Quali-C Vitamin C Has Virtually No Heavy Metals

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks @ecstatichamster, and @yerrag, I will give it some thought about how to get that info out more. Maybe I should post the COA on my website outright and not worry about other companies copying it? I guess People will then just have to decide for themselves which companies COA's they can trust after actually trying the products...

I would revamp the amazon description.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Just wanted to say that I’ve been taking it for almost a year and feel great on it

Thanks @oldfriend! Always a pleasure to hear someone felt the benefits! Let's hope I manage to secure a new deal with DSM and am able to keep supplying. Been needing melatonin to sleep while waiting on a reply from them. Starting a new business in March to take the pressure off.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

I also only care about heavy metals in the Ascorbic acid. But won't pay double the price of good China made. I have been paying about $17 a pound when it's on sale.

I can understand not wanting to pay more than double and It's definitely better than not having vitamin C. If you're health is great and you're feeling well, I would feel the same. As some of my reviews state, certain people have reactions to the Chinese Vitamin C and either outright can't take it, or don't feel as well on it. When I first tried it the difference was so dramatic for me that I gave away the 5kg of Chinese I had left in my personal supply. I've had to pay huge customs fees while living abroad to get it, and recommend people do the math based on their shipping costs as to whether they wouldn't be better off with liposomal C. (I just started selling from my website directly and am hoping to grow volume to make international shipping cheaper over time. Amazon doesn't ship vitamin C international anymore)

The Chinese government subsidizes production and their powder retails at a several fold markup. I make a small fraction. After 5 years I have supplied 11 metric tons to the public (23.2K pounds) and only taken 30K in salary total.

The Chinese companies also have a history of price fixing to put the competition out of business and then they collude to bring the prices up. That's why 90% of vitamin C on the market now is Chinese (falsely claiming "Made in" where they are only repackaged). There are only 5 big manufacturers left in the US (that all use GMO corn). You can read about the latest supreme court case here: US Supreme Court rules against Chinese vitamin C producers

 

[Makrosky]

I agree, the argument is that all the clinical studies as well as the clinical observations from mega-dosing used exclusively ascorbic acid. You can't get the doses of vitamin C required with the low content in the "natural" sources. Almost all animals produce ascorbic acid in their livers by converting glucose into AA. They don't produce their own flavinoids, nor cofactors that make up the non existent "C-complex"... Do I believe those other things can be good for you? Sure, we'll never know everything about what's in food. We should eat a varied diet and fresh fruits and veggies and I'm sure that will give us what we need of that. Would I mega-dose the other stuff? No. I believe like Stone and Cathcart and Klenner and Pauling that we have to mimic the functional mammal, by taking similar amounts that animals produce.
I'm not sure if I can post links yet but I made a FAQ page on my gmofreevitamins dot com site ( link to FAQ in menu on landing page). I posted Dr Levy's replies to all this and a summary from this and all the other questions I've gotten over the years. (a work in progress, I'm only doing this part time now.)

Here is the transcript from Dr Cathcart addressing the animal/glucose/AA subject from my interview with him.
(BTW, You can see the index of all the questions/topics he discusses at omarchives dot org forward slash video-cathcart )

"You see, these other animals don’t make ascorbate for free.
They make it from glucose, so may be 20% of the food that your dog or cat is eating goes into making ascorbate,
whereas humans don’t waste glucose on making ascorbate, so that in times of famine like in the ice age or so forth,
we humans can out starve most animals.
We don’t like to starve, but when you see the pictures of like the people of Dhaka,
we see how terrible the starvation could be and people just live on, and on and on without much food, whereas wild animals will eat themselves up making ascorbate.

They don’t get colds, like dogs don’t get colds, flu’s or things like that, but we can out starve them.

Anyway, that was the advantage for humans not making ascorbate
and now we are stuck with it. Now that the humans have come out of the trees and live in these large civilizations and can spread diseases around a lot, then it would be nice to have that ascorbate making mechanism back.

Actually when we start talking about naturalness, I want to point that we can fly higher and faster than birds in our machines.
We can also make more ascorbate with our machines than a dog can,
and so we just have to have the knowledge of how to take it
and we can take this ascorbate that is made in our chemical plants
and be actually more resistant to diseases than dogs are."

