InChristAlone
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I personally do not use gelatin. Just having animal products in my diet has added up to enough glycine. But I guess I can add it to the list of foods people regularly eat that are contaminated with lead.
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Quali-C Vitamin C Has Virtually No Heavy Metals
- Thread starter ecstatichamster
- Start date
Amazoniac
Member
Not only stress is contagious, words as well. I often borrow mines from previous posts, it's hilarious to track it. But the sad part for me is that it's not a synchrony with the other, it's a crutch. I won't let go of one until I find the other, and in this case 'until' was borrowed from the reply to Kartoffel.
Amazoniac
Member
- Recommending Calcium to Reduce Lead Toxicity in Children: A Critical Review
"Without stronger supporting evidence, statements that diet can ameliorate the deleterious effects of environmental lead could provide a false sense of efficacy and divert efforts from lead abatement and from behavioral modifications that might have more impact."
"Studies of calcium homeostasis in the rat, the most common experimental model for lead absorption, present particular problems for extrapolation to humans because the rat’s mechanisms of calcium absorption may differ from those in humans. Rat milk has very high calcium and phosphorus contents relative to human or bovine milk and suckling rats absorb nearly all the calcium available through vitamin D-independent paracellular and endocytic mechanisms.[20] Endocytic calcium absorption in rat pups declines with age and ceases at weaning. Active calcium transport develops as the endocytic mechanism declines. The paracellular mechanism in rats appears to be unchanged throughout the lifespan. By contrast, humans absorb calcium through both active and paracellular mechanisms but it is not clear whether the endocytic mechanism operates in human infants. In addition, human infants but not rat pups have active vitamin D-dependent calcium absorption from birth.[21] Further, it has been suggested that the primary form of calcium absorption is paracellular and not vitamin D-dependent in the rat, whereas in humans vitamin D-dependent absorption predominates.[22,23] These differences in calcium absorption and homeostasis between rats and humans emphasize the need for caution in extrapolation from animals to humans."
"There is little doubt that concentrated calcium solutions inhibit lead absorption when the calcium and lead are administered in simultaneous boluses. These experiments do not, however, approximate children’s usual exposure to lead nor do they address the question of whether calcium deficiency or repletion affect lead absorption."
"Animals maintained on extremely low-calcium diets have higher intestinal lead absorption in response to either single doses of lead or chronic exposure to lead than controls on diets of normal calcium content.[25,29,31-34] Animals on low-calcium diets also have generally higher whole-body or organ contents of lead in response to chronic lead exposure,[29,34-36] although the various experimental species are not equally sensitive to either variation in calcium status or to variation in lead exposure,[37,38] nor are all organs in a given protocol equally affected.[34-37]"
"High-calcium diets, those containing at least twice the normal nutritional requirement and in some cases as much as five times normal,[35] have yielded less consistent results. Some investigators demonstrated reduced lead absorption or lower tissue lead content with high-calcium diets,[34,40-43] although others did not.[25,31,44] The protective effect of high calcium, when observed, varied from organ to organ.[34,35,43] The inconsistency of the protective effects observed in high-calcium feeding experiments may be attributed at least in part to a calcium dose-dependent protective effect or to a threshold that must be exceeded before calcium is protective.[7] It may also be related to varied doses and administrative regimens of the lead exposures."
"In animals, chow diets are protective relative to semipurified or milk diets, possibly owing to other dietary constituents that may include fiber and phytate,[43,45] the physical form of the diet, or transit time through the gut.[13,46-48] Studies comparing chow diets with cow’s milk or infant formula in both rats and monkeys show that milk or formula diets actually enhance lead absorption, particularly among weaned animals switched from chow to milk or formula.[49,50]"
"The studies that examined the effects of milk in human adults found lead absorption from milk was significantly higher than lead absorption from solutions with the same concentrations of calcium and phosphorus in water.[25,53] It is possible that milk, which contains lactose and supplemental vitamin D, might enhance the absorption of both calcium and lead.[54] Removing all minerals from semipurified test meals increased lead absorption in human subjects,[55] but in most of the human feeding studies it was difficult to separate the putative effects of calcium from those of other components of the food or the presence of food per se.[26,27,53,55,56]"
"The presence of food reduces the absorption of a concurrent dose of lead in adult human subjects,[26,53,55,56] but the protective effect of food is significantly attenuated after as little as 10 minutes [26,53] which is consistent with animal and human experimental studies showing that protective effects of calcium in solution are of short duration.[24,29] Again, this suggests that lead and calcium may compete for absorption sites when they are present together in the gut."
