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Pyrucet - Liquid (ethyl) Pyruvate/Aceatoacetate Mix

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    Sugar and adequate thiamine should help a lot regarding the pyruvate to CO2 route.
     
  2. GAF

    GAF Member

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    Thx jb116.
    Yesterday I ran out of energy at 430pm and had to nap. I usually take a B1 mono daily but did not yesterday. I will take one now. Took my 20dropshot 30min ago.
     
  3. Jsaute21

    Jsaute21 Member

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    @haidut - so glad you came out with this. Have been hounding you for a long time about it as i am sure others have. You're #2 on the GOAT rankings to PEAT. Climbing quickly though. In all seriousness, its surprising a ketoacid aids glycolysis no? Or am i being a simpleton thinking this way?
     
  4. Jsaute21

    Jsaute21 Member

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    just bought 2X.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    PDH is not part of glycolysis. It is the first enzyme that is part of OXPHOS and is inside the mitochondria. But yeah, I was surprised too that pyruvate stimulates its own oxidation.
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The purpose of pyruvate in this product is not to boost CO2. It is to activate PDH so that the sugar you eat is properly metabolized. But as far as ensuring most pyruvate going towards CO2 - thiamine, niacinamide, magnesium and keeping fatty acids low are the main things that ensure high CO2 synthesis.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Great, thanks for the feedback. Keep us posted.
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks for the nice words.
     
  9. chimdp

    chimdp Member

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    @haidut

    I'm still a little confused by the GSSG:GSH ratio thing and your responses to @Mufasa and @Dave Clark ...

    I think I get the explanation on the redox status needing to shift form reduction to oxidation in many people, but I would think there would be a difference in improving the ratio while keeping some GSH and improving the ratio by dropping GSH to nearly zero. Take the quote below for example,

    You say it should not be brought down to zero, but in your original product post below you say (bold and italics),

    Are you not saying that if we were to take the dose listed on the bottle for 3-4 days, it would drop our GSH levels to zero? And I also get where that would be helpful in cancer patients, but still not sure why zero would be desirable in normal or somewhat normal individuals? If you are saying that taking the dose on the bottle will lead to zero GSH in 3-4 days, could one infer that a non-cancer patient may want to take the product every other day to avoid a complete zeroing of GSH?

    Lastly and sorry for the long post..., I was curious if there were any references for this in non-cancer patients as Mufasa had requested? From Wikipedia quoted below, they say that an increased ratio of GSSG:GSH is a sign of oxidative stress, not to mention the bullet point list below that names several of the key functions of GSH which make it seem like it would be detrimental to drop GSH too low (except maybe in the case of cancer patients undergoing treatment). Especially concerning is the last bullet point that that says low levels of GSH cause systematic breakage of the cell and excessively low levels cause rapid cell death? It seems there are a lot of positives to this product based on all the studies on EP and EA, but I just want to make sure I'm not doing anything detrimental when it comes to the GSSG:GSH ratio. Any explanation for those like myself who don't have the scientific background you do would be greatly appreciated.


    "In healthy cells and tissue, more than 90% of the total glutathione pool is in the reduced form (GSH) and less than 10% exists in the disulfide form (GSSG). An increased GSSG-to-GSH ratio is considered indicative of oxidative stress.[24]

    Glutathione participates in thiol protection and redox regulation of cellular thiol proteins under oxidative stress by protein S-glutathionylation, a redox-regulated post-translational thiol modification.

    Glutathione has multiple functions:

    • It maintains levels of reduced glutaredoxin and glutathione peroxidase.[25]
    • It is one of the major endogenous antioxidants produced by the cells, participating directly in the neutralization of free radicals and reactive oxygen compounds, as well as maintaining exogenous antioxidants such as vitamins C and E in their reduced (active) forms.[26][27][28]
    • Regulation of the nitric oxide cycle is critical for life, but can be problematic if unregulated.[29] Glutathione enhances the function of citrulline as part of the nitric oxide cycle.
    • It is used in metabolic and biochemical reactions such as DNA synthesis and repair, protein synthesis, prostaglandin synthesis, amino acid transport, and enzyme activation. Thus, every system in the body can be affected by the state of the glutathione system, especially the immune system, the nervous system, the gastrointestinal system, and the lungs.[citation needed]
    • It has a vital function in iron metabolism. Yeast cells depleted of GSH or containing toxic levels of GSH show an intense iron starvation-like response and impairment of the activity of extramitochondrial ISC enzymes thus inhibiting oxidative endoplasmic reticulum folding, followed by death.[30]
    • It has roles in progression of the cell cycle, including cell death.[5] GSH levels regulate redox changes to nuclear proteins necessary for the initiation of cell differentiation. Differences in GSH levels also determine the expressed mode of cell death, being either apoptosis or cell necrosis. Manageably low levels result in the systematic breakage of the cell whereas excessively low levels result in rapid cell death.[31]"
     
  10. Jsaute21

    Jsaute21 Member

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    Has anyone had better success with oral versus topical?
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The reason I bolded the point about dropping GSH to zero is to highlight how potent an effect it could have. Very few chemicals out there are known to be able to achieve that, so it is definitely something noteworthy about acetoacetate that deserves highlighting. Again, it does not mean this is an outcome people should strive for. How is this not clear??
    In some people lowering GSH as much as possible is desirable. Again, nowhere did I say the goal is to drop it zero. Most chronic diseases are conditions of excessive reductive stress, not oxidative stress. Hence, lowering GSH and thus raising the GSSG/GSH ratio may help in many cases. If you search Peat's website for GSH you will find quite a bit of other information that should answer your questions.
     
  12. chimdp

    chimdp Member

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    Thanks for the reply Haidut! I'll check out the Peat website articles.

    I'm guessing it's a highly variable answer, but thought I'd ask anyways... Do you have an approximation of how quickly GSH levels tend to increase after the use of a product like Pyrucet has ceased?
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Unless the person is somehow HYPER metabolic, GSH levels probably recover within days as the GSSG gets quickly reduced back to GSH in the absence of continuing exposure to an oxidizing agent.
     
  14. James b

    James b Member

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    Bump
     
  15. truegrit

    truegrit Member

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    Oral definitely increases my appetite more noticeably (which I'm not sure is a proxy for overall potency). Otherwise I'm still trying to define better. I'm taking it largely for athletic performance, so I may not be the typical use case here. I do suspect oral is more potent overall but tough to make that a hard-and-fast rule at this point.
     
  16. Jsaute21

    Jsaute21 Member

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    Same boat here.
     
  17. DCLOSE

    DCLOSE Member

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    Amesome to know that 6-Keto P4 can also achieve FAO inhibition.
     
  18. jaakkima

    jaakkima Member

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    Do we know what the half life of the EP would be? Also, for targeting bowel inflammation/endotoxin and the clotting response should orally or topically be equally ok or different?
     
  19. SB4

    SB4 Member

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    Does anyone know how long it takes to reach peak serum after ingestion? Also what search terms to use when trying to find this information. I have tried "bioavalibility" and "peak serum" but couldn't find what I was looking for.
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Half life is unlikely to be very long as both the EP and EA can be metabolized into their respective constituents and those then get quickly oxidized. I would say 3-4 hours for half life. However, the effects from activating PDH and suppressing FAO can last much longer depending on the person. A study with calcium pyruvate found it half life to be about 5 hours.
    The bioavailability of calcium in the form of pyruvate, carbonate, citrate–malate in healthy postmenopausal women
     
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