Good info, thanks!

Just for the record, I personally find non sense (absolutely no offense intended) that part of the Vitamin C theory. Or of any theory that states we should try to imitate any animal metabolism. If we don't endogenously produce AA it is because we don't need that much or because we have other ways to achieve the same benefits without it. Nature is not stupid. Evolution wouldn't have made homo sapiens to lose the endogenous AA production if it would be remotely necessary to achieve good health.

Or to put it in another way, I don't doubt AA supplementation can have big ammounts of beneficial effects, but not because of that explanation.

My opinion.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

I would revamp the amazon description.

Thanks Ecstatic, will do!

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Good info, thanks!

Just for the record, I personally find non sense (absolutely no offense intended) that part of the Vitamin C theory. Or of any theory that states we should try to imitate any animal metabolism. If we don't endogenously produce AA it is because we don't need that much or because we have other ways to achieve the same benefits without it. Nature is not stupid. Evolution wouldn't have made homo sapiens to lose the endogenous AA production if it would be remotely necessary to achieve good health.

Or to put it in another way, I don't doubt AA supplementation can have big ammounts of beneficial effects, but not because of that explanation.

My opinion.

You're very welcome and none taken! Actually it is estimated to be before the homo sapiens split, since we share this dysfunctional GLO gene with the other primates. The argument is the subpopulation with the defective enzyme was able to out starve the remainder during an ice age. Apparently our attempt to transform glucose into ascorbic acid is what results in the production of cholesterol. Sufficient supplementation of C or B3 over time reduces production of cholesterol. An optometrist I interviewed in England, Sydney Bush, showed that through pictures of the back of the retina, you could actually see the reversal of cholesterol deposits in the arteries of his mega dosing patients. The other patients slowly continue to show worsened deposits. He proposed cardio-retinometry; to monitor the cardiovascular system by check ups of the arteries this way but the NHS wouldn't have any of it and he was struck from the register after refusing to back down on his claims: Sydney Bush
I find it all very convincing but to each their own of course...
From the results that have been published in the clinical observations from decades of experience of Dr Klenner and Dr Cathcart, I took their advice and it seems to be working for myself and many others that claim the same.

At the end of the day, I agree the why doesn't really matter, as long as we're getting the benefits...

 

[Whichway?]

You're very welcome! I always take AA as Cathcart said it was twice as effective orally as SA.

Do you do anything to protect your teeth from the acidity of large doses of AA?

 

[yerrag]

@Andrew Vajda I should let you know that I had a phone call with a marketing person of DSM based in Singapore after I emailed their Singapore office. I expressed to them that low lead levels is a criteria that a segment of the market is looking for. I said that if DSM has that quality in their product, it should advertise that aspect in addition to the GMO-free quality.

Is it possible that DSM is eliminating you as a distributor because your pricing is making it harder for them to protect the pricing of vitamin C sold through their doctor channels?

Would it be outside the realm of possibility that you consider sourcing from another supplier, maybe US-based, even if GMO-free isn't guaranteed, as long as they have the production capability and high process control standards that guarantee a consistently low level of lead contamination in their product?

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Do you do anything to protect your teeth from the acidity of large doses of AA?

I believe it was Saul or Cathcart that just suggested swishing some water around after drinking it. I sometimes chase with water but don't really worry about it. I've been taking huge doses since 2005 with no issues. Haven't had any cavities either...

 

[Andrew Vajda]

@Andrew Vajda I should let you know that I had a phone call with a marketing person of DSM based in Singapore after I emailed their Singapore office. I expressed to them that low lead levels is a criteria that a segment of the market is looking for. I said that if DSM has that quality in their product, it should advertise that aspect in addition to the GMO-free quality.

Is it possible that DSM is eliminating you as a distributor because your pricing is making it harder for them to protect the pricing of vitamin C sold through their doctor channels?

Would it be outside the realm of possibility that you consider sourcing from another supplier, maybe US-based, even if GMO-free isn't guaranteed, as long as they have the production capability and high process control standards that guarantee a consistently low level of lead contamination in their product?

Thanks for the heads up and the suggestions Yerrag.

