Progesterone Works Wonders But It's Causing Weight Gain?

[Emstar1892]

Hey everyone!

It's been ages since I've posted here but I'd love your thoughts on something.

I've been taking 20mg transdermal progesterone cream for 4 months. It's done amazing things. I'm more social, I have less hypoglycemia, a very high libido, and haven't had any side effects.

Except - it's made me gain weight around my hips and lower belly. I look quite disproportionate - 3 inches gained just in that section. It also causes water retention sometimes - I can tell as my rings are super tight and face looks a little puffy.

Weird, as these symptoms seem estrogenic, no?

Any thoughts appreciated. It's not a huge deal, but it will be if it continues.

 

[lollipop]

Hey everyone!

It's been ages since I've posted here but I'd love your thoughts on something.

I've been taking 20mg transdermal progesterone cream for 4 months. It's done amazing things. I'm more social, I have less hypoglycemia, a very high libido, and haven't had any side effects.

Except - it's made me gain weight around my hips and lower belly. I look quite disproportionate - 3 inches gained just in that section. It also causes water retention sometimes - I can tell as my rings are super tight and face looks a little puffy.

Weird, as these symptoms seem estrogenic, no?

Any thoughts appreciated. It's not a huge deal, but it will be if it continues.

This was my experience using Progest-e in the beginning when I took a small dose. The instructions were to use higher dose for a few weeks and gradually lower it back to your ideal. Theory is it can stimulate estrogen. Of course I did not follow instructions...urrgg. I found it felt amazing at first, then my estrogenic symptoms seemed to increase.

After this I intuitively knew progesterone would help but I started researching to figure out what was going on. Read a lot of this site which is a behemoth but good info. Great research resources as well. Convinced, I upped massively my dose until all symptoms started decreasing and lowered it back down gradually.

Also I have a theory, not proven, just a thought, running on adrenaline or being adrenaline adaptive could cause your weight to be lower. Progesterone definitely breaks that stress cycle and might cause some weight gain as body retrains itself to healthy metabolism? Please someone feel free to correct my theory. I have seen similar in a few clients as they drop out of the adrenaline driven energy.

Maybe this helps? Wishing you luck in figuring it out.

 

[nikkmm]

I'm 29 F... I had the same effects with transdermal progesterone. I was using Emerita pro-gest individual packets. But after switching to oral Progest E (I swallow some and rub some on my lips/gums) and Simply Progesterone Serum, all I can say is WOW. I have lost major water weight and my other Estrogen symptoms have greatly improved. And it's only been a month. I think that weak progesterone supplementation kind of activates estrogen but isn't strong enough to overcome it. At least that's the feeling I get. With the oral solution I am doing 3 big drops 5x a day. This is also a much higher dose than the transdermal. I think @lisaferraro is right - increase the dose a lot and I would advise switching to Progest E or Simply Progesterone Serum.

 

[lollipop]

I'm 29 F... I had the same effects with transdermal progesterone. I was using Emerita pro-gest individual packets. But after switching to oral Progest E (I swallow some and rub some on my lips/gums) and Simply Progesterone Serum, all I can say is WOW. I have lost major water weight and my other Estrogen symptoms have greatly improved. And it's only been a month. I think that weak progesterone supplementation kind of activates estrogen but isn't strong enough to overcome it. At least that's the feeling I get. With the oral solution I am doing 3 big drops 5x a day. This is also a much higher dose than the transdermal. I think @lisaferraro is right - increase the dose a lot and I would advise switching to Progest E or Simply Progesterone Serum.