"A consistent feature of all the animal studies, regardless of protocol, is substantial individual variation in response to calcium and lead exposure, even among rats of the same strain. There is also great individual variation both within and between studies of healthy adult human subjects under controlled condition.[30,55,57,58] Chamberlain et al.[59] noted that some of their six adult male participants were consistently high lead absorbers under all experimental conditions and some were consistently low absorbers."
"Serum calcium concentration is not satisfactory [marker for calcium intake] because it is subject to very tight homeostatic regulation.[13] In the absence of lead exposure, serum vitamin D, which increases in calcium deficiency [¿], could be a useful marker, but lead exposure reduces serum vitamin D concentration,[8] leading to confounding in studies of lead exposure."
"Many investigators attribute the increase in toddlers’ blood lead concentrations to increases in mouthing objects, hand-to-mouth activity, and crawling, which tend to occur shortly before the peak blood lead concentration is observed.[65,66,69-71] Isotopic studies of lead sources in children suggest that the primary source is floors, conveyed to the mouth by the hands.[72] Environmental lead exposure scores, housing characteristics and maintenance, and direct measures of lead in household dust are strongly correlated with children’s blood lead concentration.[65,66,69,71]"
"As with the adult experimental studies, [a childish] study indicates that there may be a direct interaction between lead and calcium consumed at the same time, suggesting possible competition for absorptive sites in the gut."
"[..]no single dietary manipulation is likely to have a very profound effect on lead status."
I think that the ideas from one of the previous post are still nertipent since hard mineral water and eggshells are a complex that might help to prevent lead adsorption, it's better than not having anything getting in its way. As they commented, the focus should be on reducing its intake rather than on decreasing such odds."Studies of calcium homeostasis in the rat, the most common experimental model for lead absorption, present particular problems for extrapolation to humans because the rat’s mechanisms of calcium absorption may differ from those in humans. Rat milk has very high calcium and phosphorus contents relative to human or bovine milk and suckling rats absorb nearly all the calcium available through vitamin D-independent paracellular and endocytic mechanisms.[20] Endocytic calcium absorption in rat pups declines with age and ceases at weaning. Active calcium transport develops as the endocytic mechanism declines. The paracellular mechanism in rats appears to be unchanged throughout the lifespan. By contrast, humans absorb calcium through both active and paracellular mechanisms but it is not clear whether the endocytic mechanism operates in human infants. In addition, human infants but not rat pups have active vitamin D-dependent calcium absorption from birth.[21] Further, it has been suggested that the primary form of calcium absorption is paracellular and not vitamin D-dependent in the rat, whereas in humans vitamin D-dependent absorption predominates.[22,23] These differences in calcium absorption and homeostasis between rats and humans emphasize the need for caution in extrapolation from animals to humans."
"There is little doubt that concentrated calcium solutions inhibit lead absorption when the calcium and lead are administered in simultaneous boluses. These experiments do not, however, approximate children’s usual exposure to lead nor do they address the question of whether calcium deficiency or repletion affect lead absorption."
"Animals maintained on extremely low-calcium diets have higher intestinal lead absorption in response to either single doses of lead or chronic exposure to lead than controls on diets of normal calcium content.[25,29,31-34] Animals on low-calcium diets also have generally higher whole-body or organ contents of lead in response to chronic lead exposure,[29,34-36] although the various experimental species are not equally sensitive to either variation in calcium status or to variation in lead exposure,[37,38] nor are all organs in a given protocol equally affected.[34-37]"
"High-calcium diets, those containing at least twice the normal nutritional requirement and in some cases as much as five times normal,[35] have yielded less consistent results. Some investigators demonstrated reduced lead absorption or lower tissue lead content with high-calcium diets,[34,40-43] although others did not.[25,31,44] The protective effect of high calcium, when observed, varied from organ to organ.[34,35,43] The inconsistency of the protective effects observed in high-calcium feeding experiments may be attributed at least in part to a calcium dose-dependent protective effect or to a threshold that must be exceeded before calcium is protective.[7] It may also be related to varied doses and administrative regimens of the lead exposures."
