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Quali-C Vitamin C Has Virtually No Heavy Metals

Discussion in 'Vitamins' started by ecstatichamster, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Andrew Vajda

    Andrew Vajda Member

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    Hi Lucas,

    I'm not a science major but have done my best to compile info from the experts. If anyone here finds anything I say or post on my site to be slightly off, I'd be very appreciative of corrections! It's a work in progress...

    I posted this on my FAQ: (My answer followed by Dr Levy's (see myth # 4 below))

    My answer:
    (some parts are likely copied from different sources)
    Flavonoids, cofactors and the “ascorbic acid is an empty shell of vitamin C” argument

    Do you need flavonoids and other “co-factors” and if so, how much of them?

    Is it true that ascorbic acid is some sort of an “empty shell” of vitamin C without them?

    Many people truly believe the “empty shell” argument but they are ill informed.

    Ascorbic acid was isolated by one Nobel prize laureate Albert Szent Gyorgi and Championed by a double (& only) Nobel Laureate Linus Pauling.

    Ascorbic acid is an extremely simple molecule synthesized by all the other mammals except man, other primates, the guinea pig and a fruit bat. The functional mammals all have one more working enzyme than us that allows them to convert simple sugar (glucose) into simple ascorbic acid.

    That enzyme is L-gulono-γ-lactone oxidase (GLO) that is inactivated in our group.

    Ascorbic acid is absolutely vitamin C in it’s entirety. Animals do not synthesize co-factors and bioflavonoids and all those other things people try to justify charging you over 20 to a 100 times the cost of simple ascorbic acid.

    Ascorbic acid is basically made the same way functional mammals make it. Enzymes are added to the sugar extracted from European non GMO corn, four hydrogens leave the sugar molecule and the result is pure ascorbic acid.

    The other factors of course have their benefits but you do not need to megadose co-factors like you would ascorbic acid. Humans mega dose to make up for the inability to manufacture our own vitamin C. We can easily obtain equal amounts of flavonoids and co-factors from our food. We could never eat as much ascorbic acid from food as functional mammals make.

    It comes down to the antioxidant properties. Ascorbic acid donates two electrons. Disease and cancer scavenge electrons from your body whereas antioxidants donate them. The goal is to supply enough so that the scavengers are not taking from your electrons.

    You can read more about the work of Linus Pauling, Albert Szent Gyorgi and others here:

    Dr Robert Cathcart treated the most patients with ascorbic acid. We recommend and personally follow Dr Cathcart’s vitamin C dosage protocol.

    See and compare the chemical structures of Glucose and Ascorbic acid here:

    Glucose on Wikipedia

    Nobel Laureate Walter Norman Haworth discusses Ascorbic Acid

    (Search for Fischer projections on both links)

    Dr Levy's Answer:
    “Myth number four: The “vitamin C complex”
    Excerpt from “The most popular vitamin C myths exposed” by Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD

    “The whole concept of vitamin C existing naturally in a multi-compound complex is a fiction of preposterous proportions. Whether the individuals, mostly on the internet, really believe this to be true or are intentionally promoting a fraud is not clear.

    Certainly, everyone making such ridiculous assertions ultimately ends up promoting some type of a “vitamin C complex” supplement. These individuals even go so far as to say that ascorbic acid is not vitamin C, that ascorbic acid has no impact by itself, and that ascorbic acid alone cannot resolve scurvy, the classical vitamin C deficiency disease.

    These assertions are astoundingly wrong, to say the least.

    Editor’s note: Here is a great example of the lifesaving power of vitamin C. Click here to see how one man was saved from a deadly virus.

    If for some reason you are among the readers who find this fiction compelling and logical (and the typical YouTube presentations are very slick and seemingly “scientific”) I would encourage you to go to PubMed – on your computer – and type in ascorbic acid, ascorbate, or vitamin C into the search box.

    You will immediately see abstracts listed for thousands of articles. None of them, particularly the clinical studies where vitamin C is being used as the primary or only therapy, mentions “vitamin C complex.”

    In other words, all of the truly fabulous things that vitamin C has been scientifically documented to do has been done with ascorbic acid or another form of ascorbate by itself. No other ancillary nutrients, drugs, or compounds were necessary.

    Telling the unpopular truth about vitamin C

    I am not in a position to directly accuse anyone of deliberately inflicting the fraud of vitamin C complex on whoever listens to them, but it strains credulity to imagine that anyone would present themselves as a vitamin C expert and truly be completely clueless as to the existence of the many thousands of articles that would indicate that such a complex does not exist and is not necessary for vitamin C to have its wonderful effects.