+1 I also saw on FB group for RP that @healthnatura progesterone gives some people good results as well. I personally love Progest-e and rubbing on my gums :)

 

[Emstar1892]

I'm 29 F... I had the same effects with transdermal progesterone. I was using Emerita pro-gest individual packets. But after switching to oral Progest E (I swallow some and rub some on my lips/gums) and Simply Progesterone Serum, all I can say is WOW. I have lost major water weight and my other Estrogen symptoms have greatly improved. And it's only been a month. I think that weak progesterone supplementation kind of activates estrogen but isn't strong enough to overcome it. At least that's the feeling I get. With the oral solution I am doing 3 big drops 5x a day. This is also a much higher dose than the transdermal. I think @lisaferraro is right - increase the dose a lot and I would advise switching to Progest E or Simply Progesterone Serum.

Awesome! So glad you've had great results so you're 25 and female? Cool. It's very hard to find info from girls who are pre menopause and taking progesterone! I have progest-e already so I'll try switching to that and upping my dose

 

[tca300]

Also things that raise metabolism increase appetite. I have found in the past with coconut oil, coffee, red light etc.. they all made me hungrier and I ate more without consciously knowing, and I gained weight. If calories are kept constant, then adding things like mentioned above and progesterone would cause weight loss.

 

[Emstar1892]

This was my experience using Progest-e in the beginning when I took a small dose. The instructions were to use higher dose for a few weeks and gradually lower it back to your ideal. Theory is it can stimulate estrogen. Of course I did not follow instructions...urrgg. I found it felt amazing at first, then my estrogenic symptoms seemed to increase.

After this I intuitively knew progesterone would help but I started researching to figure out what was going on. Read a lot of this site which is a behemoth but good info. Great research resources as well. Convinced, I upped massively my dose until all symptoms started decreasing and lowered it back down gradually.

Also I have a theory, not proven, just a thought, running on adrenaline or being adrenaline adaptive could cause your weight to be lower. Progesterone definitely breaks that stress cycle and might cause some weight gain as body retrains itself to healthy metabolism? Please someone feel free to correct my theory. I have seen similar in a few clients as they drop out of the adrenaline driven energy.

Maybe this helps? Wishing you luck in figuring it out.

Ah, the ever-insightful Lisa Ferraro! Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, I kept reading that but felt scared to increase so much. I'll try increasing from tomorrow.

Random question but did progesterone affect your thyroid levels in any way?

 

[nikkmm]

+1 I also saw on FB group for RP that @healthnatura progesterone gives some people good results as well. I personally love Progest-e and rubbing on my gums :)

Have you tried both? I just recently started with the health natura brand. The consistency is very different from Progest E. I kind of feel like the Progest E was stronger, but could also be because I can't dose as accurately with Progest E and I might have been using more. Would love to hear others experiences.

 

[nikkmm]

Awesome! So glad you've had great results so you're 25 and female? Cool. It's very hard to find info from girls who are pre menopause and taking progesterone! I have progest-e already so I'll try switching to that and upping my dose

Yes well 29 lol. I can definitively say that oral progesterone has made a huge positive impact on my life and well being. Let us know how it goes!

 

[lollipop]

Ah, the ever-insightful Lisa Ferraro! Thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, I kept reading that but felt scared to increase so much. I'll try increasing from tomorrow.

Random question but did progesterone affect your thyroid levels in any way?

Hard to isolate @Emstar1892 because I also had shifted my diet and worked on healing my liver. That said, my temps have steadily increased and feel better all around. Kind of like @whodathunkit posted in the Dalton thread recently. Hope this helps!

 

[Peata]

Also things that raise metabolism increase appetite. I have found in the past with coconut oil, coffee, red light etc.. they all made me hungrier and I ate more without consciously knowing, and I gained weight. If calories are kept constant, then adding things like mentioned above and progesterone would cause weight loss.

Some questions for you...

These things increase appetite, and especially for sugary things, I've found. If you don't eat when your appetite is increased, doesn't this cause adrenaline, making it hard to focus on other things and hurting health?

Seems like it's circle - raise metabolism, increase appetite, eat more, gain weight.
Or raise metabolism, don't eat more, feel bad and damage health...?

Is there another way to mitigate the damage of being hungry and not eating, like trying to eat little like a piece of fruit. It doesn't always feel like enough though. Is that still ok from a health standpoint?

