Pyrucet - Liquid (ethyl) Pyruvate/Aceatoacetate Mix

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

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    Thanks @Amazoniac , I have supplemented all of these supplements in the past only to see PSA rise showing cancer cell proliferation. Cancer cells protect themselves from high ROS via antioxidants. I am tired of saving the cancer cell.
     
  2. mirc12354

    mirc12354 Member

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    Would anyone else mind to share their experience with this product?
     
  3. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    NAC is terrible for the thyroid
     
  4. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Yep. I quit some time ago. It is anti-thyroid.
     
  5. Satellite

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    @Obi-wan

    Wait, I can understand increasing ROS for cancerous conditions, since the environment is too acidic, but androgen depravation? For prostate cancer?
    Wasn't androgens as the cause of prostate cancer disproved a while ago?

    I am actually concerned you may have misleading information.

    For example, sometimes I buy pro-androgenic herbs from RawForestFoods dot com.
    Such as raw pine pollen powder, tongkat ali, and beta-sitosterol.

    They are all pro-androgenic, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, and pro-prostate, yet they boost and improve the body's ability to utilize androgens while strengthening the endocrine system.

    ????

    There are even reviews of people saying it works better than their prescriptions and they were able to stop taking them.
     
  6. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    @haidut
    @anyone

    So am I understanding this right?
    Taking this product doesn't increase lipolysis.
    However, fat loss is increased, because the body is using glucose properly, so the body is not in fat storing mode?
    I suppose a slight caloric deficit would increase fat loss, since there won't be enough sugar available, so the body will use the fat and muscle available?

    Ideally then, when taking this you should eat high protein, low fat, and just enough sugar to sustain?
     
  7. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

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    Androgens are not the cause of cancer but once you have prostate cancer the cancer uses androgens as fuel to proliferate via polyamines. My PSA spiked up to 12,000 and I was half dead. Firmagon knocked it back down quickly. But androgen deprivation does not kill the cancer cell. High ROS and low GSH does.
     
  8. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

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    No one should EVER take NAC!
     
  9. Satellite

    Satellite Member

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    Oh I see.

    This reminds me of some other scenarios Ray Peat has mentioned in his YT videos.

    Specifically, regarding the heart and tumors.
    For example, he says that increased cholesterol around the heart is a protective mechanism when the heart isn't working properly.
    He also mentioned sugar being used by tumors to grow, and an experiment where injecting the tumor directly with sugar caused the tumor to eat itself completely.
    He said what was occurring was that the cells were just stressed and not working properly, so it misused the sugar, but sugar isn't really the bad guy.
    In other words, the stressed cells were like cancer, a parasite that just consumes everything around it, but when injected it changed the scenario, it ate itself.

    What if you were to apply this to you and inject androgens and ROS directly into the cancer area?
    Perhaps it is akin to the tumor in that it isn't androgens themselves, but how your body uses them?
    That could be a reasonable explanation as to why those people taking the pro-androgenic herbs saw significant health improvements.
    The herbs improve the body's utilization of androgens by making the environment androgen dominant while restoring and strengthening the endocrine system.
    Ever thought about taking beta-sitosterol? It is widely known to improve the functioning of the prostate but isn't an androgen.
    Just wondering.
     
  10. debored13

    debored13 Member

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    I’m enjoying this product but have a couple questions. One is how the dosage was arrived at. In terms of maximum safe dosage would acetoacetate be the limiting factor or ethyl pyruvate —since ethyl pyruvate seems to be used at doses far exceeding the recommended dose in pyrucet, in studies. @haidut

    The other one is about GSH—why is it bad ? In ME/CFS they did studies showing lactate in brains , and the lactate was inversely correlated with glutathione. I understand this stuff about wanting redox ratio balanced more toward reducing than oxidizing but wouldn’t this depend on the particular tissue or organ? I’m reading the body electric and he talks about dc currents and their flow through the body. There are parts of the body that have more negative potential and parts that have more positive, generally, and reversal of charge when severe injuries happen. I would expect this to apply to redox states in general, that a very oxidizing state might be better in certain tissues and Vice versa
     
  11. SB4

    SB4 Member

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    @debored13 I could well be massively wrong about this but when I was calculating the LD50 dose for both ethyl acetoacetate and ethyl pyruvate I found that EA was something like 30g and EP 25g or in that ball park. So if anything it appears the EP is slightly more limiting. Still unsure of how it causes death though. Perhaps it completely kills GSH???
     
