PSA: Change in Energin formulation (thiamine replaced by prosultiamine)

[haidut]

Are Fursultiamine and Prosultiamine the same thing? thanks @haidut

Not the same, but similar lipophilic thiamine analogs. Allithiamine and prosultiamine are naturally occurring, while fursultiamine, sulbutiamine, benfotiamine, etc are synthetic.

 

[sunny]

Preferred administration is topically or orally?

 

[Hermes]

Does anyone smell terribly the next morning when applied topically the night before? Or is this an indication that something is being detoxed?

 

[Advocate2021]

Wow excited to test the difference from the original. Is there any chance Idealabs would put out a thiamine or niacinamide only formulation since these tend to be used by many in higher amounts at times? the thiamine research and data is very compelling and have wanted to try more thiamine for my issues but intestine cannot handle the oral consumption in the amounts needed. having a topical thiamine would solve this problem- would be amazing!!

 

[exile]

I thought I got a bad batch then came here immediately and read this. I thought I had a batch with DMSO in it or something! Or it was contaminated with some sort of sulfur like drug. Just a heads up to the folks that used energin orally on their rats, this stuff tastes NOTHING like the old energin. Don't freak out! :)

Same. Definitely doesn’t mix with oj anymore like the other one.

 

[Kray]

Just a quick heads up. We changed the vitamin B1 in Energin from the thiamine Hcl to the lipophilic analog known as prosultiamine. The latter is an analog of allithiamine, and allithiamine is well-known to forum users for its high bioavailability and ability to raise levels of thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP) in muscles, brains, and other organs while the same has not been shown to occur with intake of thiamin Hcl. TPP is also a required co-factor of the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH), which is the rate-limiting step in the oxidative metabolism of glucose. PDH downregulation has been observed in many diseases including diabetes, obesity, cancer, dementia, MELAS, ALS, myopathies, mental disorders, infectious diseases, sepsis, etc.

Prosultiamine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Allithiamine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Absorption, utilization and clinical effectiveness of allithiamines compared to water-soluble thiamines - PubMed

Oral administration of lipid-soluble allithiamines [thiamine propyl disulfide (TPD) and thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTHF)] rapidly increased thiamine activity in whole blood, red blood cells, cerebrospinal fluid, and urine in normal and thiamine-deficient subjects. These thiamine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There are multiple studies on allithiamine posted on the forum and I have posted below some on prosultiamine as well. As such, the presence of porsultiamine in Energin should increase the effects associated with usage of vitamin B1. Both prosultiamine and allithiamine are naturally occurring analogs of vitamin B1, and present in high concentrations in garlic and are probably responsible for the unique smell of garlic, with Energin now smelling somewhat similar to garlic as well.

https://www.aimspress.com/fileOther/PDF/biophysics/biophy-07-01-002.pdf

Prosultiamine for treatment of lower urinary tract dysfunction accompanied by human T-lymphotropic virus type 1-associated myelopathy/tropical spastic paraparesis - PubMed

The changes in urodynamic parameters and urine levels of overactive bladder-related markers suggest that oral prosultiamine is a safe and effective treatment for overactive bladder with human T-lymphotropic virus type 1-associated myelopathy/tropical spastic paraparesis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Efficacy of prosultiamine treatment in patients with human T lymphotropic virus type I-associated myelopathy/tropical spastic paraparesis: results from an open-label clinical trial - PubMed

University Hospital Medical Information Network Clinical Trials Registry (UMIN-CTR) number, UMIN000005969. Please see related commentary: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/183.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Therapeutic benefits of an oral vitamin B1 derivative for human T lymphotropic virus type I-associated myelopathy/tropical spastic paraparesis (HAM/TSP) - PubMed

Prosultiamine, a vitamin B1 derivative, has long been used for beriberi neuropathy and Wernicke's encephalopathy. Based on the finding that prosultiamine induces apoptosis in human T lymphotropic virus type I (HTLV-I)-infected T cells, Nakamura et al. conducted a clinical trial of prosultiamine...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Disulfide-mediated apoptosis of human T-lymphotrophc virus type-I (HTLV-I)-infected cells in patients with HTLV-I-associated myelopathy/tropical spastic paraparesis - PubMed