The thing is DSM doesn't sell to the public, which is why I opened this company. I don't think DSM cares whether or not I buy from them as I calculate my yearly volume is about .01% of their annual production. I just think that my current sales rep was annoyed at me continuing to try and haggle her and she just jacked up my price to either force me to buy or close and not bother her anymore. As luck would have it, an old high school buddy turns out to be good friends with a VIP at DSM so he reached out to him to plead my case. Waiting on an answer on him securing me a several year deal.

I have put so much time and effort into this for the last 5 years for virtually no money that I am frankly ready to stop if it ends with DSM. I've never seen any other vitamin C powder that comes remotely close to DSM's ultra fine. I bought an unrelated business in BC that I will be working on full time come March 1st. I'll be off to a training for the first 11 days of February so I'll be harder to reach.

I'll still be publishing my archives on omarchives.org as time permits. I have 54 hours of interviews as well as a collection of old audio tapes I had remastered, with conversations between Pauling, Klenner, Cathcart, Stone and many others.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks for the heads up and the suggestions Yerrag.

The thing is DSM doesn't sell to the public, which is why I opened this company. I don't think DSM cares whether or not I buy from them as I calculate my yearly volume is about .01% of their annual production. I just think that my current sales rep was annoyed at me continuing to try and haggle her and she just jacked up my price to either force me to buy or close and not bother her anymore. As luck would have it, an old high school buddy turns out to be good friends with a VIP at DSM so he reached out to him to plead my case. Waiting on an answer on him securing me a several year deal.

I have put so much time and effort into this for the last 5 years for virtually no money that I am frankly ready to stop if it ends with DSM. I've never seen any other vitamin C powder that comes remotely close to DSM's ultra fine. I bought an unrelated business in BC that I will be working on full time come March 1st. I'll be off to a training for the first 11 days of February so I'll be harder to reach.

I'll still be publishing my archives on omarchives.org as time permits. I have 54 hours of interviews as well as a collection of old audio tapes I had remastered, with conversations between Pauling, Klenner, Cathcart, Stone and many others.

The powder I get from Revitalize Wellness is ultra fine and completely dissolves in seconds. You should get in touch with her she spent a lot of time to find the best supplier.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

The powder I get from Revitalize Wellness is ultra fine and completely dissolves in seconds. You should get in touch with her she spent a lot of time to find the best supplier.

Thanks Janelle, as long as I can resupply the ultra fine from DSM I'll stick to that, otherwise I'll keep this one in mind as a back up to try.

 

[yerrag]

Thanks Janelle, as long as I can resupply the ultra fine from DSM I'll stick to that, otherwise I'll keep this one in mind as a back up to try.

Sorry if I missed this on your website faq, but what is ultrafine that you can't compensate for with vigorous stirring or shaking?

 

[Luk3]

Hi, @Andrew Vajda. Do you know much about Nutriscript? I bought there Quali-C sodium ascorbate a few weeks back. It seems good quality and mixes very quickly, but I’m now concerned given they are so much cheaper than yourself and you make very little profit. They’re AA is just £15 for 250g on Amazon UK.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

It is high-priced vitamin C, but I'm glad it's out there. A+++ is where among other contaminants, lead is at .025 ppm, or 25 ppb.

This sells at $20/125 grams or $0.16/g.

Whereas this product, https://smile.amazon.com/Biofinest-Sodium-Ascorbate-Vitamin-Powder/dp/B07G43KQHC , sells at $0.05/g, which is a 200% premium over a product that lacks this certification.

Quali-C has its ascorbate powder (not sodium ascorbate) sold at $14/250 g, or at $.056/g as an ascorbic acid , which would be equivalent to $.05/g in sodium ascorbate terms. I just think that if Quali-C has an equivalent product but (I assume) refuses to let its branded distributors (such as Doctor's Best) advertise their product as low-lead, as I would assume, it really makes me wonder what their motivation is. Yet Labdoor tested its vitamin C capsules, and found lead to be at 6 ppb. But the test results don't necessarily guarantee all vitamin C from Doctor's Best will always have that quality.

It's overpriced though in the absence of any sellers offering such certification, it's a good opportunity for Mike Adams to make money identifying and serving this need.

