Progressive Supranuclear Palsy - PSP

[Fractality]

My father was very recently diagnosed with this and I am looking for anyone's personal experiences or research on mitigating it. My father was prescribed levidopa-carbidopa but my understanding is that PSP is less responsive to Parkinson drugs like that. I've searched this community and Peat's articles and have plenty of ideas (coconut oil, pregnenolone, thiamine, taurine, niacinamide, aspirin, lisuride, etc) but would appreciate any personal insights before experimenting. Thanks.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

My father was very recently diagnosed with this and I am looking for anyone's personal experiences or research on mitigating it. My father was prescribed levidopa-carbidopa but my understanding is that PSP is less responsive to Parkinson drugs like that. I've searched this community and Peat's articles and have plenty of ideas (coconut oil, pregnenolone, thiamine, taurine, niacinamide, aspirin, lisuride, etc) but would appreciate any personal insights before experimenting. Thanks.

PSP is yet another example of Yellow Fat Disease (progressive or cumulative lipofuscinosis).

 

[Fractality]

PSP is yet another example of Yellow Fat Disease (progressive or cumulative lipofuscinosis).

Interesting, thanks - so lipofuscin implicated again. Do you believe that a high quality vitamin e supplement might slow/halt the progression?

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Interesting, thanks - so lipofuscin implicated again. Do you believe that a high quality vitamin e supplement might slow/halt the progression?

The highest choice is to avoid the foods, additives, and supplements that cause Yellow Fat Disease. Vitamin E won't even prevent salmon from getting progressive lipofuscinosis on fish farms. That's why fish farmers almost always use a synthetic vitamin E (such as Monsanto's Ethoxyquin), which works just well enough to keep the disease from becoming obvious before slaughter. Vitamin E helps prevent Yellow Fat Disease, but, without major dietary changes, doesn't do much to remedy it.

 

[Fractality]

The highest choice is to avoid the foods, additives, and supplements that cause Yellow Fat Disease. Vitamin E won't even prevent salmon from getting progressive lipofuscinosis on fish farms. That's why fish farmers almost always use a synthetic vitamin E (such as Monsanto's Ethoxyquin), which works just well enough to keep the disease from becoming obvious before slaughter. Vitamin E helps prevent Yellow Fat Disease, but, without major dietary changes, doesn't do much to remedy it.

Okay so aside from focusing on eliminating iron/aluminum/PUFA high foods, what else could be done to help the condition? Perhaps a silicon-rich mineral water which has been shown to chelate at least aluminum from the brain.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Okay so aside from focusing on eliminating iron/aluminum/PUFA high foods, what else could be done to help the condition? Perhaps a silicon-rich mineral water which has been shown to chelate at least aluminum from the brain.

Aluminum is a minor player compared to iron and manganese. All three are rendered virtually harmless by minimizing polyunsaturated fatty acids, highly unsaturated fatty acids, lactic acid, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogens, phytoestrogens, xenoestrogens, carrageenans, etc. We don't need silver bullets to keep werewolves at bay; we just need to stay out of the woods when the Moon is full. (However, never let it be said that I discouraged someone from using supplements, since I've managed four health food stores and a supplement department in a fifth. Vitamins E, K, and niacinamide can supplement the implements Ray Peat has detailed down to the gnat's eyebrow. And don't forget oranges, a major brain matter maker.)

 

[Fractality]

Aluminum is a minor player compared to iron and manganese. All three are rendered virtually harmless by minimizing polyunsaturated fatty acids, highly unsaturated fatty acids, lactic acid, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogens, phytoestrogens, xenoestrogens, carrageenans, etc. We don't need silver bullets to keep werewolves at bay; we just need to stay out of the woods when the Moon is full. (However, never let it be said that I discouraged someone from using supplements, since I've managed four health food stores and a supplement department in a fifth. Vitamins E, K, and niacinamide can supplement the implements Ray Peat has detailed down to the gnat's eyebrow. And don't forget oranges, a major brain matter maker.)