Our results suggest that prosultiamine has the potential to be a new therapeutic tool that targets HTLV-I-infected cells in HAM/TSP.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The attempted enrichment of beer with thiamine alkyl disulphides - PubMed

The Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, commonplace in Australia, might be prevented by the enrichment of alcoholic beverages with thiamine. The use of the well absorbed thiamine alkyl disulphides for the enrichment of the most relevant Australian beverage, namely beer, is examined. A liquid...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Oral treatment of polioencephalomalacia and subclinical thiamine deficiency with thiamine propyl disulphide and thiamine hydrochloride - PubMed

Thiaminase type I production by Bacillus thiaminolyticus and activity in vitro were repressed by the primary substate thiamine and by thiamine monophosphate and thiamine propyl disulphide. At thiamine concentrations of 300-3000 mumol/l production of active enzyme by B. thiaminolyticus, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hemodynamic response of the frontal cortex elicited by intravenous thiamine propyldisulphide administration - PubMed

The intravenous olfaction (IVO) test is a unique type of clinical olfactometry and is widely used in Japan. However, it is difficult to distinguish actual olfactory disturbance from feigned disturbance because the IVO test is a psychophysical test. To resolve this problem, we investigated the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AFFINITY OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE-S35 TO ORGANS - PubMed

AFFINITY OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE-S35 TO ORGANS

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

PENETRATION OF MODIFIED THIAMINE COMPOUNDS INTO ERYTHROCYTES. I. COMPARISON OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE AND THIOTHIAMINE - PubMed

PENETRATION OF MODIFIED THIAMINE COMPOUNDS INTO ERYTHROCYTES. I. COMPARISON OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE AND THIOTHIAMINE

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Measurement of urinary thiamine propyl disulfide metabolites as an index of liver function - PubMed

Thiamine propyl disulfide (TPD) was orally administered in patients with liver disease to measure the main metabolite, 2-hydroxypropyl methyl sulfone (2HPMS), in urine, for the test of liver function. The amount of urinary excretion of 2HPMS decreased in proportion to the degree of severity of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Methods of treatment of juvenile myopia. 1. Use of massive doses of thiamine propyl disulfide and thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide] - PubMed

[Methods of treatment of juvenile myopia. 1. Use of massive doses of thiamine propyl disulfide and thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[INTESTINAL ABSORPTION OF THIAMINE PROPYLDISULFIDE (TPS) STUDIED "IN VIVO" IN THE RAT] - PubMed

[INTESTINAL ABSORPTION OF THIAMINE PROPYLDISULFIDE (TPS) STUDIED "IN VIVO" IN THE RAT]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Preparation of thiamine derivative-protein complexes] - PubMed

The formation of a thiamine -- egg albumin complex through the action of thiamine propylidsulphide on native, heat denatured and iodine oxidized albumin was studied. The reaction was carried out at pH 6 to 10, temperature 20 degrees to 45 degrees C, and with varying proportions of substrates in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Determination of urinary metabolites of thiamine propyl disulfide in humans - PubMed

Gas chromatographic procedure for the quantitative determination of methyl propyl sulfone (MPS), 2-hydroxypropyl methyl sulfone (2HPMS) and 3-hydroxypropyl methyl sulfone (3HPMS) in urine was developed. By using this procedure, the urinary excretion of MPS, 2HPMS and 3HPMS after oral dose of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effectiveness of alinamin for streptomycin poisoned children - PubMed

Effectiveness of alinamin for streptomycin poisoned children

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

AFFINITY OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE-S35 TO BLOOD - PubMed

AFFINITY OF THIAMINE PROPYL DISULFIDE-S35 TO BLOOD

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Altered thiamine propyl disulfide metabolism in rats with liver injury induced by carbon tetrachloride and D-galactosamine - PubMed

Altered thiamine propyl disulfide metabolism in rats with liver injury induced by carbon tetrachloride and D-galactosamine

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Decreased urinary excretion of thiamine propyl disulfide metabolites in patients with liver disease - PubMed

Decreased urinary excretion of thiamine propyl disulfide metabolites in patients with liver disease

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[Effect of Contol on nocturnal enuresis: especially combined therapy of Contol and Alinamin] - PubMed

[Effect of Contol on nocturnal enuresis: especially combined therapy of Contol and Alinamin]

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Haidut,
Any chance of switching out an unopened (old) Energin for a new one with prosultiamine? I think I bought this one about 2-3 months ago but have not used it yet.
Thanks in advance for your consideration-

 

[Advocate2021]

Haidut,
Any chance of switching out an unopened (old) Energin for a new one with prosultiamine? I think I bought this one about 2-3 months ago but have not used it yet.
Thanks in advance for your consideration-

OMG- thats what it is. ive noticed since using the new energin i smell like garlic - and full disclosure- vaginally mainly! i was wondering what the heck as i dont eat garlic but that must be it!!!

