Pyrucet - Liquid (ethyl) Pyruvate/Aceatoacetate Mix

[haidut]

My experience with twenty non uniform drops this Saturday mid day
was to experience a shift fifteen minutes later
that had a pleasant demeanor
of a very fine activity taking place throughout my body
in a brightening of consciousness
as yes I would say that the metabolism of my brain
was being supported
now hours later I still feel a shift has taken place
but I have taken Cardenosine as well today.....

What I will do tomorrow is a guess
but I think that I like this formula
and thus I may go for a full dose
or see how I respond to a fraction
perhaps fearing a full dose might not
provide the full shift again as the first time
which indicates that I liked the first taste
topically that was, with two drops in the mouth.

Thanks to Haidut!!!!
A bit of genius and hard work to come up with a novel combination
is a relevant invention & Art.

Bruce Marshall

Thanks Bruce! Keep us posted please.

 

[haidut]

Several ppl have been trying to find an ethyl pyruvate source

So, are you saying EP is already known in the CFS community? Can you please send some links where they discuss it on other forums?

 

[haidut]

@haidut I always assumed that pyruvate reduction /reductive stress, in which pyruvate is reduced to lactate instead of oxidized into acetylcoa , was caused by impaired pyruvate dehydrogenase function in a way that was independent of the amount of pyruvate. Hence I assumed that adding more pyruvate would just result in reduction to lactate if there’s a problem with pyruvate dehydrogenase. Otherwise ppl with pyruvate dehydrogenase complex deficiency could just eat more carbs? Whereas I think some of them do Keto somewhat successfully to manage it Bc they can’t seem to oxidize glucose at all??

Well, the studies that I posted show that pyruvate does activate PDH in a sort of a positive feedback cycle. So, even if come pyruvate gets converted to lactate the net effect is still increases glucose oxidation. Also, the acetoacetate should be able to reduce/prevent the lactate formation as it is another oxidizing agent that can keep PDH running. PDH activity depends primarily on the redox ratio (assuming deficiency of cofactors like thiamine is not an issue), and since both agents increase strongly NAD/NADH ratio that is probably what prevents the lactate buildup.

 

[haidut]

The neurological studies seem suggest EP functions also under conditions you described - pyruvat dehydrogenase impairment and lactic acid increase is a hallmark of many forms of subcranial bleeding. Maybe the ethyl group is key? Does it prevent from reduction and this functionally replaces the lacking physiological pyruvste?

That's what one of the studies seemed to show, because neither ethanol nor pyruvate were able to replicate the effects, and giving ethanol + pyruvate together did not either. So, there is something about ethyl pyruvate as whole molecule that enables these effects and it is probably its stability and resistance to metabolism by LDH.

 

[haidut]

I just wanted to report that I woke up after my first dose of Pyrucet with chest pains, which usually indicates magnesium deficiency for me. I took 5 drops of Magnoil, and it went away. I think that this is increasing my magnesium requirements. It seems to be optimizing my metabolism at a very high level. I'm very intrigued by this product.

Thanks. Magnesium is also a cofactor for glucose metabolism so sounds plausible. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, make sure it is always consumed with sugar as t increases its metabolism and some of the studies in the original post showed that the benefits of EP/EA manifest mostly when given together with glucose/carbs.

 

[mirc12354]

Could You please elaborate on Mildronate toxicity you are mentionig in this thread?

 

[Dave Clark]

Well, it is explained in the thread. GSH is VERY high in cancer and many other chronic degenerative conditions. I did not say it should be brought down to zero, not sure where you say that suggestion. I pointed out the bringing GSH down to zero as an example of how these two chemicals can shift the balance strongly towards oxidation. Most people have their redox status shifted towards reduction and by lowering GSH, NADH, lactate, etc their status shifts towards oxidation, which increases metabolism.

I didn't mean to say that you suggested it, I was just trying to understand why GSH depletion would be a good thing in a non-cancer person. I see where it says about the anti-inflammatory effects. I also was under the impression that having high amounts of cellular GSH was a good thing for a healthy person. Like I said, I am still learning so this may make sense to me as i become more educated (I am self taught, I don't have a degree in biochemistry, medicine, etc.)

 

[haidut]

I didn't mean to say that you suggested it, I was just trying to understand why GSH depletion would be a good thing in a non-cancer person. I see where it says about the anti-inflammatory effects. I also was under the impression that having high amounts of cellular GSH was a good thing for a healthy person. Like I said, I am still learning so this may make sense to me as i become more educated (I am self taught, I don't have a degree in biochemistry, medicine, etc.)