    What I can also add about the different forms of vitamin C being marketed as a complex is that they generally have added bioflavonoid antioxidants and sometimes other positive nutrients. Make no doubt about it, the greater the variety of and the quantity of antioxidants that you can take, the better.

    More antioxidants do make whatever vitamin C you take more impactful, but they are not required to have a clear and profoundly positive impact from highly-dosed vitamin C. However, these products usually make quality supplementation more expensive than it needs to be, and the C complex products are also not amenable to the easy taking of large multi-gram amounts of vitamin C, such as with pure ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate powder, as recommended by Dr. Frederick Klenner and Dr. Linus Pauling.

    Rather, these C complex products serve to prevent the public and motivated health seekers from realizing the many incredible health benefits that can be realized by pushing vitamin C dosing well past what could be accomplished by even taking several bottles a week of such C complex preparations.

    A final warning to all health conscious people

    So, as with just about everything else, let the buyer be aware, and educated. Make sure anything you read or hear on the internet not only makes clear sense, but it is also backed up by some clear science and not just being put forth by an articulate person with charm and charisma wanting to make a buck.

    Everyone wants to make a living, but motivated health seekers should not be compromising their health just because they are buying into a fraud that is unfortunately just continuing to grow at this point.

    About the Author: Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD is a board-certified internist and cardiologist. He is also bar-certified for the practice of law. He has written extensively on the importance of eliminating toxins while bolstering antioxidant defenses in the body, with particular focus on vitamin C. His website is PeakEnergy.com. His latest book, The Toxic Tooth: How a root canal could be making you sick, co-authored with Robert Kulacz, DDS, is now available at MedFoxPub.com.”
     
  2. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    It is also true that we need to eat whole foods that contain copper.
     
  3. Lucas

    Lucas Member

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    For copper I eat 150g beef liver once a week, the problem is I want to follow The Root Cause Protocol from Morley Robbins but the recommendation to get 400 to 800 mg of Whole Food Vitamin C is expensive, so I just eat oranges for that and sometimes organic acerola frozen Pulp that had 600 mg of natural vitamin C.
     
  4. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Are you comparing ascorbic acid to a lower priced prostitute? lol
     
  5. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Since no one else is asking, and I'm too lazy to google him, who is Morley Robbins?
     
  6. Lucas

    Lucas Member

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  7. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I think most likely vitamin C in high doses dose deplete copper and ceruloplasmin.
     
  8. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Morley is crazy. He thinks our bodies create whole food C, lol. I wouldn't recommend anything he has to say. Please refer to the people who spent years studying ascorbic acid.

    Vitamin C is needed to regulate copper.
    "Ascorbate appears to play a dual role in copper transport: as
    an antagonist of intestinal transport and as a postabsorption
    stimulator of tissue copper utilization. Ascorbate may also in-
    fluence the intracellular binding of copper to enzymes. The latter
    property may or may not have physiological significance but
    toxicological factors cannot be excluded. Failure to bind to en-
    zymes could leave copper as a free metal and available for cat-
    alyzing Fenton-type reactions associated with free radicals and
    reduced oxygen species (33). All of the effects reported in these
    studies were observed at physiological levels of the vitamin. If
    ascorbate as a cofactor facilitates the removal of copper from
    ceruloplasmin, this would open a new vista of functions for the
    vitamin. More important is the realization that a vitamin C
    deficiency may impair copper metabolism to the extent that
    transport and regulated uptake of copper by cells would be com-
    promised. In the long history of scurvy, little attention has been
    paid to the possibility that a copper deficiency either com-
    pounded or potentiated the symptoms. The studies reported here
    hold open the possibility that scorbutic animals and humans
    could be suffering from a copper deficiency in addition to or as
    part of the symptoms manifested by lack of the vitamin."
    A role for ascorbic acid in copper transport

    " Serum copper largely reflects serum ceruloplasmin, and is not a sensitive indicator of copper nutritional status. Serum ceruloplasmin levels are known to increase by 50% or more under certain conditions of physical stress, such as trauma, inflammation, or disease. Because over 90% of serum copper is carried in ceruloplasmin, elevated serum copper may simply be a marker of the inflammation that accompanies atherosclerosis."
    Copper

    Maybe if you have higher vitamin C you won't need as much ceruloplasmin.

    And you can monitor this for yourselves. Copper deficiency will cause anemia. I have been using high doses for 2 yrs now and my hemoglobin is the best I've ever seen. Hematocrit too. RBC are also perfect.