 

[Lee Simeon]

OMG- thats what it is. ive noticed since using the new energin i smell like garlic - and full disclosure- vaginally mainly! i was wondering what the heck as i dont eat garlic but that must be it!!!

How long does the garlic smell last? I want to use it daily, but maybe I should take a break before important meetings.

 

[Advocate2021]

How long does the garlic smell last? I want to use it daily, but maybe I should take a break before important meetings.

i didnt do energin today and not smelling it so seems to happen i suppose within a 24 hour period and as i said for me it coming out through vagina- dont think in my breath but maybe through my pores a little. so funny as i knew i wasnt crazy and now its confirmed!!

 

[Advocate2021]

Still curious if there is any chance idealabs would come out with single b vitamins like thiamine and niacinamide that many here supplement in isolation as well. much discussion elsewhere about the potential toxicity of other companies so why not have the most pure we can if possible. otherwise what are reliable thiamine, niacinamide, riboflavin, etc sources for those who ascribe benefits to supplementing these at times?

 

[exile]

Still curious if there is any chance idealabs would come out with single b vitamins like thiamine and niacinamide that many here supplement in isolation as well. much discussion elsewhere about the potential toxicity of other companies so why not have the most pure we can if possible. otherwise what are reliable thiamine, niacinamide, riboflavin, etc sources for those who ascribe benefits to supplementing these at times?

Lifegiving store sells some b vitamins isolated. I have used and they have seem good. I haven’t noticed any issues using them (thiamine and niacinamide).

 

[Advocate2021]

Lifegiving store sells some b vitamins isolated. I have used and they have seem good. I haven’t noticed any issues using them (thiamine and niacinamide).

Thank you!

 

[mrsuomi]

Wtf, why does energin now come in a plastic bottle? Alcohol and plastic makes xenoestrogens concentrate

 

[dukesbobby777]

Wtf, why does energin now come in a plastic bottle? Alcohol and plastic makes xenoestrogens concentrate

All of the products they sell are in plastic bottles. Energin has always been sold in a plastic bottle.

I hear what you're saying, though. I think he was asked this question a few years back but i cannot remember the answer he gave (someone was asking him if he could switch to glass bottles).

 

[sunny]

"LDPE bottles, which we tested for leeching and the tests came back negative even though we kept DMSO/ethanol liquid in them for months. "
Lab Analysis Of IdeaLabs Supplements And Bottles

 

[mrsuomi]

Yes of course it came back negative when they tested for bpa and not monomer ethylene which is what ldpe plastic is made of, like wtf?

"LDPE bottles, which we tested for leeching and the tests came back negative even though we kept DMSO/ethanol liquid in them for months. "
Lab Analysis Of IdeaLabs Supplements And Bottles

 

[Mitchell777]

Hello Georgi @haidut

Is there any reason why you chose Prosultiamine instead of Allitiamine? I can seem to find more research on the latter? Not that I don’t think Prosultiamine isn’t effective, I just wondered why you opted for that instead of the more well known Allitiamine.

Thank you

 

[Jamsey]

Hello Georgi @haidut

Is there any reason why you chose Prosultiamine instead of Allitiamine? I can seem to find more research on the latter? Not that I don’t think Prosultiamine isn’t effective, I just wondered why you opted for that instead of the more well known Allitiamine.

Thank you

Pretty sure he mentioned somewhere that allithiamine was too difficult to dissolve in significant amounts

 

[Metabolism_Red]

i think you should still offer a version with thiamine since the oral application to my rat was much easier as the taste was not so off-putting.

My rat enjoyed energin much more when he could swish it around his mouth and then swallow it, rather now he has to take it in gelatin capsules because of the overwhelming garlic taste.