Proteolytic Enzymes As Medicine

[Kray]

Do you know if the issues you experienced are common with others using proteolytic enzymes, specifically Serrapeptase?

 

[yerrag]

Do you know if the issues you experienced are common with others using proteolytic enzymes, specifically Serrapeptase?

I wouldn't know but it's probable. I only observe these because I have ready and affordable access to blood tests that I take advantage of. And I keep a log of self-tests I take, so I can observe patterns. I don't know if other people here take the time nor have the inclination to do these, and blood tests for most of the people in the forum are not done as often because of cost and health insurance reasons.

 

[Kray]

Do you know of another, perhaps safer, way to lower fibrin if taking enzymes is not best approach, using diet or supplements?

 

[yerrag]

Do you know of another, perhaps safer, way to lower fibrin if taking enzymes is not best approach, using diet or supplements?

If it's about fibrin in plaque, I think a gentle lysing would mitigate any possible large auto-immune response in case immune complexes are released. Not everyone will have immune complexes in plaque like I do as I had 15+ years of latent periodontal infection and the over the years the immune complexes had accumulated in plaque. I suspect it's not just the bacteria but an altered immune reaction to bacteria that made the creation and retention of immune complexes possible as a result of vaccination. I had to take a round of vaccines before I could get my US citizenship.

If the fibrin is in the blood, improving your zeta potential would be helpful to keep the fibrin from contributing to thickening and agglomeration and settling in the blood. Search zeta potential in the forum in case you're not familiar with it.

 

[Kray]

Thanks for the tip on further research. Is it best to start with a low-dose serrapeptase in the beginning, say 40,000, and work up if indicated? How long would you say it takes for effects of serrapeptase to kick in? Also, would taking lysine 500mg concurrent with serrapeptase be an issue, AFAYK?

Thanks-

 

[yerrag]

Thanks for the tip on further research. Is it best to start with a low-dose serrapeptase in the beginning, say 40,000, and work up if indicated? How long would you say it takes for effects of serrapeptase to kick in? Also, would taking lysine 500mg concurrent with serrapeptase be an issue, AFAYK?

Thanks-

I think it's best to start low, and not even have to work up to a high dose so that a gentle lysing can be effected. Slow but sure is better than fast and stressful, especially when you never know if plaques can come off too quickly and cause some vessels to be blocked by debris. I was cognizant of this when I was using ZymEssence, but couldn't resist one day going 3 x 120k of serrapeptidase. But I did it only for one day, because I was afraid it may bring long term harm. Sure enough, apart from my wbc going up shortly after using that, I would 6 months later take an ECG, and the ECG would reveal that I had "an old inferior wall myocardial infarction," which I took to mean a heart attack, although I never felt it. The only thing I can associate with the heart attack would be my high dosing of serrapteptidase. I could never be sure, but it would be a reminder for me to use gentle and slow methods when I perceive some risk involved.

I don't know about lysine. What are you using it for?

 

[yerrag]

Thanks for the tip on further research. Is it best to start with a low-dose serrapeptase in the beginning, say 40,000, and work up if indicated? How long would you say it takes for effects of serrapeptase to kick in? Also, would taking lysine 500mg concurrent with serrapeptase be an issue, AFAYK?

Thanks-

I think it's best to start low, and not even have to work up to a high dose so that a gentle lysing can be effected. Slow but sure is better than fast and stressful, especially when you never know if plaques can come off too quickly and cause some vessels to be blocked by debris. I was cognizant of this when I was using ZymEssence, but couldn't resist one day going 3 x 120k of serrapeptidase. But I did it only for one day, because I was afraid it may bring long term harm. Sure enough, apart from my wbc going up shortly after using that, I would 6 months later take an ECG, and the ECG would reveal that I had "an old inferior wall myocardial infarction," which I took to mean a heart attack, although I never felt it. The only thing I can associate with the heart attack would be my high dosing of serrapteptidase. I could never be sure, but it would be a reminder for me to use gentle and slow methods when I perceive some risk involved.

I don't know about lysine. What are you using it for?

 

[Kray]

I had considered higher dose but chose the 40,000 for starters, have only been taking 1 a day, nighttime. Glad I started slow, thanks for the advice!

Lysine with vitamin C is attributed to Linus Pauling. I also had (have?) a high Lp(a) level, and I think the lysine isn't a bad thing to incorporate for heart health, although the debate seems to continue over whether dietary means can lower Lp(a) since it is considered to be a genetic factor. I usually take 500mg/day.

