Progesterone - Urticaria, Joint Stiffness, Arthrosis: Help For My Mom

[marteagal]

[ moderator edit: post moved from: Progesterone ]

@beachbum, @lisaferraro, I hope you don’t mind me asking two more questions. I appreciate your first-hand experiences sooo much.

The progesteronetherapy website and Katharina Dalton have stressed that adrenaline prevents progesterone from working. When you plucked up the courage to take your 300+ mg dose, were there any precautionary steps you took, for instance, did you eat an extra meal or take extra salt beforehand to ensure that adrenaline was low enough and that a boost of metablism wouldn't cause trouble?

Lisa, as you take Progest-E: Have you ever experienced blood thinning effects from all the vitamin E contained in Progest-E?
And, do you take extra vitamin K as it seems K gets depleted by excess vitamin E ?

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[lollipop]

@beachbum, @lisaferraro, I hope you don’t mind me asking two more questions. I appreciate your first-hand experiences sooo much.

The progesteronetherapy website and Katharina Dalton have stressed that adrenaline prevents progesterone from working. When you plucked up the courage to take your 300+ mg dose, were there any precautionary steps you took, for instance, did you eat an extra meal or take extra salt beforehand to ensure that adrenaline was low enough and that a boost of metablism wouldn't cause trouble?

Lisa, as you take Progest-E: Have you ever experienced blood thinning effects from all the vitamin E contained in Progest-E?
And, do you take extra vitamin K as it seems K gets depleted by excess vitamin E ?

Thank you very much in advance!

Hello @marteagal! I wanted to acknowledge seeing your request and I want to give you a thorough answer. Am swamped these days until Mon due to clients and the holiday. I promise to circle back next week with a detailed response and include even ideas you did not ask about Have a wonderful weekend!

 

[marteagal]

Ok, thank you and have a nice holiday!! See you soon then.

 

[beachbum]

@beachbum, @lisaferraro, I hope you don’t mind me asking two more questions. I appreciate your first-hand experiences sooo much.

The progesteronetherapy website and Katharina Dalton have stressed that adrenaline prevents progesterone from working. When you plucked up the courage to take your 300+ mg dose, were there any precautionary steps you took, for instance, did you eat an extra meal or take extra salt beforehand to ensure that adrenaline was low enough and that a boost of metablism wouldn't cause trouble?

Lisa, as you take Progest-E: Have you ever experienced blood thinning effects from all the vitamin E contained in Progest-E?
And, do you take extra vitamin K as it seems K gets depleted by excess vitamin E ?

Thank you very much in advance!

Hi Marteagal,

First I just ate alot mostly carbs because certain foods made me worse. I craved potatoes, milk, even fatty foods like Fried type foods mostly french fries and salt and ketchup. This did help my symptoms alot. Strange enough that was before I came across this forum. I personally stopped supplements and also found out I was very allergic to yogurt. As for using cream it is more cost effective for me and I apply it into the vagina which kicks in within an hour. On the PT site she says it doesn't say in the tissue. I personally believe that because if that was the csse I wouldn't need to apply so much or even through out the day. Lol I wish it did then I I would have a steady flow.. not.. as for eating I eat when I hungry and I also stopped over eating ..that helped alot. I hope I answered your questions. If I didn't then for me you may have to word it differently. rolleyes: my next step I believe is I need some kind of exercise.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Happy sasuki

 

[lollipop]

Hi @marteagal!

I had already started eating and exploring Ray Peat concepts for about a year before I stepped it up, so I must have had enough fuel and sucrose/fructose. Honestly I did not even link the two, though that would now be my advice - lol.

I literally jumped in one day after researching and contemplating for over a month. Something was not "right" in me and I knew it. I preferred not to jump into thyroid hormone as I felt that was a tricky path AND knew I was at the periomenopausal stage of life. Before this I had kept my hormones regulated with Maca root for estrogen and Vitex for progesterone which worked until it didn't. I also think the Vitex lowered libido too much (a side effect actually).