Hi @yerrag, I’ll answer your question on the differences between the grades of Quali-C here as it is more relevant to this post that I would like to address as well:

Mike Adams, and I’ll try not to be too bitter about this, had once posted that fallacy about ascorbic acid being an empty shell of vitamin C on his natural news website. I reached out to him and presented Stone and Pauling and Cathcart’s work and counter arguments. I then asked him to help me sell my Ultra Fine Quali-C from DSM on his site.

He ignored me, and I found out later, started selling a lower grade of Quali-C himself. You’ll notice on the page describing his low lead vitamin C, that it’s made in Scotland. There’s only one manufacturer in Scotland and that’s DSM in Dalry.

So he is now selling the lower grade Quali-C ascorbic acid at 19.95/ 125g + 6.95$ shipping = 26.90$ for 125g

Health Ranger's Nutrition Rescue Non-GMO Vitamin C Powder (125 grams)

Which equates to 72.46$/lb (454g) for the lower grade (an order of 4 would ship free) , compared to my 45$ for the highest grade of DSM’s quail-C:

Ultra Fine Non GMO Vitamin C Powder. Made in the UK. Highest grade of DSM’s Quali-C.

The Health Ranger’s price further casts doubts on Doctor’s Best ability to sell at 14$/250g. To be able to sell on iherb and vitacost at 16$ means those sites are buying from DB at 1/3 of that. I honestly call BS on them being able to turn a profit wholesaling at 5.33$/lb. If I believed that, I would shut down immediately. I would make more money working part time anywhere than I have running this company full time for the last 5 years. I've taken 30K$ in salary total in the 5 years I've done this full time. (I’ll be part time from March 1st, starting another unrelated business). I do it because I know it’s the right thing to do and it feels good to help people get healthy. I sold my apartment in 2005 when I first learned about all this and wen't broke trying to make a documentary about it by myself. I published the most important interviews already on Video Archives Of Orthomolecular (Nutritional) Medicine | OMArchives.org

Sorry if I missed this on your website faq, but what is ultrafine that you can't compensate for with vigorous stirring or shaking?

No worries, well, I consider the Quali-C product line a different class of vitamin C. Then you have the grades of normal, fine and ultra fine.

I chose to only sell the ultra fine after reading this on the Vitamin C Foundation’s website:

"I strongly recommend you sell ultrafine powder labeled as world finest. There is no problem in using DSM fine powder, but there is clear difference when you go mega dose with ultra-fine powder reaching more that 10 g a day. You can sell the fine powder or crystals, but they are second or third grade (larger) at least in terms of size of the granules of ascorbic acid. Those differences result in the difference in bowel tolerance doses, which Dr. Robert Cathcart, III, insisted as the ideal dose of oral megadose Vitamin C therapy to individuals." - Byeong Keun Ha, M.D., Ph.D.

( Vitamin C Foundation - China-Free™ Vitamin C Source )

I don’t have the scientific background necessary to confirm that statement. However since using it I can confirm it does dissolve much faster than anything else I’ve seen, and customers claim they have better results with this than anything else and don’t have any strange side effects. Also, as I mentioned in other posts, Doctor’s Best (now a Chinese company) has been getting reviews stating the safety seal isn’t holding, that the powder isn’t dissolving completely and accusing them of selling fake Quali-C. And again, my sales rep at DSM confirmed to me by email that Doctor’s Best is not buying from them.

Of course as always, in the words of Linus Pauling, “Never trust blindly what old men tell you, not even me! Question, experiment, and draw your own conclusions” or as I like to summarize, C4yourself! Actually, I like that quote so much, I'll add it to my signature! :)

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Thank you all for all the great questions. I am planning on posting them on my FAQ. Does anyone object to me posting their usernames or linking to this forum?

 

[yerrag]

Hi @yerrag, I’ll answer your question on the differences between the grades of Quali-C here as it is more relevant to this post that I would like to address as well:

Mike Adams, and I’ll try not to be too bitter about this, had once posted that fallacy about ascorbic acid being an empty shell of vitamin C on his natural news website. I reached out to him and presented Stone and Pauling and Cathcart’s work and counter arguments. I then asked him to help me sell my Ultra Fine Quali-C from DSM on his site.

