Questions About Smoking?

[Emstar1892]

Hey guys,

Bit of a random one here but I'm just really interested in what people here will reply - you lot always seem so insightful!

Obviously we all know the detrimental physical effects of smoking in terms of cancer likelihood, breathing/vascular complications, etc, but what about the effects of the sub stances themselves like nicotine etc? Are they therapeutic? Stressors? Stimulants? Relaxants?

I'm just wondering because I used to smoke, and i remember it somewhat relieving my stress, but perhaps the feeling of stress was CREATED by the chemicals I'd ingested from smoking in the first place. So does smoking cause hormonal havoc?

 

[supernature]

Hi,
There are chemicals in tobacco thats on the market, thats what i was read time ago. As far as i remember those chemicals they spray on the tobacco are one of the main causes of lung cancer, not the fact that the tobacco is being inhaled as general, as long of course there arent any particular difficulties with ones lung function at first place. I guess thats why some people can smoke all their life and never get lung cancer or pulmonary disfunction and others never smoked too much, but their lungs capacity is quite diminished as a whole. I hope that helps in any way.

 

[Greg says]

I think smoking inhibits the breakdown of dopamine so that's probably related to the stress relieving feelings. Also probably related to the reward feelings from smoking. But don't quote me on that.

Smoking
In old people, a little nicotine can have a balancing effect, improving alertness, and probably protecting nerves, for example in the negative association with Parkinson's disease. But in younger people, its vasoconstrictive effect tends to promote the development of wrinkles in the skin, and I think it's likely to contribute to periodontal disease.

[NIACINAMIDE FOR STOPPING SMOKING] After middle age, nicotine isn't likely to become addictive, and in small amounts it has nerve protective effects. Some of those effects probably overlap with the nerve protective effects of niacinamide. I haven't experimented with nicotine or tobacco, but I think transdermal application is preferable to smoking; carbon monoxide and other serious toxins are produced by burning the tobacco.

 

[Makrosky]

I think the healthier you are the less need for tobacco. When I'm at best, tobacco tastes and smells like ***t.

 

[goodandevil]

I heard that cancer and smoking tobacco are related because phosphate occurs mixed with uranium oxides in mineral deposits.

 

[Emstar1892]

Hmm. Thanks for your replies.

I know it's unbelievably irresponsible, but I miss it, in a weird way. I've gone four years without cigarettes and been absolutely fine, but this past year has been so stressful for me (to the point of literally nearly dying...) that I wonder if something as simple as a cigarette might actually make me feel better. Since I can't exercise to feel good, and I don't drink or do anything else, there's just a part of me that craves it.

My worry (besides the obvious long-term effects of course) is just that if I did smoke, I might actually increase all my stress hormones - that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. So if anyone knows whether cigarettes are a stressor for the brain/endocrine system, I'd love to know!

Also there's that old rumour that smoking revs the metabolism (not that I want to lose weight or anything, it's just interesting)

 

[Blossom]

With your low heart rate I'd be very cautious of anything that could tax your heart or interfere with oxygenation.

 

[Emstar1892]

Thanks, I'm actually just asking because I'm interested though, not because I'm planning on doing it! Since half the world seems to smoke, I wonder if it's a stress-inducer or reliever, that's all :)

 

[Makrosky]

I wonder if it's a stress-inducer or reliever, that's all :)

I think this depends on how quick/often you drag from the cigarrette. Quick smoking = stress, slow smoking = anti-stress.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks, I'm actually just asking because I'm interested though, not because I'm planning on doing it! Since half the world seems to smoke, I wonder if it's a stress-inducer or reliever, that's all :)

I hope I didn't sound authoritarian as I'm not trying to steer you just relay my concern.
Nicotine is dopaminergic so it definitely can make people feel good. I'm not completely anti-nicotine as I've used it myself for decades but I do think it has a dark side and that it can be both a stress inducer and reliever depending on the situation and dose. The soot and carbon monoxide in the actual smoke itself can be stressful for people already experiencing health struggles IMHO.

 

[Emstar1892]

I hope I didn't sound authoritarian as I'm not trying to steer you just relay my concern.
Nicotine is dopaminergic so it definitely can make people feel good. I'm not completely anti-nicotine as I've used it myself for decades but I do think it has a dark side and that it can be both a stress inducer and reliever depending on the situation and dose. The soot and carbon monoxide in the actual smoke itself can be stressful for people already experiencing health struggles IMHO.

Hehe no not at all! I just realized how much my posts looked like I was looking for an excuse I suppose, whereas I just wanted to satisfy some odd curiosity :P

It's funny because I remember being younger and doing A-levels, and smoking literally every half hour to "get rid" of the stress, and it seemed to work for me. But then I had a boyfriend who would smoke and immediately tremble and feel very anxious. I also wonder why smoking keeps so many people's weight down - as in, what part of the body it actually stimulates in order to increase metabolism. I don't think it could be heart rate because mine never changed when I smoked, but there must be some mechanism. Lots of people say it's just because smoking is an appetite surpressant, but I ate like a horse all the way through my smoking years and was probably the lightest weight I've ever been.

Haha actually I've just remembered this - when I was at college we all returned from summer holidays and my latin tutor was about a stone heavier. Being horrible teenage girls we asked him why he looked so different and he just went I QUIT SMOKING. NOW I'M FAT. LEAVE ME ALONE.