"In animals, chow diets are protective relative to semipurified or milk diets, possibly owing to other dietary constituents that may include fiber and phytate,[43,45] the physical form of the diet, or transit time through the gut.[13,46-48] Studies comparing chow diets with cow’s milk or infant formula in both rats and monkeys show that milk or formula diets actually enhance lead absorption, particularly among weaned animals switched from chow to milk or formula.[49,50]"
"The studies that examined the effects of milk in human adults found lead absorption from milk was significantly higher than lead absorption from solutions with the same concentrations of calcium and phosphorus in water.[25,53] It is possible that milk, which contains lactose and supplemental vitamin D, might enhance the absorption of both calcium and lead.[54] Removing all minerals from semipurified test meals increased lead absorption in human subjects,[55] but in most of the human feeding studies it was difficult to separate the putative effects of calcium from those of other components of the food or the presence of food per se.[26,27,53,55,56]"
"The presence of food reduces the absorption of a concurrent dose of lead in adult human subjects,[26,53,55,56] but the protective effect of food is significantly attenuated after as little as 10 minutes [26,53] which is consistent with animal and human experimental studies showing that protective effects of calcium in solution are of short duration.[24,29] Again, this suggests that lead and calcium may compete for absorption sites when they are present together in the gut."
"A consistent feature of all the animal studies, regardless of protocol, is substantial individual variation in response to calcium and lead exposure, even among rats of the same strain. There is also great individual variation both within and between studies of healthy adult human subjects under controlled condition.[30,55,57,58] Chamberlain et al.[59] noted that some of their six adult male participants were consistently high lead absorbers under all experimental conditions and some were consistently low absorbers."
"Serum calcium concentration is not satisfactory [marker for calcium intake] because it is subject to very tight homeostatic regulation.[13] In the absence of lead exposure, serum vitamin D, which increases in calcium deficiency [¿], could be a useful marker, but lead exposure reduces serum vitamin D concentration,[8] leading to confounding in studies of lead exposure."
"Many investigators attribute the increase in toddlers’ blood lead concentrations to increases in mouthing objects, hand-to-mouth activity, and crawling, which tend to occur shortly before the peak blood lead concentration is observed.[65,66,69-71] Isotopic studies of lead sources in children suggest that the primary source is floors, conveyed to the mouth by the hands.[72] Environmental lead exposure scores, housing characteristics and maintenance, and direct measures of lead in household dust are strongly correlated with children’s blood lead concentration.[65,66,69,71]"
"As with the adult experimental studies, [a childish] study indicates that there may be a direct interaction between lead and calcium consumed at the same time, suggesting possible competition for absorptive sites in the gut."
"[..]no single dietary manipulation is likely to have a very profound effect on lead status."
Last edited:
Good idea. I tried eggshells with 20% acetic acid today. To get 1600 mg of calcium, I put 4 grams eggshell powder in a glass with about 24 grams of the 20% acetic acid solution. Then I let it sit overnight, as the reaction is slow because of the low surface area of the eggshell powder. It's ready for use the following morning.
I suppose it could work with vinegar of 5% acetic acid. It's more natural as well, since the 20% acetic acid solution I made is from diluting glacial acetic acid (100%).
The taste is tolerable, but I mix it in orange juice. The orange juice tastes slightly worse, but it still tastes good.
Magnesium bicarbonate tastes better than magnesium acetate, but it's not as easy to make.
OP
ecstatichamster
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- Nov 21, 2015
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- 10,504
Agree. I think having collagen is healthy. If you eat stock that you make yourself, you're going to get lead also. Can't get away from it. It's how your body deals with it that counts.
Dr. Peat has pointed out that mercury for instance isn't necessarily all bad, although he doesn't outright say it. Babies born with higher mercury levels had higher intelligence, he has said. It isn't so cut and dried.
Also, vitamin C, coffee and orange juice and as you say good calcium, magnesium etc. help the body get rid of heavy metals.
I saw all the excellent quotes from studies about calcium levels etc. I think we have to use common sense in this stuff and help our bodies deal with heavy metals to the best of our ability. I think Great Lakes Collagen is a reasonable food to include in our diet.
Amazoniac
Member
But the problem with these industrial products is that the protective minerals are removed, so there's not much opposition for the adsorption of contaminants. Some people use vit C away from meals for example and in massive amounts.
- The health effects of low level exposure to lead
"About 10% of the lead ingested by adults is absorbed from the gut (15). For children the fraction absorbed is considerably higher, perhaps as great as 40% (16). Most lead in the blood is found within the erythrocytes (17). Plasma levels are fairly stable at approximately 3 mcg/dl ( 18). Lead is taken up by most soft tissues, including the brain. The largest storage site is in bone. Rabinowitz and colleagues, using nonradioactive isotopes, have shown that lead is held in three storage pools: (a) a fast pool, primarily blood, with a half-life of about 27 days; (b) a slightly slower pool, mainly soft tissue with a half-life of 30 days; and (c) a long-term storage pool, primarily bone, with a half-life of 10,000 days (19)."
I would still favor companies that have the decency of sharing the analysis of their product over those that refuse to do so.