 

[tca300]

@Peata
" I think it’s that even a moderate intake of PUFA becomes toxic eventually with a high calorie intake, because it’s stored rather than being used right away as fuel. With minimal PUFA, the metabolic rate increases, reducing fat deposition." - Ray Peat

Indicating one of the main benefits of increased metabolism is to use all the fuel you eat rather than it being stored. So best case scenario you eat no more than you are able to burn. The body doesn't want to lose fat once it has it, and it will do many things to try and keep it, like subconsciously reducing your physical movements, eating more than needed etc.. With a small calorie deficit, vitamin E, Aspirin, and Coconut oil, there is nothing wrong with a little fat being pulled from your stores. Other than liposuction, there really is no other way to lose fat. The small amount of stress hormones released from a minor calorie deficit are often amplified by hypothyroidism, vitamin e deficiency, and high PUFA stores. ( " Vitamin E protects against the stored PUFA " - Ray Peat " Fat people usually have circulating free PUFA, and coconut oil can counteract their effects. " ~ Ray Peat ) Eating a diet that raises the metabolism so you can eat more and still lose weight is important, other wise some people have to cut to 1000 calories or less. People over zealous with fat loss that cut calories way too low looking for faster results. ( " If a person doesn't lose excess weight on a moderately low calorie diet with adequate protein, it's clear that the metabolic rate is low." ~ Ray Peat ) Ultimately eating a good diet low in PUFA and reducing weight slowly ( if needed ) while using things like vitamin E, aspirin, and coconut oil for a few years, or until the weight is lost, then finding how much food allows you to maintain the weight your most comfortable at is the way to do it. I'm quite surprised people still think there is a magical way to eat all you want and never gain weight, even with pro metabolic foods, there is still a point at which fat deposition occurs, without exception. For people who haven't gained excess weight, its best not to go down that road in the first place, because fat loss seems to be somewhat stressful, but like I said, after the excess weight is lost, then maintaining that new weight set point by not eating more than you personally need is not stressful. Maintenance is perfectly fine and fully compatible with health. Calorie needs are highly individual and listening to people who over simplify, and say things like " you need at least 3000 kcals to function properly.. etc.." often will lead people down the road of unwanted fat gain, if that far surpasses their individual fuel needs. Thats my personal opinion based on years of learning, observation, experimentation, and what Ray has said. Im not interested in arguing, so anyone who tries to will be left without a response.

 

[Tenacity]

Completely agree with @tca300. I've seen many times people recommend 3000+kcal (I think from recommendations given by youreatopia) and it never seemed justified. Weight gain occurs when the caloric intake exceeds the energy use of the body's metabolic functions, weight loss occurs inversely. It's that simple. It's not about macronutrient composition or hormones (although these may influence the metabolic rate, certainly).

 

[Stevie]

I'm going to start taking progesterone shortly and have been concerned about weight gain. I may adopt this eating plan at first just to see how things go.


Co2 Factor: Practical ways to lose fat

 

[Peata]

@Peata
" I think it’s that even a moderate intake of PUFA becomes toxic eventually with a high calorie intake, because it’s stored rather than being used right away as fuel. With minimal PUFA, the metabolic rate increases, reducing fat deposition." - Ray Peat