Interesting...I've never heard of manganese as a culprit. Do you have any references for that? I would like to know since I've upped my pineapple intake in the recent months. I'm guessing @Travis will want to know too. I also don't think he would say aluminum is a minor playing after reading his posts. Minimizing exposure to toxins is critical and should come first, but there has got to be a methodology for reversing already established toxic insults.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Interesting...I've never heard of manganese as a culprit. Do you have any references for that? I would like to know since I've upped my pineapple intake in the recent months. I'm guessing @Travis will want to know too. I also don't think he would say aluminum is a minor playing after reading his posts. Minimizing exposure to toxins is critical and should come first, but there has got to be a methodology for reversing already established toxic insults.

At least pineapple is low in iron (lol). Type in dementia manganese (no quotation marks) and you'll find many references. Check out Janelle Crossgrove and Wei Zheng. Reliable protocols are sadly lacking, even among "experts," and the Placebo Effect (33%, according to the AMA) distorts the data even more. There's more than one way to skin an Age Spot. Fortunately, when toxic insults are minimized and Cognitive Shocks resolved, the same biological marvel that manufactured its trillions of cells out of a sperm and an ovum knows how to heal and regenerate itself when left to its own awesome devices.

 

[paymanz]

Manganese is essential mineral , in excess its bad.

But most people dont get minimum required level of it.

 

[Fractality]

Manganese is essential mineral , in excess its bad.

But most people dont get minimum required level of it.

How do you define excess manganese?

 

[Koveras]

[Akinetic mutism and progressive supranuclear palsy-like syndrome after the shunt of an obstructive hydrocephalus. Successful treatment with bromocriptine: 2 cases].
[Article in French]
Aidi S1, Elalaoui-Faris M, Benabdeljlil M, Benomar A, Chaoui M, Chkili T.

Two cases of obstructive hydrocephalus who suffered multiple shunt failures and shunt revisions are presented. The patients developed after the neurochirurgical treatment a clinical syndrome of akinetic mutism followed by a Progressive Supranuclear Palsy-like (PSP) syndrome. The akinetic mutism and the PSP-like syndrome were remarkably improved with bromocriptine.​

Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2017 Apr 1;320:26-31. doi: 10.1016/j.taap.2017.02.009. Epub 2017 Feb 11.
Thiamine deficiency induces endoplasmic reticulum stress and oxidative stress in human neurons derived from induced pluripotent stem cells.
Wang X1, Xu M1, Frank JA1, Ke ZJ2, Luo J3.

Thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency (TD) plays a major role in the etiology of Wernicke's encephalopathy (WE) which is a severe neurological disorder. TD induces selective neuronal cell death, neuroinflammation, endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress and oxidative stress in the brain which are commonly observed in many aging-related neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease (AD), Parkinson's disease (PD), Huntington's disease (HD) and progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP). However, the underlying cellular and molecular mechanisms remain unclear. The progress in this line of research is hindered due to the lack of appropriate in vitro models. The neurons derived for the human induced pluripotent stem cells (hiPSCs) provide a relevant and powerful tool for the research in pharmaceutical and environmental neurotoxicity. In this study, we for the first time used human induced pluripotent stem cells (hiPSCs)-derived neurons (iCell neurons) to investigate the mechanisms of TD-induced neurodegeneration. We showed that TD caused a concentration- and duration-dependent death of iCell neurons. TD induced ER stress which was evident by the increase in ER stress markers, such as GRP78, XBP-1, CHOP, ATF-6, phosphorylated eIF2α, and cleaved caspase-12. TD also triggered oxidative stress which was shown by the increase in the expression 2,4-dinitrophenyl (DNP) and 4-hydroxynonenal (HNE). ER stress inhibitors (STF-083010 and salubrinal) and antioxidant N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) were effective in alleviating TD-induced death of iCell neurons, supporting the involvement of ER stress and oxidative stress. It establishes that the iCell neurons are a novel tool to investigate cellular and molecular mechanisms for TD-induced neurodegeneration.​

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Manganese is essential mineral , in excess its bad.

But most people dont get minimum required level of it.

That's why I drink organic pineapple juice every night and minimize foods containing oxalic and phytic acids. Most manganese deficiencies are qualitative, not quantitative.

 

[paymanz]

How do you define excess manganese?