Milk should be very protective if it's lower in fat and doesn't contain added vit D.
On varied forms:
- Absorption of different lead compounds
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If Great Lakes gelatin contains that much lead, it's not a viable lifestyle to be loading up on it. There are other sources of gelatin. These are from animal sources that you can buy from a wet market. The less civilized the city, the more access. You can avoid bone marrow, as plenty of lead goes in there. You can get skin, as long as you can keep away from the fat attached to the skin, as fat is a repository for lead. You can get tendons, which being a connective tissue, is rich in collagen. Chicken feet is also rich in collagen. When you get to know the meat vendor, and you become a regular customer, you'll be able to get a regular supply of gelatin-rich parts.
Of course, you'll have to turn that into a tasty dish to be able to enjoy taking in large quantities of gelatin. This is an option to consider. I know this isn't possible in places that are too metropolitan. And there are many people who can't cook. At which point their only source of gelatin would be Great Lakes and its competitor brands. The convenience of taking it, though, comes with the risk of lead toxicity. Since I came off mercury and lead toxicity, and appreciate being free from heavy metals, I would think twice before taking in foods that are high in heavy metals.
I used to like taking some Chinese herbal products before. That was when the rest of the world had not caught up with these things. Now, I don't trust these herbal products anymore. The product has to be debased as there's not enough product to sell if the high quality standards are maintained. The same thing can be said for Great Lakes gelatin. It has outgrown its good for the few. Now, it's bad to serve the many people wanting to buy its products. It has to water down its standards to serve the larger market. It's the equivalent of Hollywood making Michael Bay blockbusters mainly to serve the large Chinese cinema market.
OP
ecstatichamster
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Heavy Metals Statement - Customer Health Info - Product Info
Doesn’t show the lead levels you indicated.
Doesn’t show the lead levels you indicated.
Andrew Vajda
Member
Hello all! Good news! I just finally closed a 3 year resupply deal with DSM yesterday after a year of negotiations! :) A huge relief as I had been working day and night the last 8 months to set up my online store and get logistics and permission to sell in countries all over the world! There will be a period of probably a month or two that I will be out of inventory as the production runs take so long to schedule (between DSMs' delivery, my 3rd party testing and then getting a place in the packaging facility's production schedule).
@ecstatichamster, I took your advice and put highest purity, lowest metals on the bullet points of my label. The new version will be out in about 3 months! Thanks for the advice!
By the way, a customer wrote me and said they had just started on my vitamin C and noticed they were getting a large amount of gas. This does happen to some people with intestinal issues and I thought I would post Dr Cathcart's answer to that question for others just in case:
In my interview with Dr Cathcart, he spoke about some people having a lot of gas with large amounts of vitamin C but none with huge doses.
As long as you're not getting soft stools, or gurgling in the gut. You're body is using all the vitamin C, and you can continue to push the doses higher to solve the issue in the gut causing gas. Kind of a detoxifying stage.
If you are getting gurgling or soft stools, you need to reduce the dosage.
Remember he advises dividing your doses evenly throughout the day as the half life is very short (30 minutes in the body, so any one dose is mostly gone 2 hours later).
Here is the link to the video:
Stabilizing The Chronically Ill for better results with Ascorbic Acid
As well as the transcript:
“See, all these easy magnificent results I got up at Incline Village with these otherwise healthy people.
Now, then unfortunately we have this situation wherein more civilized areas, it is the chronically ill people that get interested in orthomolecular medicine and they are a pain as far as ascorbic acid in concerned. I mean, they have ulcers, they have food and chemical sensitivities they have all sorts of ideas about what they are allergic to and not allergic to and you got to fight all these things you see and you have to almost baby them into it and so that is why the part of the skill of all this is that you put them on the anti-yeast program which cleans up the bowel which then may be they become more tolerant to C, sometimes you have to give them 50:50 sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid mixes at first.
Some people have tremendous amounts of gas with ascorbic acid. Now, the average person off the street does not do that, but these chronically ill people sometimes will have tremendous amounts of gas, and so then we have to have them watch the foods that they eat, see because there is no question that ascorbic acid in low doses causes a little gas, moderate doses moderate gas, large amount large amount of gas, huge amount no gas.
It is interesting that it seems to kill the bowel flora that makes the gas and what I mean about 100 g or so, if you have a cold and take these huge doses, you think it would blow your guts out, but it does not you see, but then one interesting thing when you are killing the flora you will worry about Staph enteritis or something or other like that happening afterwards. I have never seen an adverse flora grow back first when a person took massive doses of ascorbate which is an interesting phenomenon.