For most people GSSG/GSH ratio is too low for optimal health and lowering GSH increases that ratio.

 

[haidut]

Could You please elaborate on Mildronate toxicity you are mentionig in this thread?

Where did you see me saying Mildronate is toxic?

 

[haidut]

Oh I see, my mistake then, I think I misinterpreted "The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate or suggest optimal dose."

So, we try to both actually and it gets confusing. The units are for measurement purposes but as far as the supplements are concerned we also try to make a dosage split that would make the bottle last 30 days if used at that dose. It just so happens that the 500mg EP/EA daily more or less match the doses used in the animal studies.

 

[Mufasa]

For most people GSSG/GSH ratio is too low for optimal health and lowering GSH increases that ratio.

Do you have a reference for that?
Very often the exact opposite is claimed.

Not saying that I disagree, but I would like to read more evidence.

 

[BRMarshall]

Day 2 mid morning

7 drops of Pyrucet on wrist
4 drops Diamant
4 drops Cardenosine

While taken at the same time, I did feel a 'shift' similar to my first experience with
Pyrucet, so definitely there is a signature to the substance, and one that I certainly like!.

Distinct and unique and one different from that of Daimat and Cardenosine which I am familiar with.

I took the smaller dose to try to understand what the parameters of response to it might be, and where there
might be the option to pace one's dose through out the day, or towards understanding what might constitute
a minimum booster dose.

My understanding, and this is not a 'lab rat' experiment, but a experience with a GRAS combo, thus far is that Pyrucet
has some important components towards addressing "learned-helplessness" and perhaps thus serve as a nutritional adjunct
to mitigating addiction strategies such that Broda Barnes for example said that alcoholism was a problem of sugar
nutrition and thus alcohol a form of rocket fuel per say, or that marijuana is an addiction to a blood rush of what is
a temporary head feeding....

While my reflections are topical, time will tell with further experimentation, without other substances, to further
understand one's response of which today I had a few smiles that I believe were gently induced by such nutritional
support.

 

[vetiver]

So, are you saying EP is already known in the CFS community? Can you please send some links where they discuss it on other forums?

I think this is on the Phoenix Rising forums?
Would lowering the GSH/GSSH be negative for someone with heavy metal toxicity?

 

[ddjd]

It seems very reminiscent of lowered serotonin. These are effects I've experienced with adamantane, methylene blue, and ritanserin.

Methylene blue raises Serotonin

 

[truegrit]

Methylene blue raises Serotonin

Methylene blue doesn't raise serotonin an appreciable amount in the dosages frequently recommended on these forums - only outsize doses seem to do that. Anything under 1mg seems to have a negligible/non-significant effect on serotonin.

 

[mirc12354]

Where did you see me saying Mildronate is toxic?

"So, I spend a lot of time over the last year looking for chemicals that work similarly to Mildronate but without toxic side effects."

 

[mangoes]

"So, I spend a lot of time over the last year looking for chemicals that work similarly to Mildronate but without toxic side effects."

From the sentence just above your quote: “Unfortunately, with the exception of Mildronate all other clinically used FAO have severe side effects, which greatly limit their use.”

So he was saying that other clinical chemicals that inhibit FAO, like mildronate does, have toxic effects, not mildronate itself.

 

[SB4]

I have purchased some and will look forward to seeing if it can help my CFS/POTS symptoms. I can see it going either way, either forcing glucose use with a stubborn PDH could result in even less energy and even more lactate accumulation, or perhaps it turns on PDH and allows carbs to be used with minimal heart symptoms.

@haidut I have had limited success with using MCT oil with carbs in order to supply excess acetylCoA and force pyruvate down to oxaloacetate and avoid PDH (at least I think that's why it helps). Could ethyl aceatoacetate act in a similar mannor in high enough dose? Could it supply suffient acetyl CoA to help pyruvate avoid PDH? Do you know of any other substances that could do this (aside from alcohol and exogenous ketones)? Problem with MCT is I get diarhea even at relatively small doses.

 

[Vinero]

Is it ok to take pyrucet if a person also takes Niacinamide and Aspirin? Or is it better to drop those?
Since Niacinamide and Aspirin also inhibit free fatty acids, adding Pyrucet might be too much inhibition of free fatty acids?

 

[GAF]

Got 2 Bottles in the mail 30 minutes ago

Got a spoon. 20 drops. I ate it. Nearly Died. DO NOT DO THIS! tastes super bad and burns! Washed down with coffee. Ok Now. No Permanent Damage.

Put 10 drops on GF forearm.

Gotta run to a lunch meeting. Fingers seem to be typing really fast.