Question About LSD

[miko]

There is one thing I don't understand about LSD. From what I have Read from Ray Peat LSD is named antiserotonergic substance. But in other places like Wikipedia or medical articles on pubmed there is info that LSD psychodelic properties comes mainly from 5-HT2 agonism, not antagonizm. 5-HT2a antagonist blocked psychodelic effects from LSD. I know 5-HT2a agonism releases dopamine so thats propably why it's halucinogenic. So it's more serotonin agonist, not antagonist like cyproheptadine.

 

[Curt :-)]

I've pondered this too, as, like you say, mainstream science says it increases serotonin.

Ive done acid many times, and the result is always an anti-serotonin effect; high motivation, brimming positivity, strong interest in music, introspection and nature, empathy for others, and so on.

 

[miko]

All this effects can also be from dopamine. Agonism of 5-HT2a receptors result in dopamine release. LSD don't increase serotonin (substances that overall increase serotonin results in anhedonia, low motivation etc. becouse agonism of 5-HT2c receptors result in decreasing dopamine). Only antagonism of 5-HT2c receptors result in dopamine release - all other 5-HT receptors agonism result in dopamine release. I know serotonin is not "good", becouse it's increase HPA axis activity, serotonin is vasoconstrictor and etc.

 

[Curt :-)]

Yeah, I believe serotonin is "generally a dopamine antagonist", hence the effect. Though in general, I've found that lowering serotonin is much more effective than trying to increase dopamine directly.

 

[miko]

There aren't good ways to "increase" dopamine. Maybe new antidepressants working on glutamate system would be more effective.

 

[Curt :-)]

Not necessarily. Some people have good results with tyrosine/phenylalanine, taurine or B6, which are generally considered to be dopamine agonists, not serotonin antagonists.

 

[Ben]

5-HT2a agonism is responsible for the psychedelic effects. This is a receptor also involved in synesthesia, even the type which doesn't stem from psychedelics. The behavioral effects stem from other serotonin receptors, the ones that are antagonized.

Also, do not treat acid like a typical anti-serotonin substance. Its benefits come not from gradual improvement to health like thyroid, but from single experiences. Studies show one or two trips are sufficient to have effects on wellbeing and addiction that last for many months.

I have also found that few strong dose trips are better than many small dose trips. But make sure to have the appropriate setting. You will be blown away, and that is the therapeutic effect. You are at the mercy of the emotions you repress on a daily basis. A lower dose may leave room for resistance, thus higher doses are better. A study showed that a lower dose increased anxiety to dying patients, while the higher dose reduced it.

Make sure to have a sitter who is not only sober, but also trustworthy, and do not carry any acid with you if you ever go to a park or any other public place. Do not attempt to resist bad emotions if you can feel them coming on. Just let everything flow out of you, that is the therapeutic part.

 

[Sheik]

I'm afraid to try acid. I don't want to have a bad trip. Haha.

But that's very good to know, Ben, because I was thinking I would start at like 25 mcg if I ever tried it.

 

[Curt :-)]

I know "recommending" people take drugs is kind of ridiculous, but I wouldn't be scared of acid; it's very safe.
In the unlikely event that a good set and setting still produces a bad trip, it won't send you bonkers. Yes, you'll certainly be rather hesitant to try it again lol, but it's not going to turn you into Syd Barrett.

Dying without ever doing acid is utterly absurd.

PS. 25mcg is very little. I'd suggest 100mcg or so at first.

 

[Sheik]

I know "recommending" people take drugs is kind of ridiculous, but I wouldn't be scared of acid; it's very safe.
In the unlikely event that a good set and setting still produces a bad trip, it won't send you bonkers. Yes, you'll certainly be rather hesitant to try it again lol, but it's not going to turn you into Syd Barrett.

Dying without ever doing acid is utterly absurd.

PS. 25mcg is very little. I'd suggest 100mcg or so at first.

I think why I'm afraid is because weed has given me panic attacks. I'm afraid acid will do the same thing, maybe even be worse because of how earth-shattering it apparently is.

Some of the worst experiences of my life (probably THE worst) were panic attacks from smoking weed. Reality came flooding in and I wasn't ready for it (then again, are we ever?). The temptation to know was too great and I couldn't stop myself from exploring reality deeper and deeper. It was terrifying yet beautiful and amazing.

That said, I'm much wiser now. It's important to me to live a normal, balanced life. This is why I suspect I'm past the phase where I could have become a Syd Barrett, if there was any risk in the first place.

Plus, acid is a different drug and I really don't know what the effects will be for me. I've heard of people getting panic attacks from weed, but doing fine on acid.

Check out this great video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTjRi0x2Cyg

 

[kiran]

Its likely that smoke contributes to the panic attacks from smoking weed. Eating it might help.

 

[FiveAsh]

I think why I'm afraid is because weed has given me panic attacks. I'm afraid acid will do the same thing, maybe even be worse because of how earth-shattering it apparently is.

Some of the worst experiences of my life (probably THE worst) were panic attacks from smoking weed. Reality came flooding in and I wasn't ready for it (then again, are we ever?). The temptation to know was too great and I couldn't stop myself from exploring reality deeper and deeper. It was terrifying yet beautiful and amazing.

That said, I'm much wiser now. It's important to me to live a normal, balanced life. This is why I suspect I'm past the phase where I could have become a Syd Barrett, if there was any risk in the first place.