Indicating one of the main benefits of increased metabolism is to use all the fuel you eat rather than it being stored. So best case scenario you eat no more than you are able to burn. The body doesn't want to lose fat once it has it, and it will do many things to try and keep it, like subconsciously reducing your physical movements, eating more than needed etc.. With a small calorie deficit, vitamin E, Aspirin, and Coconut oil, there is nothing wrong with a little fat being pulled from your stores. Other than liposuction, there really is no other way to lose fat. The small amount of stress hormones released from a minor calorie deficit are often amplified by hypothyroidism, vitamin e deficiency, and high PUFA stores. ( " Vitamin E protects against the stored PUFA " - Ray Peat " Fat people usually have circulating free PUFA, and coconut oil can counteract their effects. " ~ Ray Peat ) Eating a diet that raises the metabolism so you can eat more and still lose weight is important, other wise some people have to cut to 1000 calories or less. People over zealous with fat loss that cut calories way too low looking for faster results. ( " If a person doesn't lose excess weight on a moderately low calorie diet with adequate protein, it's clear that the metabolic rate is low." ~ Ray Peat ) Ultimately eating a good diet low in PUFA and reducing weight slowly ( if needed ) while using things like vitamin E, aspirin, and coconut oil for a few years, or until the weight is lost, then finding how much food allows you to maintain the weight your most comfortable at is the way to do it. I'm quite surprised people still think there is a magical way to eat all you want and never gain weight, even with pro metabolic foods, there is still a point at which fat deposition occurs, without exception. For people who haven't gained excess weight, its best not to go down that road in the first place, because fat loss seems to be somewhat stressful, but like I said, after the excess weight is lost, then maintaining that new weight set point by not eating more than you personally need is not stressful. Maintenance is perfectly fine and fully compatible with health. Calorie needs are highly individual and listening to people who over simplify, and say things like " you need at least 3000 kcals to function properly.. etc.." often will lead people down the road of unwanted fat gain, if that far surpasses their individual fuel needs. Thats my personal opinion based on years of learning, observation, experimentation, and what Ray has said. Im not interested in arguing, so anyone who tries to will be left without a response.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Peata]

I'm going to start taking progesterone shortly and have been concerned about weight gain. I may adopt this eating plan at first just to see how things go.


Co2 Factor: Practical ways to lose fat

Something like that was helping me lose weight in Dec and Jan. I used low fat, sugared milk as a meal replacement, plus ate every 2 - 3 hours, smallish meals. Also using the metabolism enhancers, and I think they let me eat a little higher calorie than usual, but if I ate too much fat it seemed to stall things.

 

[Stevie]

I don't think the diet will be be too difficult to implement, my current diet is pretty much the same, but with a bit of extra cheese, and butter on my potatoes and in my liver pate, and a bit of cream in my chowder and custard and ice cream.

Poo! This is going to be really hard:-/

 

[Peata]

I don't think the diet will be be too difficult to implement, my current diet is pretty much the same, but with a bit of extra cheese, and butter on my potatoes and in my liver pate, and a bit of cream in my chowder and custard and ice cream.

Poo! This is going to be really hard:-/

I still have more weight to lose, so if you want to compare notes on all this, start a new thread and I'll participate with you. I am always interested in this, but I don't want to derail the progesterone topic.

 

[Makaveli]

I remember reading somewhere that progesterone is anti-estrogenic but decreases androgens? On this thread people are claiming increased estrogenic symptoms...So what's the real answer?

 

[HDD]

Caller: My question is about Dr. Peat’s newsletter on “ Tissue-bound estrogen and aging”: he mentions that menopausal women often get high estrogen concentration in their tissue, as opposed to their blood. Could they get a dose of progesterone to knock it out of their tissue into their blood, and then get a phlebotomy ? Would that help to decrease systemic estrogen ?

RP: No. If the liver is working, and if you’re eating enough protein, and if your thyroid is ok, your liver will send the estrogen straight to your kidneys, to be excreted, as soon as the progesterone gets it out of your cells into the bloodstream.
And there are several enzyme systems involved in this: the progesterone basically destroys the estrogen receptor that binds estrogen. It destroys the enzyme that releases estrogen from the glucuronic form deposited in cells. It activates the enzymes that add the glucuronic acid to remove it from cells. And it shifts the oxidative enzymes, so that they destroy the active form of estrogen. So, everything progesterone does to estrogen system, gets it out of the cells, then your liver will send it to your kidneys to excrete.

HD: And progesterone helps the liver to get rid of excess estrogen as well.

RP: Yeah. Progesterone activates the thyroid to do that.