  12. debored13

    debored13 Member

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    so if one occasionally takes gsh shouldnt be a problem haha? although i'm out of gsh.

    I sort of assumed it would be fairly high. Looks like the limiting factor is cost lol thats a lot of pyrucet
     
  13. SB4

    SB4 Member

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    @debored13 Lol, yeah, the limiting factor is cost. I managed to find some 99.48% ethyl aceto acetate for pretty cheap, not sure of the quality though. I will try it once this bottle of Pyrucet runs out.

    As for the GSH thing, who knows? Not sure how easy it is to increase GSH in cells nor if that is even the cause of EA EP toxicity.
     
  14. DCLOSE

    DCLOSE Member

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    In Ray Peat's newsletter Nitric Oxide, aging, and adaptation-The Procrustean adaptogen he mentions:

    "Although a primitive adaptive mechanism such as nitric oxide can be useful for a species, it can be harmful for individuals. When hypoxia is combined with nitric oxide, nerve cells are more likely to die than when exposed to either alone (Jekabsone, et al., 2007; Mander, et al., 2005). One of the enzymes inhibited by nitric oxide is pyruvate dehydrogenase (Klimaszewska-Lata, et al., 2015, Szutowicz, et al., 2014, Abe 1999), required for the oxidation of glucose, so that a diabetes-like state is created by nitric oxide damage, forcing the use of fatty acids instead of glucose for fuel.

    Since Pyrucet can directly stimulate PDH, this direct simulation could also decrease/inhibit the toxic effects of Nitric Oxide. Or even block the formation of Nitric Oxide.


    Bench-to-bedside review: Amelioration of acute renal impairment using ethyl pyruvate

    ...Ethyl pyruvate appears to be a more effective anti-inflammatory agent than other antioxidants. This was apparent when ethyl pyruvate was compared with sodium pyruvate in lens cell culture [21], and a similar trend was observed in an in vivomodel of rat mesenteric ischaemia and reperfusion [13]. Treatment with ethyl pyruvate was more effective than sodium pyruvate in preventing the proinflammatory cytokine stimulated hyperpermeability and induction of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in Caco-2 human enterocyte-like monolayers in vitro, and in protecting against ileal mucosal hyperpermeability, bacterial translocation and hepatocellular injury in mice given LPS in vivo [22].


    Ethyl Pyruvate: A Novel Treatment for Sepsis: Ingenta Connect

    … In this reductionist in vitro system, ethyl py- ruvate also blocks secretion of the … with significantly
    lower circulating concentrations of nitrite/nitrate (marker of nitric oxide synthesis) and IL … Collectively,
    these observa- tions suggest that persistent exposure to ethyl pyruvate is not neces …
     
  15. debored13

    debored13 Member

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    goddammit, im out of my pyrucet. Its definitely my fav idealabs supplement so far but really gotta budget. If there was a cheaper option to buy in bulk or get coupons after certain number of purchases that would be sweet.
     
  16. mirc12354

    mirc12354 Member

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    What do you experience on it?
     
  17. debored13

    debored13 Member

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    Increased energy, warmth , sometimes less pain. It felt a little like t3
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, and that should be your typical diet anyways if you want to lose weight.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't think that's true. Most of the studies with rodents in the main thread used 30mg/kg - 40mg/kg daily doses which is either below or slightly above the 500mg dose in Pyrucet for most people (except for very heavy ones). Not sure why one would want to use more than what the studies proposed, but I think the acetoacetate part could be a limiting factor if indeed drops GSH too low.
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I don't think cancer cells produce a lot of ROS because they have mostly glycolysis and for ROS you need Krebs cycle and ETC. If you stimulate PDH, as ethyl pyruvate/acetoacetate seem to do AND you also deplete GSH this should take care of both the low ROS and high GSH problem in cancer cells.
     
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