He ignored me, and I found out later, started selling a lower grade of Quali-C himself. You’ll notice on the page describing his low lead vitamin C, that it’s made in Scotland. There’s only one manufacturer in Scotland and that’s DSM in Dalry.

So he is now selling the lower grade Quali-C ascorbic acid at 19.95/ 125g + 6.95$ shipping = 26.90$ for 125g

Health Ranger's Nutrition Rescue Non-GMO Vitamin C Powder (125 grams)

Which equates to 72.46$/lb (454g) for the lower grade (an order of 4 would ship free) , compared to my 45$ for the highest grade of DSM’s quail-C:

Ultra Fine Non GMO Vitamin C Powder. Made in the UK. Highest grade of DSM’s Quali-C.

The Health Ranger’s price further casts doubts on Doctor’s Best ability to sell at 14$/250g. To be able to sell on iherb and vitacost at 16$ means those sites are buying from DB at 1/3 of that. I honestly call BS on them being able to turn a profit wholesaling at 5.33$/lb. If I believed that, I would shut down immediately. I would make more money working part time anywhere than I have running this company full time for the last 5 years. (I’ll be part time from March 1st, starting another unrelated business) I do it because I know it’s the right thing to do and it feels good to help people get healthy.




No worries, well, I consider the Quali-C product line a different class of vitamin C. Then you have the grades of normal, fine and ultra fine.

I chose to only sell the ultra fine after reading this on the Vitamin C Foundation’s website:

"I strongly recommend you sell ultrafine powder labeled as world finest. There is no problem in using DSM fine powder, but there is clear difference when you go mega dose with ultra-fine powder reaching more that 10 g a day. You can sell the fine powder or crystals, but they are second or third grade (larger) at least in terms of size of the granules of ascorbic acid. Those differences result in the difference in bowel tolerance doses, which Dr. Robert Cathcart, III, insisted as the ideal dose of oral megadose Vitamin C therapy to individuals." - Byeong Keun Ha, M.D., Ph.D.

( Vitamin C Foundation - China-Free™ Vitamin C Source )

I don’t have the scientific background necessary to confirm that statement. However since using it I can confirm it does dissolve much faster than anything else I’ve seen, and customers claim they have better results with this than anything else and don’t have any strange side effects. Also, as I mentioned in other posts, Doctor’s Best (now a Chinese company) has been getting reviews stating the safety seal isn’t holding, that the powder isn’t dissolving completely and accusing them of selling fake Quali-C. And again, my sales rep at DSM confirmed to me by email that Doctor’s Best is not buying from them.

Of course as always, in the words of Linus Pauling, “Never trust blindly what old men tell you, not even me! Question, experiment, and draw your own conclusions” or as I like to summarize, C4yourself! :)

Your experience with Mike Adam's is regrettable but I'm not surprised. I had long lingered my suspicion on Mike Adams. I've stopped reading anything of his. He pictures himself a crusader but he has insidious motives to profit off people's distrust of mainstream medicine and of deceitful corporations such as Monsanto. Perhaps he has a. noble motive but that's what makes him Machiavelli an his approach. I object very much to his censorship of constructively critical comments on his website. I don't even know if his lab tests are to be trusted. I get the impression he is a pure marketer. He is no different than a motivational speaker who knows to work the crowds but doesn't believe anything he says.

Thanks for your explaining ultrafine vitamin C. It may have some merit. I think so because it's highly possible that the fineness allows for ascorbic acid to be quickly dissolved, and thus eliminates the need for longer times stirring and shaking. As ascorbic acid gets oxidized quickly, the longer it is exposed the lesser its strength. Which is why it's best to drink the AA solution as soon as it's dissolved. This, by the way, is the reason I've stopped my practice of mixing my day's dose of AA in a water bottle, and sipping from it. I find it less convenient to take AA as freshly mixed as possible, but it's a good trade-off.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Your experience with Mike Adam's is regrettable but I'm not surprised. I had long lingered my suspicion on Mike Adams. I've stopped reading anything of his. He pictures himself a crusader but he has insidious motives to profit off people's distrust of mainstream medicine and of deceitful corporations such as Monsanto. Perhaps he has a. noble motive but that's what makes him Machiavelli an his approach. I object very much to his censorship of constructively critical comments on his website. I don't even know if his lab tests are to be trusted. I get the impression he is a pure marketer. He is no different than a motivational speaker who knows to work the crowds but doesn't believe anything he says.