PaulingTherapy.com - Reversing Heart Disease w/o Drugs is Possible

From our discussion, I plan to revisit Lp(a) and see if there is any mention of enzymes as therapeutic. However, I seem to recall one doctor saying it's not enzyme-affected, so he believes RNA therapy is the way. Not so sure I want to go down that path. The practitioner below (physiologist) suggests natural alternatives, FWIW.

high lpa - Yahoo Video Search Results

Thank you again for all your time! I wish you the best of health.

 

[yerrag]

I had considered higher dose but chose the 40,000 for starters, have only been taking 1 a day, nighttime. Glad I started slow, thanks for the advice!

Lysine with vitamin C is attributed to Linus Pauling. I also had (have?) a high Lp(a) level, and I think the lysine isn't a bad thing to incorporate for heart health, although the debate seems to continue over whether dietary means can lower Lp(a) since it is considered to be a genetic factor. I usually take 500mg/day.

PaulingTherapy.com - Reversing Heart Disease w/o Drugs is Possible

From our discussion, I plan to revisit Lp(a) and see if there is any mention of enzymes as therapeutic. However, I seem to recall one doctor saying it's not enzyme-affected, so he believes RNA therapy is the way. Not so sure I want to go down that path. The practitioner below (physiologist) suggests natural alternatives, FWIW.

high lpa - Yahoo Video Search Results

Thank you again for all your time! I wish you the best of health.

Thanks likewise for bringing up Lp(a). I have come across it before but the Yahoo search you linked to gave me a clearer idea of what it's about. Perhaps I should use Yahoo search as it's been a long time I've used it, and that was before Google search started. Now that I hate Google search so much, I should go back to using Yahoo and see if can give me more relevant results.

As for Lysine and Vitamin C, I'd have to go back to using it. I was taking a lower dosage of lysine before though, although I really had no good idea how much I should be taking. And because haidut says lysine is estrogenic, there is a fear of using it in this forum, and that could have affected me dosage choice. But I have now started to dial back on those fears, as I think that there's a big phobia around here about anything that raises estrogen levels. I think that if we have a good metabolism, a little estrogen from here and there shouldn't upset the balance in our body.

As for your serrapeptidase dosage, perhaps you could be able to increase from 1 40k spu capsule per day to 3 capsules slowly. I was taking 120k spu x 3 per day, and I felt that was way too high.

 

[Lollipop2]

because haidut says lysine is estrogenic, there is a fear of using it in this forum, and that could have affected me dosage choice. But I have now started to dial back on those fears, as I think that there's a big phobia around here about anything that raises estrogen levels.

I think the problem with lysine is supposedly downstream it converts to carnitine, which is not great. Long ago someone posted a chart showing how it converted. I don’t remember where to even search for that on the forum. I must admit, I use it occasionally along with Aspirin and milk to drastically cut estrogen and serotonin. It works. Milk has a lot of lysine so I take it with milk to sort of enhance the lysine in milk. Taking it this way, I have never experienced bad results. I also do not take daily, only occasionally so I imagine it to be relatively safe.

 

[yerrag]

I think the problem with lysine is supposedly downstream it converts to carnitine, which is not great.

I had that fear of carnitine as well, given that it is needed to make long chain fatty acids more easily metabolized. And with what I consider to be unfounded fears of anything that has to do with fatty acid metabolism, carnitine is looked at in a bad way.

But a healthy metabolism that allows for oxidative phosphorylation does not mean everything that is metabolized has to be sugar. In fact, when there is great sugar regulation that is always associated with a healthy oxidative metabolism, insulin does not have to be secreted. And since insulin inhibits lipolysis, not having insulin means that the body will have a constant supply of fatty acids from lipolysis, and that these fatty acids are metabolized by fatty acid oxidation. This is the body's way of using its available energy sources optimally, since it wants to conserve its sugar stores for the tissues that have to use glucose solely for energy, such as the brain and the red blood cells.

It makes sense because people who are not overweight nor obese are that way because they not only burn sugar well, but also burn fat well, and this is not done in a way where the two metabolic pathways interfere with each other.

Thanks for the tip on taking lysine along with milk. An excellent idea!

 

[Kray]

I remember reading about Lp(a) having a "bright" side many years ago, if you can believe it with all the scary stuff out there. This is kind of interesting, fwiw.
Lipoprotein (a) / Lp(a) - @DavidT76 - Heart disease - 20150407 - Inspire

I had hoped to find links to Lp(a) and serrapeptase but didn't really find anything. Would think it would be all over the place if it had shown itself to be valuable in lowering Lp(a)?

What to make of any or all of these therapies for Lp(a), and possible drawbacks from too much intervention?