Plus, acid is a different drug and I really don't know what the effects will be for me. I've heard of people getting panic attacks from weed, but doing fine on acid.

Check out this great video:

Most people who were close to Syd Barret in his life say that his psychosis was motivated by cannabis smoking and not LSD. i strongly reccomend consuming a large amount of sugar with LSD (around 300 grams at least depending on th intensity of the trip) to compensate for the stimulation of brain metabolism and restraining the hypoglycemic stress response that is probably associated with a "bad trip"

 

[Pet Peeve]

There are lots of problems you can get from psychedelics, not only psychosis. I think the psychosis you can get from psychedelics come from PTSD from bad trips. People think bad trips are that you become scared of a hallucination or you get worried someone like parents or cops will discover you, but in reality it's more like something goes horribly wrong in your brain and you don't know if you will ever come down again. One guy I talked to said that during a bad trip he was standing a couple of meters from himself watching himself, he said it gave him a fear he would carry around with him for the rest of his life. Other common problems are HPPD which is like chronic constant visual disturbances a lot of people get for life, your vision basically becomes like a badly tuned tv. Or depersonalization which is like being a spectator to everything that happens with no feeling of connection to yourself. I think most of these problems can be avoided by microdosing.

 

[michael94]

Lsd: Antagonizes Serotonin And Glutamate Excitation

 

[michael94]

Bad trips are likely from a combination of oxidative stress + parasite die-off ( it increases metabolism DRAMATICALLY ) and/or some major spiritual/aura imbalance. I think a lot of people do well on psychedelics at first but fall into a "false enlightenment" trap and make themselves susceptible to negative energies.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I think a lot of people do well on psychedelics at first but fall into a "false enlightenment" trap and make themselves susceptible to negative energies.

I did shrooms a few times and didn't really have any major problems. Then on my last trip i was like: "holy cow, the enlightenment i have been striving for for years is actually really happening!!". Boy did i come crashing down!
Suddenly the bliss, the tears and the thousand golden torches inside of me turned into fear and anxiety. Full force. I already thought that my skull would burst from the "enlightenment"-phase cause it was just too much.

Thank God i can laugh about it now.

My friend who also had a difficult experience with psychedelics said that it took about 1 year and 3 months to start to really be over it. I feel it took about the same for me. Funny.

 

[theonlyway]

I know "recommending" people take drugs is kind of ridiculous, but I wouldn't be scared of acid; it's very safe.
In the unlikely event that a good set and setting still produces a bad trip, it won't send you bonkers. Yes, you'll certainly be rather hesitant to try it again lol, but it's not going to turn you into Syd Barrett.

Dying without ever doing acid is utterly absurd.

PS. 25mcg is very little. I'd suggest 100mcg or so at first.

I think this is poor advice. 25ug may seem little but you still get effects. 100ug and you are going to have an intense peaking period. Hell, I recently took 30ug and it was still intense. I think 20-40ug is an ideal choice for those that are nervous.

 

[ATP]

There are lots of problems you can get from psychedelics, not only psychosis. I think the psychosis you can get from psychedelics come from PTSD from bad trips. People think bad trips are that you become scared of a hallucination or you get worried someone like parents or cops will discover you, but in reality it's more like something goes horribly wrong in your brain and you don't know if you will ever come down again. One guy I talked to said that during a bad trip he was standing a couple of meters from himself watching himself, he said it gave him a fear he would carry around with him for the rest of his life. Other common problems are HPPD which is like chronic constant visual disturbances a lot of people get for life, your vision basically becomes like a badly tuned tv. Or depersonalization which is like being a spectator to everything that happens with no feeling of connection to yourself. I think most of these problems can be avoided by microdosing.

Ever since I took LSD I've been suffering from severe OCD, delusions and hallucinations. Prior to that I was mentally stable.
My trip was completely positive it was only the next day when I came down that my life became a living hell.
No one I've ever talked to has a clue how LSD induced phycosis can be reversed.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Ever since I took LSD I've been suffering from severe OCD, delusions and hallucinations. Prior to that I was mentally stable.
My trip was completely positive it was only the next day when I came down that my life became a living hell.
No one I've ever talked to has a clue how LSD induced phycosis can be reversed.

I'm going to be blunt here. LSD can trigger latent schitzophrenia in some people. A psychosis is similar but would resolve itself in a couple of years as long as you don't do more drugs and live healthily. How long ago did you trip? Have you tried peating with emphasis on lowering serotonin?

Cyproheptadine should help.

Btw, a movie was made a few years ago in Germany called The White Sound. It's about a guy who does shrooms and becomes schitzophrenic after. Scary and interesting.

 

[ATP]

I'm going to be blunt here. LSD can trigger latent schitzophrenia in some people. A psychosis is similar but would resolve itself in a couple of years as long as you don't do more drugs and live healthily. How long ago did you trip? Have you tried peating with emphasis on lowering serotonin?

Cyproheptadine should help.

Btw, a movie was made a few years ago in Germany called The White Sound. It's about a guy who does shrooms and becomes schitzophrenic after. Scary and interesting.

I have been to multiple reputable psychiatrists and all of them agree I don't have schizophrenia and I personally believe I don't either.
It was when I was 19 and I am now 26. I have tried almost everything including cyproheptadine, all with no positive changes.