 

[Blossom]

It does seem to effect some people's weight. I learned in smoking cessation instructor classes that nicotine on average 'burns' 200 calories per day, increases the workload on the heart and lungs equivalent to gaining 100 pounds and some people do eat more when they quit trying to satisfy an oral fixation. I'm not sure how much I believe all of that and I think it's over generalized but there could be a sliver of truth to some of it. It was taught from a medical/pharma perspective so I think taking it with a grain of salt is warranted.
After about the age of 35 I would lose weight whenever I quit smoking and I thought it was probably due to increased stress in my case. The last time I quit it had no effect on my weight whatsoever and I think that is because I was at a healthy weight for me and energy/nutrient balanced with a decent metabolism. It's an interesting topic @Emstar1892 !

 

[michael94]

I think it's safe to say they breed commercial cigarettes for addictiveness/profit. I wouldn't trust both the tobacco itself nor any of the additives they put in.

I do believe more "organic" tobacco is a bit different. There's still the carcinogens of smoke inhalation but I think they're overblown and in people with good metabolic functioning cancer doesn't really happen.
This was posted in another thread on tobacco but you may have missed it. Friend or foe? Carbon monoxide and the mitochondria


Nicotine itself is less controversially beneficial and the evidence for it being addictive seems to mostly come from commercial tobacco products of a pack or more a day. The users also might be self medicating.

With regard to how nicotine affects bodyweight, leptin and uncoupling in certain fat tissues seem to be 2 major factors. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/ajpendo/280/6/E867.full.pdf
Proper leptin expression works in the same way that dopamine agonists do, in fact I believe dopamine agonists directly affect leptin but don't quote me on that. Leptin is basically your anti-starvation hormone. During dieting or stress it goes down and likewise metabolism. Fat people produce a lot of leptin but have very low sensitivity which explains a lot of the confusion with regards to leptin as a "bad" thing. This study demonstrates the correlation of caloric intake with leptin levels, the effects are very quick in either direction. Twenty-four-hour leptin levels respond to cumulative short-term energy imbalance and predict subsequent intake. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[marikay]

In a radio interview, Ray mentioned that it's the carbon monoxide in cigarettes that is the most deadly. A quick search for carbon monoxide poisoning will likely remedy any real temptation to smoke again. Nicotine can be found as a supplement somewhere on the web. And other b vitamins (b1, b6) that are discussed on this forum are also great for sharpening the mind and giving a nice buzz.

 

[michael94]

In a radio interview, Ray mentioned that it's the carbon monoxide in cigarettes that is the most deadly. A quick search for carbon monoxide poisoning will likely remedy any real temptation to smoke again. .

I don't think it's so open an shut. Dying from carbon monoxide poisoning involves vastly different concentrations of CO than you get from smoking a cigarette.

It was not until the late 1960's that endogenous production of CO was discovered as a result of the catabolism of heme (Sjostrand, 1949; Coburn et al., 1963), suggesting a physiological role for this simple, diatomic gas. Decades after these findings were reported, investigators noted that levels of CO were significantly elevated in the exhaled breath of hospitalized patients (Vos et al., 2009; Cheng et al., 2010; James et al., 2010; Zhang et al., 2010). The illnesses were wide-ranging, yet it was clear that CO levels would decrease as the pathology resolved

One of the primary sites in the body where CO is believed to be most toxic is the brain and this is based on weak studies with lack of rigor and proper controls. CO is clearly neuroprotective in various neuronal injury models (Vieira et al., 2008; Zeynalov and Dore, 2009; Wang et al., 2011; Yabluchanskiy et al.,2012; Schallner et al., 2013) and extensive safety trials in humans have been completed without a single sign of toxicity at carboxyhemoglobin levels of 12–15% (Mayr et al., 2005; Bathoorn et al., 2007). Most importantly, no negative influence on cognitive function was detected.

 

[Matt1951]

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Health Benefits of Tobacco: A Smoker's Paradox
If smoking cigarettes, limit to ten a day. If smoking cigars, limit to one or two a day, and do not inhale smoke to the lungs. Absorb the nicotine through the mouth.

You could also try nicotine patches. Yes, nicotine probably is beneficial. Smoke a pack a day along with drinking alcohol, and one is asking for big trouble.

 

[Matt1951]

I heard that cancer and smoking tobacco are related because phosphate occurs mixed with uranium oxides in mineral deposits.

That is a primary theory. US uses phosphate fertilizers, people then die of radiation poisoning/lung cancer from smoking. In Japan, they have a far lower rate of lung cancer, and they smoke more than in the US. I also believe Pakistan claims the same thing - conclusion - buy Japanese or Pakistani cigarettes over American cigarettes, if possible.

 

[tara]

Also polonium 210.
Radioactive polonium in cigarette smoke

 

[Greg says]

In the 1950s only men smoked so the tobacco corporations hired public relations specialist Edward Bernays (Sigmund Freud's nephew) to expand the market and encourage women to smoke, by connecting the idea that cigarettes challenged male power. The next Easter Day parade in New York Bernays got some rich, young, dèbutons to start smoking as part of the parade. Bernays then told the press that it was a group of suffragettes who were protesting by lighting up and smoking what they called 'torches of freedom'. If you agreed with equality and freedom then you had to get behind the idea. The idea still persists today that smoking makes women more powerful and independent. This started the culture of linking products to people's desires and feelings. Bernays is to blame for our current culture of buying stuff we don't need.

'Culture, it seems, starts to make us stupid long before the metabolic problems appear.'
'Our brain grows into our culture, and the culture lives in our nervous system.'
–Ray Peat

 

[ecstatichamster]

I smoke a cigar or two without inhaling. I think it's fine.