Protein Powders, Glutamic Acid, MSG, Etc

[narouz]

I've been considering doing natedawggh's liver fixing program...
https://raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7353
...well...using at least certain parts of it.

One of his big things is the use of a lot of protein powder,
and his fave seems to be Naked Casein.

I don't know much about protein powders.
Peat doesn't seem to much like protein powders or the use of isolated aminos for that matter.
I've gone beyond Peat's frame of recommendation for a while now though,
doing some of haidut's isolated aminos, etc.
I have trouble getting down the high levels of protein natedawggh recommends
(and Peat, for that matter)
especially towards the end of healing our livers.
So...I've been toying with the idea of using a good protein powder as a supplement to my regular Peatian sources.

One thing that kinda surprised me as I poked my head into the world of protein powders
is that the glutamic acid levels struck me as very high.
And glutamic acid is, as far as I understand chemically--and my chemistry is very bad indeed--
glutamic acid is MSG.
And we know that Peat doesn't like MSG, as it is an excitotoxin (for one thing).

But...as I've started looking further into this,
I noticed that even in mothers' milk
the glutamic acid level is also very high.
For some reason the file will not load up here,
but check out this link if you like:
https://www.ajinomoto.com/features/amino/lets/more/

And then perusing other milks,
I also saw that the glutamic acid percentage is very high.
Well damn...new computer...for some reason I can't add these graphs as inline attachments as I've done in the past.
Anyhoo...check out this link for a graph
showing amino acid profiles comparing cow, goat, and camel milks.
You'll need to scroll down a bit:
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ijds.2007.226.234

So...glutamic acid would seem to be high in all milks.
And Peat loves milk, of course, so...wtf

Well, I ran across this article.
It is from a vendor of some kind of protein powder I think,
so...read critically...but...
the idea in the article is that MSG is different from the glutamic acid found in high levels in all milks,
and possibly different also from the glutamic acid found in high levels in all (or most anyhow) protein powders.
Well...maybe I should say the glutamic acid found in milk and consumed as milk
acts differently in the body
than MSG the excitotoxic food additive.
Here's the article.
http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=ijds.2007.226.234

What is MSG?
Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer and preservative commonly added to canned foods, Chinese food and other processed food products. MSG has been associated with negative health effects, though the research regarding these effects is still inconclusive.

Chemically, MSG is a sodium salt is combined with glutamate. Glutamate is found naturally in dietary protein sources (e.g. meat, fish, cheese and even veggies like tomatoes), but it can also be made in the body from glutamic acid (which is found in all dietary proteins). Glutamate is essential for proper metabolism, digestive tract, and brain function.

How is MSG made?
MSG is not made inside the body. It is an ingredient that is commercially manufactured mainly by using a fermentation process, although there may be other methods. They start with a carbohydrate food such as molasses, beet sugar, or corn starch, and treat it with a bacteria which turns glutamic acid into glutamate and then into MSG.

Contrary to what some believe, MSG is NOT created during the making of all protein powders. This myth stems from the idea that processing of protein breaks apart the protein into its constituent amino acids, and the “freed” glutamic acid, then acts as MSG in the body.

How are GN plant proteins made?
Growing Naturals plant proteins are produced using only water and enzymes that break apart the STARCH content (of rice and peas) only, leaving an “intact,” concentrated protein content behind. Proteases (protein-breaking enzymes) are NOT used in our process. In other words, the protein is NOT broken into its constituent amino acids, so there is no “free” glutamic. Therefore, MSG is NOT created during our process and is not present in our plant protein products. Many (but not all) rice and pea proteins are created this way.

Has GN tested for “free” glutamic acid or MSG?
Yes, third-party lab results at 0 detection for MSG confirm that there is no MSG or “free glutamic acid” in our protein powders.

Is MSG safe to consume?
To date, the role of MSG in food and its effects on health remains controversial. Many people consider themselves sensitive to MSG in food reporting symptoms like headaches, tingling or numbness after excessive intake. Other groups have blamed MSG for a series of serious neurologic and physiological disorders. On the other hand, the FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) owing to large-scale reviews by many scientific and/or federal organizations including the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations2. As of 1995, glutamates were cleared as a health risk for the majority of consumers. No large-scale clinical research has been done ever since.