Im not sure about that ,balance studies show we need around 3.5 mg a day.

Just dont go too higher than that!

 

[paymanz]

Most manganese deficiencies are qualitative, not quantitative.

Interesting.

No one knows what happens in body when we absorb phytates and oxalates, They chelate manganese!

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Interesting.

No one knows what happens in body when we absorb phytates and oxalates, They chelate manganese!

That might be true provided manganese can make it as far as its manganese-containing metalloenzymes. Glyphosate is boiler-scaler (original patent) and is used on more non-GMO foods than GMO foods as a desiccant (another patent) and antibiotic (another patent). (Monsanto owns all four patents.) In fact, Big Ag now abounds in boiler-scaling weed and crop killers that neutralize almost every mineral in the Periodic Table of the Elements. Some chelates "crab" and ship minerals straight to the toilet (e.g., EDTA), as other studies show about phytates and oxalates. You're right about no one knowing what actually happens to phytates and oxalates inside our bodies; the beaker boys have only vague clues and various theories destined to fail the test of time.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Im not sure about that ,balance studies show we need around 3.5 mg a day.

Just dont go too higher than that!

Studies in the U.S. and European Union do show 3.5 mg. Those studies are based on "a review of the literature." (lol) The major cause of oral manganism is contaminated drinking water.

 

[paymanz]

Studies in the U.S. and European Union do show 3.5 mg. Those studies are based on "a review of the literature." (lol) The major cause of oral manganism is contaminated drinking water.

yeah upper limits are set based on manganese in water and inhaled manganese, and these routes are much more bioavailable than manganese from food.

but 3.5mg that i mentioned are from balance studies on human and not a "review".

what is human Mn requirement in your opinion then?

 

[Capt Nirvana]

yeah upper limits are set based on manganese in water and inhaled manganese, and these routes are much more bioavailable than manganese from food.

but 3.5mg that i mentioned are from balance studies on human and not a "review".

what is human Mn requirement in your opinion then?

Maybe 2-10 mg. It varies. It's beyond my pay grade. (My gig is Broad-Spectrum Yellow Fat Disease.) Most manganism is caused by contaminated drinking water and supplements, not food. People with Lyme disease might consider the low end of the spectrum, since Borrelia burgdorferi feeds on manganese instead of iron. Coffee reduces iron absorption (why I drink lots of it for the flu), and the jury's still out about manganese. (Coffee enhances magnesium, potassium, sodium, niacinamide, and vitamin B12 absorption.)

 

[Travis]

Interesting...I've never heard of manganese as a culprit. Do you have any references for that? I would like to know since I've upped my pineapple intake in the recent months. I'm guessing @Travis will want to know too. I also don't think he would say aluminum is a minor playing after reading his posts. Minimizing exposure to toxins is critical and should come first, but there has got to be a methodology for reversing already established toxic insults.

I suppose manganese can be toxic, but I'd think anyone with enough calcium and magnesium could offset that. Aluminum is unique in that it is a very small ion, has the rare 3+ charge, and can displace the similarly-sized Fe³⁺. [Here is a chart of ionic radii.] Manganese is a necessary enzymatic cofactor, has a 2+ charge, and is larger than aluminum (which has a penchant for crosslinking phosphate groups, including those on nerves). I don't know much about manganese overload but it doesn't seem to be any worse than iron, and should certainly be less toxic than aluminum.

I would predict that that manganese toxicity is essentially just magnesium and calcium deficiency, allowing spaces for the manganese to occupy.

 

[Capt Nirvana]

On the other side of the coin, many researchers label manganese "an essential pathological factor" in dementia and see aluminum as only a contributory factor. Aluminum actually protects against manganese scaling in iron-manganese-aluminum alloys, but does nothing to stop the ravages of iron. One thing for sure, levodopa is a dangerous drug, increasing motor functions by facilitating neurological damage — analogous to getting "energy" from methamphetamine/dopamine (robbing Peter to pay Paul). Pharmaceutical companies already have an ANTI-dopamine drug for Parkinson's waiting in the wings — waiting for the current patents to expire, that is. Cash flow is the lifeblood of Big Pharma.