     
  9. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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  10. Andrew Vajda

    Andrew Vajda Member

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    Hi Luk3, The DSM Sodium ascorbate is actually much more expensive than the ascorbic acid. That's why I was never able to offer it. Strange that they also use the words "With Quali-C" like Doctor's Best does... Perhaps that allows them a legal defense in case it's mixed with Chinese?
    Just had a look at it and saw this review:
    3.0 out of 5 starsQuestion marks
    30 November 2018
    Verified Purchase
    Been using this for a few years for our young daughter but recently the quality seems to have changed. It goes very clumpy easily and starts to smell. Compared to the Nutribiotic one it's a poor second in terms of quality. Our baby has never been ill since taking it so I've no doubt it works but now she's a little older she turns her nose up at it because of the smell and the fact it doesn't dissolve anymore. Really disappointed.
     
  11. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    While I appreciate the artistry, I don't think it is an apt analogy. I recommend better sources of vitamin C than the refined stuff anytime you can have it - and I accept that some refined sources are contaminated. However, I see a divide in the explanation. Maybe the analogy is that Helvetica and Destiny are different girls - and with a deficiency of Helvetica in your heart, Destiny could never completely suffice. Or that the action of compounds surrounding Vitamin C in its respective natural occurrences are different from the action of ascorbic acid in vivo.
     
  12. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    Seems like!
     
  13. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    The point is that if you used a previous version without issues and all of the sudden after some changes in production you started to react badly, our whisperer wasn't being unreasonable in blaming the change in production. He probably tried it from different suppliers to be sure (maybe including the best of what was available), but at the same time started to realize that there were other people around him having similar issues when using it.

    He likely reached a stage where he felt safer letting go of synthetic options and sticking to foods instead. For him to be at ease with his conscious, he had to convince himself then that a typical diet is able to provide enough even when someone is under chronic stress.[Indagation needed]
     
  14. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    But maybe when they changed production they weren't careful about heavy metals. I think it is increasingly a concern and things have gotten much better. Like the Quali-C has he even tried any since then? Just completely wrote it off as unnecessary? I mean I do agree that if you can get a lot of high quality fruit that maybe any supplementation is unnecessary but for my family living in a food desert and the fact that fresh squeezed orange juice is cost prohibitive and I'm more reactive to it than ascorbic acid, I'll take my chances with the synthetic.
     
  15. Andrew Vajda

    Andrew Vajda Member

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    When you consider an orange has 30mg, it then comes to how much you actually believe you need. From the works of Drs Hickey and Roberts challenging the FDA, they claim we need a minimum of 2500mg divided throughout the day. I believe I myself need about double that as per what I tolerate without gurgling in the gut.
    Linus Pauling (only ever double Nobel laureate, Peace and Chemistry and Vitamin C's biggest champion) did the math on what animals make and took 18g/day himself. That's a lot of oranges...
     
  16. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Giselle,
    The comment was because Waynish implied that our curator was just being lazy in adopting such stance. His radical approach might be mistaken, but it's the experience combined with an excuse/justification that makes him more comfortable in avoiding it; similar to your supplemental poison A case because it's not just about impurities, he also seems concerned with an excess of antioxidants. Not that I agree with him, but it's understandable.
     
  17. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    2 ppm or 5 ppb (yerrag, 2019) of lead is 2 mcg or 0.005 mcg in every 1 g of vit C.

    So I don't think 2 ppm of it is a shy amount, having virtually no heavy metals, but at the same time it's far from a serving of Great Lakes gelatin that can provide up to 18 mcg of lead. :thumbsdown:
     
  18. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Where did you find out about the gelatin? That is no small amount of lead.
     
  19. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Vitamin C

    The reason for leaving that comment is because the amounts also count. The content of lead in their product is up to 1.5 ppm, but their serving is 12 grams of gelatin. At least they're honest in sharing the analysis, contrary to companies like Vital Proteins that hide it from the public.

    For someone taking various grams of vit C, it easily adds up.
     
  20. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Do you remember this publication?
    - The influence of nutritional factors on lead absorption

    upload_2019-2-7_15-19-49.png
    ↳ What is this? For some reason it's appearing everytime, it's not an insect or part of the document.​

    If the rat experiment is useful for humanoids and assuming that you're supplementing vit C away from meals (with macronutrients being out of question), it's calcium, followed by phosphate, then by magnesium that are the most inhibitory minerals. A water that's very high in electro but also lytes must be protective; eggshells brewed with vinegar seem a fair option to include along; calcium phosphate as well, but it's going to be difficult to find clean sources. Magnesium sorbet à la yerrag appears to be helpful as well.
     
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