Thanks for your explaining ultrafine vitamin C. It may have some merit. I think so because it's highly possible that the fineness allows for ascorbic acid to be quickly dissolved, and thus eliminates the need for longer times stirring and shaking. As ascorbic acid gets oxidized quickly, the longer it is exposed the lesser its strength. Which is why it's best to drink the AA solution as soon as it's dissolved. This, by the way, is the reason I've stopped my practice of mixing my day's dose of AA in a water bottle, and sipping from it. I find it less convenient to take AA as freshly mixed as possible, but it's a good trade-off.

Thanks Yerrag, I've come to the same conclusion and also stopped reading him. Although for whatever motivation or marketing tactic lies behind his actions, he has contributed to making clean water and growing systems available in disaster areas, and also for a while at least, offered Chinese vitamin C to poor children in other countries while selling the Quali-C. These days, you have to take the bad with the good unfortunately...

I fully agree with you that there will be degradation. I personally do the bottle because otherwise I don't mix the AA often enough in the day. So I consider the degradation an acceptable loss to make sure I'm still dosing all day. Some people keep their main bottle in the fridge and serve themselves a glass at a time. I just like to have mine with me. I think the losses over one day would be negligible. I had saved a study on exactly that measure but hadn't read it yet. I'll have to dig around and find it. I'll post it here when I do.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks Yerrag, I've come to the same conclusion and also stopped reading him. Although for whatever motivation or marketing tactic lies behind his actions, he has contributed to making clean water and growing systems available in disaster areas, and also for a while at least, offered Chinese vitamin C to poor children in other countries while selling the Quali-C. These days, you have to take the bad with the good unfortunately...

I fully agree with you that there will be degradation. I personally do the bottle because otherwise I don't mix the AA often enough in the day. So I consider the degradation an acceptable loss to make sure I'm still dosing all day. Some people keep their main bottle in the fridge and serve themselves a glass at a time. I just like to have mine with me. I think the losses over one day would be negligible. I had saved a study on exactly that measure but hadn't read it yet. I'll have to dig around and find it. I'll post it here when I do.

Thanks. I’m interested in this.

 

[Andrew Vajda]

Thanks. I’m interested in this.

You're very welcome! Thanks to @yerrag too for bringing this up. I certainly won't use tap water ever again!

I found the study and basically, huge oxidation in tapwater (93% after 3 hours at room temperature), none in bottled water:
Oxidative decomposition of vitamin C in drinking water. - PubMed - NCBI

Oxidative decomposition of vitamin C in drinking water.
Jansson PJ, et al. Free Radic Res. 2004.

Authors
Jansson PJ1, Jung HR, Lindqvist C, Nordström T.
Author information
1
Department of Biochemistry and Pharmacy, Abo Akademi University, BioCity, 20521 Turku, Finland.
Citation
Free Radic Res. 2004 Aug;38(8):855-60.

Abstract
We have previously shown that vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can initiate hydroxyl radical formation in copper contaminated household drinking water. In the present study, we have examined the stability of vitamin C in copper and bicarbonate containing household drinking water. In drinking water samples, contaminated with copper from the pipes and buffered with bicarbonate, 35% of the added vitamin C was oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid within 15 min. After 3h incubation at room temperature, 93% of the added (2 mM) ascorbic acid had been oxidized. The dehydroascorbic acid formed was further decomposed to oxalic acid and threonic acid by the hydrogen peroxide generated from the copper (I) autooxidation in the presence of oxygen. A very modest oxidation of vitamin C occurred in Milli-Q water and in household water samples not contaminated by copper ions. Moreover, addition of vitamin C to commercially sold domestic bottled water samples did not result in vitamin C oxidation. Our results demonstrate that ascorbic acid is rapidly oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid and further decomposed to oxalic- and threonic acid in copper contaminated household tap water that is buffered with bicarbonate. The impact of consuming ascorbic acid together with copper and bicarbonate containing drinking water on human health is discussed.

PMID
15493459 [Indexed for MEDLINE]