J
jb116
Guest
Sugar and adequate thiamine should help a lot regarding the pyruvate to CO2 route.
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@haidut - so glad you came out with this. Have been hounding you for a long time about it as i am sure others have. You're #2 on the GOAT rankings to PEAT. Climbing quickly though. In all seriousness, its surprising a ketoacid aids glycolysis no? Or am i being a simpleton thinking this way?
@haidut, What is the BEST thing we can do, to ensure the Pyruvate goes to CO2. Most likely is to make sure we have enough sugar on hand, right?
Day 3 20 drop shot in OJ. Had a strong alert productive day - made lots of $ today. Forgot to smudge 4 drops on GF this morning.
I won't keep boring everyone but plan is to keep up the 20 drop shots daily until 4/15 at least. If it quits working and I start pooping out I will report in. Otherwise assume the stuff is still helping my naturally sputtering engine run a lot better.
I just wanted to thank Haidut for his outstanding research here.
Well, it is explained in the thread. GSH is VERY high in cancer and many other chronic degenerative conditions. I did not say it should be brought down to zero, not sure where you saw that suggestion. I pointed out the bringing GSH down to zero as an example of how these two chemicals can shift the balance strongly towards oxidation. Most people have their redox status shifted towards reduction and by lowering GSH, NADH, lactate, etc their status shifts towards oxidation, which increases metabolism.
As a result, the more familiar NAD/NADH and GSSG/GSH ratios also rise. The former needs no introduction, but the latter is extremely important in cancer. Cancer cells accumulate massive amounts of GSH and they use it to protect themselves from the ROS generated by chemotherapy. In fact, the high GSH levels is considered the primary factor in "chemotherapy resistance" and Big Pharma has spend a lot of money on trying to identify chemicals that can deplete GSH. Well, as one of the studies in the references section below shows, administering high dose acetoacetate for just one day dropped GSH levels to zero, while a more moderate dose (available in our product) also dropped GSH levels down to zero after 3-4 days of administration. As it turns out, pyruvate is also capable of such effects GSH-depleting effects.
Do you have a reference for that?
Very often the exact opposite is claimed.
Not saying that I disagree, but I would like to read more evidence.
@haidut
I'm still a little confused by the GSSG:GSH ratio thing and your responses to @Mufasa and @Dave Clark ...
I think I get the explanation on the redox status needing to shift form reduction to oxidation in many people, but I would think there would be a difference in improving the ratio while keeping some GSH and improving the ratio by dropping GSH to nearly zero. Take the quote below for example,
You say it should not be brought down to zero, but in your original product post below you say (bold and italics),
Are you not saying that if we were to take the dose listed on the bottle for 3-4 days, it would drop our GSH levels to zero? And I also get where that would be helpful in cancer patients, but still not sure why zero would be desirable in normal or somewhat normal individuals? If you are saying that taking the dose on the bottle will lead to zero GSH in 3-4 days, could one infer that a non-cancer patient may want to take the product every other day to avoid a complete zeroing of GSH?
Lastly and sorry for the long post..., I was curious if there were any references for this in non-cancer patients as Mufasa had requested? From Wikipedia quoted below, they say that an increased ratio of GSSG:GSH is a sign of oxidative stress, not to mention the bullet point list below that names several of the key functions of GSH which make it seem like it would be detrimental to drop GSH too low (except maybe in the case of cancer patients undergoing treatment). Especially concerning is the last bullet point that that says low levels of GSH cause systematic breakage of the cell and excessively low levels cause rapid cell death? It seems there are a lot of positives to this product based on all the studies on EP and EA, but I just want to make sure I'm not doing anything detrimental when it comes to the GSSG:GSH ratio. Any explanation for those like myself who don't have the scientific background you do would be greatly appreciated.
"In healthy cells and tissue, more than 90% of the total glutathione pool is in the reduced form (GSH) and less than 10% exists in the disulfide form (GSSG). An increased GSSG-to-GSH ratio is considered indicative of oxidative stress.[24]
Glutathione participates in thiol protection and redox regulation of cellular thiol proteins under oxidative stress by protein S-glutathionylation, a redox-regulated post-translational thiol modification.
Glutathione has multiple functions:
- It maintains levels of reduced glutaredoxin and glutathione peroxidase.[25]
- It is one of the major endogenous antioxidants produced by the cells, participating directly in the neutralization of free radicals and reactive oxygen compounds, as well as maintaining exogenous antioxidants such as vitamins C and E in their reduced (active) forms.[26][27][28]
- Regulation of the nitric oxide cycle is critical for life, but can be problematic if unregulated.[29] Glutathione enhances the function of citrulline as part of the nitric oxide cycle.
- It is used in metabolic and biochemical reactions such as DNA synthesis and repair, protein synthesis, prostaglandin synthesis, amino acid transport, and enzyme activation. Thus, every system in the body can be affected by the state of the glutathione system, especially the immune system, the nervous system, the gastrointestinal system, and the lungs.[citation needed]
- It has a vital function in iron metabolism. Yeast cells depleted of GSH or containing toxic levels of GSH show an intense iron starvation-like response and impairment of the activity of extramitochondrial ISC enzymes thus inhibiting oxidative endoplasmic reticulum folding, followed by death.[30]
- It has roles in progression of the cell cycle, including cell death.[5] GSH levels regulate redox changes to nuclear proteins necessary for the initiation of cell differentiation. Differences in GSH levels also determine the expressed mode of cell death, being either apoptosis or cell necrosis. Manageably low levels result in the systematic breakage of the cell whereas excessively low levels result in rapid cell death.[31]"
The reason I bolded the point about dropping GSH to zero is to highlight how potent an effect it could have. Very few chemicals out there are known to be able to achieve that, so it is definitely something noteworthy about acetoacetate that deserves highlighting. Again, it does not mean this is an outcome people should strive for. How is this not clear??
In some people lowering GSH as much as possible is desirable. Again, nowhere did I say the goal is to drop it zero. Most chronic diseases are conditions of excessive reductive stress, not oxidative stress. Hence, lowering GSH and thus raising the GSSG/GSH ratio may help in many cases. If you search Peat's website for GSH you will find quite a bit of other information that should answer your questions.
Thanks for the reply Haidut! I'll check out the Peat website articles.
I'm guessing it's a highly variable answer, but thought I'd ask anyways... Do you have an approximation of how quickly GSH levels tend to increase after the use of a product like Pyrucet has ceased?
BumpHas anyone had better success with oral versus topical?
Has anyone had better success with oral versus topical?
Bump
Oral definitely increases my appetite more noticeably (which I'm not sure is proxy for overall potency). Otherwise I'm still trying to define better. I'm taking it largely for athletic performance, so I may not be the typical use case here. I do suspect oral is more potent overall but tough to make that a hard-and-fast rule at this point.
Do we know what the half life of the EP would be? Also, for targeting bowel inflammation/endotoxin and the clotting response should orally or topically be equally ok or different?