 

[yerrag]

I remember reading about Lp(a) having a "bright" side many years ago, if you can believe it with all the scary stuff out there. This is kind of interesting, fwiw.
Lipoprotein (a) / Lp(a) - @DavidT76 - Heart disease - 20150407 - Inspire

I had hoped to find links to Lp(a) and serrapeptase but didn't really find anything. Would think it would be all over the place if it had shown itself to be valuable in lowering Lp(a)?

What to make of any or all of these therapies for Lp(a), and possible drawbacks from too much intervention?

I'm not sure myself. I have to revisit this area - vitamin C and lysine, and proline etc. But I may only come back to it after I pursue other approaches to my hypertension, as I think the kidneys and not the blood vessels are more central to my condition, even though they are intertwined.

 

[Kray]

I'm not sure myself. I have to revisit this area - vitamin C and lysine, and proline etc. But I may only come back to it after I pursue other approaches to my hypertension, as I think the kidneys and not the blood vessels are more central to my condition, even though they are intertwined.

Understood. Thanks for suggestions on serrapeptase dosing. I think I'll take a rest from that for now, revisit later as needed. Keep it simple. Eat to live. We have a good start here, and we are very blessed to have nutritional insights that still many people aren't aware of (thanks to government and big pharma, et al), imho. Maybe current healthscare crisis is a silver lining in that regard.

btw- I found it ironic in the link I sent you about "butter and coconut oil" being thought to lower Lp(a)! Why doubt?

 

[md_a]

@Blossom @haidut @burtlancast
All of you,
R Peat analyzes the problem of clotting / bleeding and its relation to health. He explains the role of fibrin / fibrinogen in the genesis of degenerative diseases;
and also the utility or function of co2 [bag], the danger of unsaturated oils etc, and also the beneficial role of aspirin.

My question: given that aspirin will act on coagulation system, for instance, reducing fibrinogen, couldn´t we include proteolytic enzymes to help to reduce fibrinogen?
proteolytic enzymes can destroy fibrinogen / fibrin, don´t they?

Please tell me in what article Ray Peat wrote about the role of fibrin / fibrinogen. I searched and I can't find it. Thank you!

 

[Kray]

Here are two where he mentions same-

Bleeding, clotting, cancer
Multiple sclerosis, protein, fats, and progesterone

 

[Kray]

I'd still like to use these enzymes but for the immune complex issue. What I've noticed using these enzymes is that my spO2 level went down to 96-97-98, instead of being in the 99 level. The lysing of plaque may have allowed more tissue oxygenation, and that's why I'm seeing better oxygen saturation numbers (the lower the better to an extent).

@yerrag- revisiting Serrapeptase again. On a recommendation from a health practitioner for organ/artery cleanse and inflammation, 250,000 per day for 90 days, is this a reasonable dose for this period of time? Thank you.

 

[golder]

@yerrag- revisiting Serrapeptase again. On a recommendation from a health practitioner for organ/artery cleanse and inflammation, 250,000 per day for 90 days, is this a reasonable dose for this period of time? Thank you.

Interesting, is 250,000 of Serrapeptase a lot more than a typical Proteolytic Enzyme capsule?

 

[Kray]

Interesting, is 250,000 of Serrapeptase a lot more than a typical Proteolytic Enzyme capsule?

Depends on brand. This is one that is 250,000, recommended by a health practitioner.

SERRAPEPTASE 250,000iu (365 enteric coated tabs) HIGH ABSORPTION FIGHT INFECTIO | eBay

Serrapeptase is sometimes referred to as Serratiopeptidase.This donation from Mother Nature is a unique enzyme and dates back to the 1960s when it was first identified in the digestive system of the silkworm - it is so powerful that the silkworm produces and uses this enzyme to dissolve their...

www.ebay.com

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag- revisiting Serrapeptase again. On a recommendation from a health practitioner for organ/artery cleanse and inflammation, 250,000 per day for 90 days, is this a reasonable dose for this period of time? Thank you.

That is a very strong dose.I took just one capsule at 120k SPU per capsule. 3 days later, my CBC results came up with wbc jumping to 11 from 7 a week prior. I was glad I just took one, as my intuition was telling me to be careful.

I thought it won't hurt to be cautious, and I could monitor my CBC as it doesn't cost much to take one. Normally, I wouldn't have noticed as I didn't feel bad or anything from it.

I can't blame your practitioner because you can't ever hear of the downsides of taking high doses of proteolytic enzymes. In fact, the prevailing attitude is the stronger the dose the better, as "fhere is no side effect.“