References:
1. How are monosodium glutamate and the other ingredients that contain MSG manufactured? Truthinlabeling.org Available at: http://www.truthinlabeling.org/HowIsItManufactured.html
2. Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG). U.S. Food and Drug Administration. 2012. Available at: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPack ... 328728.htm

So...the authors' argument would seem to be
that all glutamic acid is not the same.
I would have to think the glutamic acid in the very Peat-approved dairy we all consume is safe.
What, then, about the safety of the glutamic acid in protein powders?
Well...I'm going to have to research this more,
but the article above argues that some protein powders contain glutamic acid which is safe,
and some protein powders contain glutamic acid which is not safe.
As I say, I will have to explore this more.
I just wanted to get this far, as a starting point,
and perhaps others can add their thought--including, hopefully, natedawggh.

I did want to add some charts of the amino profiles in natedawggh's preferred protein powder,
Naked Casein,
and also the profiles of that same company's Naked Pea and Naked Goat.
Dang it!
Can't attach the picture inline for anything!
Here are the links.
You will need to click and zoom some:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBIUGA2/?tag=rapefo-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBJ377K/?tag=rapefo-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBILDQ8/?tag=rapefo-20

 

[tara]

Reminds me of reading about a Glutamate and Aspartate Reduction Diet that some people apparently find helpful. According to the promoters (I think one of the key proponents found his way to this via being a vet), precisely because glutamate and aspartate and some of their related molecules like MSG, are excito-toxic in sufficiently high doses. They recommend avoiding milk as well as wheat, soy, corn, gluten altogether, and watching quantities of high glutamate proteins.

post 101683 Naked Goat

Now you're talking. Goat stew, yum.

 

[mamaherrera]

and then we get into, how high are high doses?? I also ready a study on diet coke, that said, you'd have to drink tons and tons, like an unrealistic amount to have problems. My glutamate levels showed to be high once, so would that mean I should avoid milk/protein powders/gelatin and bone broth?? Gosh, after awhile I'll eat nothing!

 

[Dr. B]

I've been considering doing natedawggh's liver fixing program...
My RESULTS-IN-6-MONTHS Plan
...well...using at least certain parts of it.

One of his big things is the use of a lot of protein powder,
and his fave seems to be Naked Casein.

I don't know much about protein powders.
Peat doesn't seem to much like protein powders or the use of isolated aminos for that matter.
I've gone beyond Peat's frame of recommendation for a while now though,
doing some of haidut's isolated aminos, etc.
I have trouble getting down the high levels of protein natedawggh recommends
(and Peat, for that matter)
especially towards the end of healing our livers.
So...I've been toying with the idea of using a good protein powder as a supplement to my regular Peatian sources.

One thing that kinda surprised me as I poked my head into the world of protein powders
is that the glutamic acid levels struck me as very high.
And glutamic acid is, as far as I understand chemically--and my chemistry is very bad indeed--
glutamic acid is MSG.
And we know that Peat doesn't like MSG, as it is an excitotoxin (for one thing).

But...as I've started looking further into this,
I noticed that even in mothers' milk
the glutamic acid level is also very high.
For some reason the file will not load up here,
but check out this link if you like:
Amino Acids | Ajinomoto Group Global Website - Eat Well, Live Well.

And then perusing other milks,
I also saw that the glutamic acid percentage is very high.
Well damn...new computer...for some reason I can't add these graphs as inline attachments as I've done in the past.
Anyhoo...check out this link for a graph
showing amino acid profiles comparing cow, goat, and camel milks.
You'll need to scroll down a bit:
Changes in Amino Acids Profile of Camel Milk Protein During the Early Lactation

So...glutamic acid would seem to be high in all milks.
And Peat loves milk, of course, so...wtf

Well, I ran across this article.
It is from a vendor of some kind of protein powder I think,
so...read critically...but...
the idea in the article is that MSG is different from the glutamic acid found in high levels in all milks,
and possibly different also from the glutamic acid found in high levels in all (or most anyhow) protein powders.
Well...maybe I should say the glutamic acid found in milk and consumed as milk
acts differently in the body
than MSG the excitotoxic food additive.
Here's the article.
Changes in Amino Acids Profile of Camel Milk Protein During the Early Lactation

What is MSG?
Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer and preservative commonly added to canned foods, Chinese food and other processed food products. MSG has been associated with negative health effects, though the research regarding these effects is still inconclusive.

Chemically, MSG is a sodium salt is combined with glutamate. Glutamate is found naturally in dietary protein sources (e.g. meat, fish, cheese and even veggies like tomatoes), but it can also be made in the body from glutamic acid (which is found in all dietary proteins). Glutamate is essential for proper metabolism, digestive tract, and brain function.

How is MSG made?
MSG is not made inside the body. It is an ingredient that is commercially manufactured mainly by using a fermentation process, although there may be other methods. They start with a carbohydrate food such as molasses, beet sugar, or corn starch, and treat it with a bacteria which turns glutamic acid into glutamate and then into MSG.

Contrary to what some believe, MSG is NOT created during the making of all protein powders. This myth stems from the idea that processing of protein breaks apart the protein into its constituent amino acids, and the “freed” glutamic acid, then acts as MSG in the body.

How are GN plant proteins made?
Growing Naturals plant proteins are produced using only water and enzymes that break apart the STARCH content (of rice and peas) only, leaving an “intact,” concentrated protein content behind. Proteases (protein-breaking enzymes) are NOT used in our process. In other words, the protein is NOT broken into its constituent amino acids, so there is no “free” glutamic. Therefore, MSG is NOT created during our process and is not present in our plant protein products. Many (but not all) rice and pea proteins are created this way.

Has GN tested for “free” glutamic acid or MSG?
Yes, third-party lab results at 0 detection for MSG confirm that there is no MSG or “free glutamic acid” in our protein powders.

Is MSG safe to consume?
To date, the role of MSG in food and its effects on health remains controversial. Many people consider themselves sensitive to MSG in food reporting symptoms like headaches, tingling or numbness after excessive intake. Other groups have blamed MSG for a series of serious neurologic and physiological disorders. On the other hand, the FDA considers the addition of MSG to foods to be “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) owing to large-scale reviews by many scientific and/or federal organizations including the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations2. As of 1995, glutamates were cleared as a health risk for the majority of consumers. No large-scale clinical research has been done ever since.

References:
1. How are monosodium glutamate and the other ingredients that contain MSG manufactured? Truthinlabeling.org Available at: http://www.truthinlabeling.org/HowIsItManufactured.html
2. Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG). U.S. Food and Drug Administration. 2012. Available at: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPack ... 328728.htm

So...the authors' argument would seem to be
that all glutamic acid is not the same.
I would have to think the glutamic acid in the very Peat-approved dairy we all consume is safe.
What, then, about the safety of the glutamic acid in protein powders?
Well...I'm going to have to research this more,
but the article above argues that some protein powders contain glutamic acid which is safe,
and some protein powders contain glutamic acid which is not safe.
As I say, I will have to explore this more.
I just wanted to get this far, as a starting point,
and perhaps others can add their thought--including, hopefully, natedawggh.

I did want to add some charts of the amino profiles in natedawggh's preferred protein powder,
Naked Casein,
and also the profiles of that same company's Naked Pea and Naked Goat.
Dang it!
Can't attach the picture inline for anything!
Here are the links.
You will need to click and zoom some:

Amazon product ASIN B00NBIUGA2View: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBIUGA2/?tag=rapefo-20


Amazon product ASIN B00NBJ377KView: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBJ377K/?tag=rapefo-20


Amazon product ASIN B00NBILDQ8View: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NBILDQ8/?tag=rapefo-20

Glutamine/glutamic acid is considered an essential amono acid and its in all the animal protein sources i think. Not just milk, but also eggs meat etc.

MSG as the food additive was used as a flavor enhancer and i think some said it raises appetite too or something? So some restaurants used it to try to get people to buy more food and eat more? Anyway MSG as the additive is essentially lab made glutamic acid… no guarantee it has the same effects as natural glutamic acid found in milk or meat proteins. The amino acids also counteract each other or work synergistically with others, like vitamins etc so the issue with MSG could be the imbalance it creates when used as a supplement.

Whey or casein powders should only have the same glutamine thats in the whey or casein in milk normally… unless theres some sort of scam going on where are companies are adding actual synthetic glutamine powder and selling it as whey protein?