Pure Red Lights (LED) vs Full Spectrum (Incandescent)

[amd]

Generative Energy Podcast #78

January 30, 2022

DR: Incandescent red light .. vs a single wavelength .. people sell those single wavelength devices for such an extraordinary amount of money .. And then maybe you mentioned that the single wavelength may actually be harmful in some ways.

RP: Yeah .. and the specific frequencies are something that just never existed in nature and so the whole system is experiencing semething new .. is always going to be something unnatural and unique.

And just the difference, just hasn't been studied enough to be sure that is even safe.

That there isn't enough skepticism about what pure red lights are doing, but there is data showing that it can make cancer grow, where the incandescent or sunlight type of absorption and resonance, no one has ever seen those effects from full spectrum.

 

[JamesGatz]

Very Interesting, I had actually switched from incandescents to orange and yellow LED's because the weather is getting warmer - felt really weird and got stressed.

It's especially important in this forum because I see quiet a few people only use red - whenever I try just using red I get very stressed after about a minute and that never happens with incandescent

Now I'm experimenting with full spectrum LED's like the ones they use for plants - just waiting for them to come in the mail

 

[-Luke-]

I recently listened to an older one of Patrick Timpone's podcasts with Ray Peat and he said something similar there referring to cancer with pure red light, although he phrased it a little more carefully and didn't mention any studies as far as I remember.

Does anyone know what data/studies Peat is referring to here?

 

[amd]

Digital simulates an analog source!

Full Spectrum LED Grow Lights: The Truth You Need to Know • LumiGrow

A full-spectrum LED grow light is simply a marketing term that implies that your grow light closely resembles light from the sun. This marketing term comes from the concept of “full-spectrum light,” which in recent years has been used to refer to electromagnetic radiation from the UV to infrared wavebands.

The full-spectrum LED grow light is the newest evolution of an already confusing term. Originally, full-spectrum light described the only real full-spectrum light source, the sun.

Over time, the term began to take on other characteristics of sunlight. The commercial lighting industry began using the name “full-spectrum” to sell lights that produced a Color Rendering Index (CRI) over 90. Humans perceive colors more accurately under light sources with a CRI over 90, much like how we see colors in our natural world under daylight.

With the advent of horticultural lighting, companies once again began to borrow the term. Only this time, they claimed that full-spectrum LEDs could reproduce the effects of sunlight for plants.

Thus, the full-spectrum LED grow light was born. Unfortunately, lighting for plants is not quite that simple.

There are three major problems when talking about full-spectrum grow lights:

1. Full-Spectrum Grow Lights Aren’t Optimized for Plants
2. Full-Spectrum Grow Lights Don’t Include the Full Solar Spectrum
3. Full-Spectrum Grow Lights Are Not Dynamic Like the Sun

 

[VitoScaletta]

Very Interesting, I had actually switched from incandescents to orange and yellow LED's because the weather is getting warmer - felt really weird and got stressed.

It's especially important in this forum because I see quiet a few people only use red - whenever I try just using red I get very stressed after about a minute and that never happens with incandescent

Now I'm experimenting with full spectrum LED's like the ones they use for plants - just waiting for them to come in the mail

Maybe the stress response is because of increased metabolism when your Glycogen stores are empty. Are you well-fed before doing red light sessions?

 

[Tim Lundeen]

LEDs are a pulsed source, the intensity increases/decreases with the 60Hz power source. I've seen a mention that pulsed light like this is bad for the eyes, but was supposedly ok for other tissue because the flicker is attenuated as it flows through other tissue. But perhaps not... we stopped using our red LED banks some time ago, don't miss them. Not sure they were a net benefit.

Incandescent or laser are continuous, no flicker, so would be safer, in case the LED flicker is a problem. I think red light is hormetic anyway, but maybe the flicker on top of the light is too damaging...

 

[liam183]

Flicker is a big issue too. Low flicker red LED should be okay for night lights, then a warm 1700-2700k flicker free incandescent during the day

 

[aniciete]

Bulbrite 250BR40H 250W 130v running at 120v

 

[PeskyPeater]

Generative Energy Podcast #78

January 30, 2022

DR: Incandescent red light .. vs a single wavelength .. people sell those single wavelength devices for such an extraordinary amount of money .. And then maybe you mentioned that the single wavelength may actually be harmful in some ways.

RP: Yeah .. and the specific frequencies are something that just never existed in nature and so the whole system is experiencing semething new .. is always going to be something unnatural and unique.

And just the difference, just hasn't been studied enough to be sure that is even safe.

That there isn't enough skepticism about what pure red lights are doing, but there is data showing that it can make cancer grow, where the incandescent or sunlight type of absorption and resonance, no one has ever seen those effects from full spectrum.

Oh dear, does this single wavelength apply to those LED panels with 650nm with 800nm or something?

 

[PeskyPeater]

OMG should I just throw it out Im going berzerk!? #omgshouldijusthrowitoutimgoingberzerk

 

[miquelangeles]

@Tim Lundeen @liam183
Modern LEDs have extremely low flicker but their spectrum is uneven and it's missing the infrared part.
But all incandescents flicker to the 50/60 Hz AC power. I'm using 12V incandescent bulbs with DC transformer that makes it flicker free.

 

[:M :B.]

I remember some old website of this guy doing high intensity red light therapy using Halogen bulbs. Problem is they are so hot which is not good. So he would put a gallon ziplock bag full of water between the area he wanted to treat and the light source. Doubt I would ever be able to find that web page again but it was awesome. Might be the best way to do it?

 

[miquelangeles]

I remember some old website of this guy doing high intensity red light therapy using Halogen bulbs. Problem is they are so hot which is not good. So he would put a gallon ziplock bag full of water between the area he wanted to treat and the light source. Doubt I would ever be able to find that web page again but it was awesome. Might be the best way to do it?

It's from a thread on longecity called "Lostfalco's Extensive Nootropic Experiments".
There are also commercial infrared lamps with water filter. One of them is Hydrosun, which is a halogen bulb with a glass filter filled with water and a fan at the other end to prevent overheating. Optionally there is a red color filter to attach.

I posted a thread here:

DIY water filtered infrared/incandescent/halogen?

Has anyone tried to make one?

raypeatforum.com

 

[Kykeon]

modern full spectrum LED still suffer from what is called the green gap. They are not efficient in producing photons in the 480 nm range,
Samsung Lm301B Diode 3500k light spectrum

Sunlight:

Incadescent:

I think the best solution would be to take a 2700K LED and then add some 660nm red light diodes and maybe one or two IR diodes. Or get a incadescent light bulb but they are really ineffecient in terms of light produced from the energy supplied.
Modern LED also have a lower CRI value compared to incadescent lightning (~80-90 vs 100), something that might affect physiology aswell, atleast it affects the photon density (higher CRI often producing less photons)
People who have a 660nm Diode maybe should supplement a normal 2700k diode to come closer to the incadescent light spectrum. The most efficient LED is from samsung right now, the lm301b, they are also available in high CRI.

 

[ReSTART]

leds have less flickering and electromagnetic radiation emission than incandescent and CFL