

Maybe sublingual is worth a try? Might be easier to start with
Sorry to hear that the transdermal route didnt really work out for you, but the fact that you actually took the time to document your results is very helpful and much appreciated!

Thanks, @Andman. Have you taken B vitamins sublingually? If so, did you just use powdered B vitamins?

 

[Creative Nature]

Yesterday, I had to take a low dose of aspirin, and I found that buffering it with baking soda almost eliminated the stress reaction.

Niacinamide also irritates my upper GI. Does anyone know if buffering it with baking soda would reduce the irritation?

It's starting to look like I may have an ulcer, or the early stages of one.

 

[Recoen]

Thanks, @Recoen. How much energin do you take to keep B1 deficiency symptoms at bay? And where on your skin do you apply energin?

I wonder if my relative lack of success with topical B vitamins means that my liver needs the B vitamins even more than the rest of me does.

It looks like making suppositories isn't too difficult. I have lower GI as well as upper GI problems, so I'll need to proceed cautiously if I try this route. But it's good to know that the option exists.

I put the drops around my navel then use a plastic utensil to “rub” them in. I use it multiple times a day, 2 drops at a time. So I use anywhere from 12-24 drops/d. That’s 14-48mg/d which doesn’t sound like a lot. Before when I took thiamine HCl orally I needed 500+mg/d for my POTs, edema, etc to go away. So there’s definitely something to the transdermal route and getting the B1 into circulation faster that’s beneficial for me. It’s also the only B6 I’ve been able to handle. B6 is needed for B1 to become TPP intracellularly so that could definitely be helping too.

 

[Creative Nature]

I put the drops around my navel then use a plastic utensil to “rub” them in. I use it multiple times a day, 2 drops at a time. So I use anywhere from 12-24 drops/d. That’s 14-48mg/d which doesn’t sound like a lot. Before when I took thiamine HCl orally I needed 500+mg/d for my POTs, edema, etc to go away. So there’s definitely something to the transdermal route and getting the B1 into circulation faster that’s beneficial for me. It’s also the only B6 I’ve been able to handle. B6 is needed for B1 to become TPP intracellularly so that could definitely be helping too.

Thanks, @Recoen. That information helps. Wish I understood why others get much better results from topical B vitamins than I do. Maybe I have an invisible layer of elephant skin. I'll try applying energin around the navel.