One day, that fateful evening, I was simply FED UP with not feeling myself and remembering that when I initially used progest-e I had noticed a HUGE change in my nerves. The next door neighbor's reconstruction on his condo no longer caused an "edge" in me. My ability to tolerate things with more patience greatly improved. I had not remained consistent and now realize was not taking enough for me. Remember everyone is different and it requires conscious experimentation.

Now I actually consider it a miracle substance.

*For example: my body began fighting a virus while at a social event with all the typical "flu" symptoms. I had nothing on me to help except my progest - e which I never leave home without. I went and got it out of my purse took an extra dose similar to my normal evening dose and within a few minutes felt it disseminating through my system and ALL my body aches disappeared and my swollen lymph nodes went down. I reached home later took 2 Aspirin (325mg) with milk and within 20 min felt like my system beat the virus (not sure so believe it is exogenous anymore) or at least ALL the symptoms disappeared.

*Another example: I felt a headache beginning to arise while working the other day, all I had on me again was the progesterone. Took again an extra dose of my normal 2 times daily dose and headache gone simply gone.

*Dosing is key and for me, I only need those 3 or so months of high dose, then I could bring it back down towards lower doses. I needed the kick from high dose, low doses were not doing it AND my intuition felt progesterone was key for me.

I find these two substances: Aspirin and Progesterone, along with a thyroid friendly "Peaty" diet pretty miraculous for me anyway...

Hope this helps!

 

[marteagal]

Thank you, beachbum and Lisa for those new useful details!

I conclude that I should not worry too much about vitamin E’s blood thinning effects and eating extra.

Now it’s up to me. Unfortunately, my mother is still on T3 (but “non-responding” to it). The interaction between T3 and progesterone makes things more complicated. I will first lower her T3 dose by skipping the afternoon dose which is about ~15 mcg. Instead of it, I will ask her to build up progesterone while keeping an eye on potential side effects (e.g., palpitations).

 

[marteagal]

Now I feel the urge to reduce to around 150 mg in two doses - morning and night (1/2 life of progesterone is 13 hours - so always want to have some in me). I have been using this lowered dose for one week as oral dose on lips and gums.

@lisaferraro, when you take the 150 mg dose on your lips and gums, I guess the major part of it will be swallowed before getting fully absorbed, what do you think?

Did you or @beachbum recognize loss of excessive weight (just in case there was any in the first place)?

 

[lollipop]

@lisaferraro, when you take the 150 mg dose on your lips and gums, I guess the major part of it will be swallowed before getting fully absorbed, what do you think?

Did you or @beachbum recognize loss of excessive weight (just in case there was any in the first place)?

Some gets swallowed but most is on gums and lips - slow absorption. I can feel it...

No excessive weight loss at all.

 

[marteagal]

Thank you, I take this as saying that you didn't have weight to lose :)
Btw, the experiment is running ...

 

[lollipop]

Thank you, I take this as saying that you didn't have weight to lose :)
Btw, the experiment is running ...

I wish I didn't have weight to lose o(^_-)O Really think this form of eating is anabolic and I gained weight and size. It also showed me how I was undereating and stressing my body to stay thin. Now I am closer to healthy balanced body and size

 

[marteagal]

Lisa, feeling better and balanced is more important!
I just thought that if high doses of progesterone powerfully lowered estrogen, then losing weight would be a positive side effect, besides eliminating flu symptoms, headache, etc.

 

[lollipop]

Lisa, feeling better and balanced is more important!
I just thought that if high doses of progesterone powerfully lowered estrogen, then losing weight would be a positive side effect, besides eliminating flu symptoms, headache, etc.

I totally forgot one thing @marteagal, part of that high dose I applied on arms or legs with each application. My reasoning: a good portion would have direct absorption through gums and some would be slow absorption through tissue thus giving me a continual dose. Progesterone has a 1/2 life of 13 hours.

 

[marteagal]

Hi! About a week with daily 150-190 mg progesterone is over now. My mother reported moderate calmness/sleepiness but this dose also seems to induce some sort of cognitive slowing, evident when playing Rummikub. Effects on urticaria/hives, which were one of the main reasons for taking the higher progesterone doses, could be better. