Proper Dosage For ABI 12W Deep Red 660nm LED

[x-ray peat]

I know many people are using the https://www.amazon.com/ABI-Booster-Flowering-Spectrum-Enhancement/dp/B01H2Y5U4M for red light therapy and like me have been guessing at what the right dosage is since they don't tell you the power density.
I just found this in the Amazon Q&A
"It produces approximately 250W/M2 @1 foot. [25mW/cm2 @1 foot] Measurement was with a standard irradiance meter [TES 1333 Solar Power Meter], at 12". "

so if you want a typical dose of 6j/cm2 then you would use the light for 4 minutes at 12" distance

power density (mW/cm2) x time (seconds)/1000= dose (J/cm2)

I was definitely overdosing it and would get a weird feeling in my head.

 

[x-ray peat]

If anyone is still with me, I just noticed this chart on the amazon page and an "answer" on how to use it.

"A chart of µmol/m²/s is shown on the 12W bulb. To convert 660nm light from µmol/m²/s to mW/cm² multiply by 0.0181. The total irradiance of the 25W bulb is a little less than double that of the 12W bulb. At what height do you want to know the value?"

So at 12" the center of the beam gives off 1480 µmol/m²/s. Multiply that by .0181 and you get 26.8 mW/cm², about the same number as above. This chart will let you figure out the correct dose for a variety of distances.

end of geeking out

 

[lollipop]

Great thread. Following.

 

[Tzheng2012]

Hah i actually asked that question. He then gave the power density at 10cm.

"The 12W bulb provides 120mW/cm² at 10cm directly below the bulb. The 25W bulb provides 142mW/cm² at 10cm directly below the bulb. The 25W bulb has a 60-degree beam angle compared to the 30-degree beam angle of the 12W bulb, so the light covers a wider area. This is based on actual measurements with a light meter."

So im a bit confused myself because if using the picture of umols, to calculate power density at 6" or 15cm you take 2856 and multiply by .0181 to get mw/cm^2. But that would only be 50mw/cm^2, which doesnt seem right for 5cm further. I think his formula must be incorrect because when he used a light meter he got 140 for 10cm.

 

[x-ray peat]

Hah i actually asked that question. He then gave the power density at 10cm.

"The 12W bulb provides 120mW/cm² at 10cm directly below the bulb. The 25W bulb provides 142mW/cm² at 10cm directly below the bulb. The 25W bulb has a 60-degree beam angle compared to the 30-degree beam angle of the 12W bulb, so the light covers a wider area. This is based on actual measurements with a light meter."

So im a bit confused myself because if using the picture of umols, to calculate power density at 6" or 15cm you take 2856 and multiply by .0181 to get mw/cm^2. But that would only be 50mw/cm^2, which doesnt seem right for 5cm further. I think his formula must be incorrect because when he used a light meter he got 140 for 10cm.

I would go with the chart as it comes from the manufacturer. Also it matched up with what was given in my first post. I think that some of the cheaper ligt meters could be off by a lot so its not surprising that someone gave you a strange number.

 

[Tzheng2012]

Oh i missed where you mentioned a person tested the power density with his light meter. I guess the calculations were correct.

The guy i spoke with was the seller, who seems to have his own website for LEDs as well as selling on amazon so i assume his light meter wouldnt be too far off. Thinking about it, i can kinda understand why from 10cm to 15cm (6") there would be such a disparity in power. If you look at Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man you can see that from 0-20 cm, every 5 cm theres almost a half in power. This is with his strong box design lights. So with bulbs it makes sense for even more power to be cut for every 5cm within the first 20cm or so because theres no magnifying glass like with the rlm boxes. Then from 20cm on i assume the light basically diffuses to an equilibrium so every 5cm theresfter is only slightly less than before.

 

[x-ray peat]

Oh i missed where you mentioned a person tested the power density with his light meter. I guess the calculations were correct.

The guy i spoke with was the seller, who seems to have his own website for LEDs as well as selling on amazon so i assume his light meter wouldnt be too far off. Thinking about it, i can kinda understand why from 10cm to 15cm (6") there would be such a disparity in power. If you look at Complete guide to light therapy dosing - Red Light Man you can see that from 0-20 cm, every 5 cm theres almost a half in power. This is with his strong box design lights. So with bulbs it makes sense for even more power to be cut for every 5cm within the first 20cm or so because theres no magnifying glass like with the rlm boxes. Then from 20cm on i assume the light basically diffuses to an equilibrium so every 5cm theresfter is only slightly less than before.

Yes I think you're right. If you use the inverse square law at 15cm and apply it to the 140 at 10 cm you get 140*(10^2/15^2 ) =62. close enough to 50

 

[Luckytype]

I have the 25w version and im using it at 0-10cm away(for times sake).

According to everything from the manufacturer and going by redlightman formula and also the chart, for every 7 seconds this light is applied that is 1 j/cm2.

.142 x time(in sec)


By that calculation im looking more than 40 min for middle of the road thyroid session of 350 j. I feel like im missing something...this cant be correct @x-ray peat ?

 

[x-ray peat]

I have the 25w version and im using it at 0-10cm away(for times sake).

According to everything from the manufacturer and going by redlightman formula and also the chart, for every 7 seconds this light is applied that is 1 j/cm2.

.142 x time(in sec)


By that calculation im looking more than 40 min for middle of the road thyroid session of 350 j. I feel like im missing something...this cant be correct @x-ray peat ?

Im certainly no expert in this but just fumbling along with the formulas and chart above, here is my best guess. The seller says that the 25w is almost twice the output of the 12w so lets assume its double.
6" is the shortest distance on the chart so I would use that (using zero would be just guessing)
at 6" the ppfd is 2856 for a 12w and 5712 for your 25w
using this formula [ seconds = (J/cm²) / (mW/cm²)x1000] and a target dose of 6 J/cm2
I get 1.0 minute. 40 minutes would make for an interesting experiment but I don't think you would like the results.

ppfd from chart 5712
irradiance 103.3 mW/cm2
dose 6 J/cm2
time sec 58.03
minutes 1.0

 

[biggirlkisss]

I doubt it that bright if it 20 watt. It could be comparable to a 100 watt incandescence roughly

 

[ddjd]

Is this available in the UK?

 

[x-ray peat]

I doubt it that bright if it 20 watt. It could be comparable to a 100 watt incandescence roughly

brightness or lumens is a more appropriate measure for white light and not so much for red light or IR. For example an IR bulb can be barely visible and still give off a very high irradiance.

 

[Luckytype]

Im certainly no expert in this but just fumbling along with the formulas and chart above, here is my best guess. The seller says that the 25w is almost twice the output of the 12w so lets assume its double.
6" is the shortest distance on the chart so I would use that (using zero would be just guessing)
at 6" the ppfd is 2856 for a 12w and 5712 for your 25w
using this formula [ seconds = (J/cm²) / (mW/cm²)x1000] and a target dose of 6 J/cm2
I get 1.0 minute. 40 minutes would make for an interesting experiment but I don't think you would like the results.

ppfd from chart 5712
irradiance 103.3 mW/cm2
dose 6 J/cm2
time sec 58.03
minutes 1.0

@x-ray peat going by what @Tzheng2012 got from the manufacturer the output appears to be 142mW for the 25w bulb. Would this be the same?

 

[x-ray peat]

@x-ray peat going by what @Tzheng2012 got from the manufacturer the output appears to be 142mW for the 25w bulb. Would this be the same?

yes for 10 cm (which is 4 inches) 142mW/cm2 seems about right. I assumed 103.3 mW/cm2 for 6".

 

[seetheredlight]

Hello, I have the 12W and I went with the cautious approach when using it.

30 seconds from 10 cm away for each area (few times a week). Have not been doing this that long and have not seen any real benefits. Areas I have tried are scrotum, face, neck, and head.

Recently when I did this cautious approach, I had weird side effects. It felt like overexposure to EMFs. A tingling, burning, and itching sensation all over my head. This has lasted for 5 days now. Also, redness on face/scrotum and blurry eyes later on (I use tanning goggles). Redness not as bad now and no blurry eyes as of late.

Anyone else experience any kind of side effects? Or can anyone recommend approaches to limit EMF exposure or redness when using your light? Thanks.

I already gave up on my IR CCTV. Hope I don't have to give up on my LED.

 

[biggirlkisss]

incandent produce the least emf then led. But incandence produce a tiny amount of uva but so small it not a concern I think.

 

[x-ray peat]

Hello, I have the 12W and I went with the cautious approach when using it.

30 seconds from 10 cm away for each area (few times a week). Have not been doing this that long and have not seen any real benefits. Areas I have tried are scrotum, face, neck, and head.

Recently when I did this cautious approach, I had weird side effects. It felt like overexposure to EMFs. A tingling, burning, and itching sensation all over my head. This has lasted for 5 days now. Also, redness on face/scrotum and blurry eyes later on (I use tanning goggles). Redness not as bad now and no blurry eyes as of late.

Anyone else experience any kind of side effects? Or can anyone recommend approaches to limit EMF exposure or redness when using your light? Thanks.

I already gave up on my IR CCTV. Hope I don't have to give up on my LED.

I have am emf meter and the LEDs give off about 1 milligauss at 0 cm (not that significant). At 10 cm it is zero. I am not sure why you are getting such a bad reaction. Ive used it at 0 cm any not had any issues like you describe

 

[seetheredlight]

Thank you for the replies.

Maybe it is the lamp I am using or how I handled it?

I have it plugged into a desk lamp similar to the Mainstays lamp from Walmart. I try to touch the neck for the most part while on, but this time I did hold the head of the lamp when shining on my head.

What does everyone plug their ABI LED into and how do they handle it?

 

[x-ray peat]

I use a corded socket with one of those clamps that I took off a breeder/heat lamp fixture.
I just read on the Amazon site that a Woman used the light a 1/2 inch from her calf for 12 minutes and got a nasty rash. Other people say they are getting good results but don't mention distance and specifics. I use it for about 2 minutes at 6 inches away for a 6 j/cm2 dose and go up to as high as 4 minutes for a 12 j/cm2 dose.

 

[seetheredlight]

What area do you use for the 6 j/cm2 dose and 12 j/cm2 dose? And how long have you used those doses to see any benefits? Thanks.