I think may be the reason for that is that for millions of years of evolution, the animals had ascorbate in their bodies and the bacteria that we grew up with in the evolutionary sense were used to ascorbate and now it is the bacteria and fungus and so forth that grow in sugar in the junk foods that we eat now that are pathologic and they are knocked off by the ascorbate and do not grow back as well as the good bacteria do.”
@ecstatichamster, I took your advice and put highest purity, lowest metals on the bullet points of my label. The new version will be out in about 3 months! Thanks for the advice!
By the way, a customer wrote me and said they had just started on my vitamin C and noticed they were getting a large amount of gas. This does happen to some people with intestinal issues and I thought I would post Dr Cathcart's answer to that question for others just in case:
In my interview with Dr Cathcart, he spoke about some people having a lot of gas with large amounts of vitamin C but none with huge doses.
As long as you're not getting soft stools, or gurgling in the gut. You're body is using all the vitamin C, and you can continue to push the doses higher to solve the issue in the gut causing gas. Kind of a detoxifying stage.
If you are getting gurgling or soft stools, you need to reduce the dosage.
Remember he advises dividing your doses evenly throughout the day as the half life is very short (30 minutes in the body, so any one dose is mostly gone 2 hours later).
Here is the link to the video:
Stabilizing The Chronically Ill for better results with Ascorbic Acid
As well as the transcript:
“See, all these easy magnificent results I got up at Incline Village with these otherwise healthy people.
Now, then unfortunately we have this situation wherein more civilized areas, it is the chronically ill people that get interested in orthomolecular medicine and they are a pain as far as ascorbic acid in concerned. I mean, they have ulcers, they have food and chemical sensitivities they have all sorts of ideas about what they are allergic to and not allergic to and you got to fight all these things you see and you have to almost baby them into it and so that is why the part of the skill of all this is that you put them on the anti-yeast program which cleans up the bowel which then may be they become more tolerant to C, sometimes you have to give them 50:50 sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid mixes at first.
Some people have tremendous amounts of gas with ascorbic acid. Now, the average person off the street does not do that, but these chronically ill people sometimes will have tremendous amounts of gas, and so then we have to have them watch the foods that they eat, see because there is no question that ascorbic acid in low doses causes a little gas, moderate doses moderate gas, large amount large amount of gas, huge amount no gas.
It is interesting that it seems to kill the bowel flora that makes the gas and what I mean about 100 g or so, if you have a cold and take these huge doses, you think it would blow your guts out, but it does not you see, but then one interesting thing when you are killing the flora you will worry about Staph enteritis or something or other like that happening afterwards. I have never seen an adverse flora grow back first when a person took massive doses of ascorbate which is an interesting phenomenon.
I think may be the reason for that is that for millions of years of evolution, the animals had ascorbate in their bodies and the bacteria that we grew up with in the evolutionary sense were used to ascorbate and now it is the bacteria and fungus and so forth that grow in sugar in the junk foods that we eat now that are pathologic and they are knocked off by the ascorbate and do not grow back as well as the good bacteria do.”
OP
ecstatichamster
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So massive doses can help sterilize the gut?
Andrew Vajda
Member
Thanks @yerrag! Much appreciated! :)
Andrew Vajda
Member
Well from what Dr Cathcart said, I wouldn't go so far as to say sterilize, but it would seem he implied bring mostly under control; Reducing the bad flora while not hindering the good. You can read the rest of the transcripts of our interviews here: Dr Robert Cathcart MD – Videos | OMArchives.org
Peater Piper
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Has anyone else experienced very dry throats and nasal membranes from higher doses of ascorbic acid (5+ grams over the course of a day)?
Finally someone is asking Doctor's Best if their product is 100% Quali-C. Will be interesting to find out what Doctor's Best response would be. DB actually responded, asking the questioner to direct the question by email, but the questioner responded that he'd like to get the answer posted by DB on the Q&A, in response to the question. It may end up that Doctor's Best is the real thing, or it may not. We'll soon find out.
https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best...prefix=doctor's+best+ascorbic+,aps,399&sr=8-2
https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best...prefix=doctor's+best+ascorbic+,aps,399&sr=8-2
Any updates on this?
I asked but only some clueless users responded. That is the problem with sellers who don't respond. They prefer to let clueless users respond.
But since then, other sellers have began offering Quali-C, such as Revitalize Wellness, and also Lifegiving Store. So I just buy from elsewhere and don't bother with Dr. Best, as I gave them a chance to answer and the seller opted to ignore my query.
Excellent, thank you.
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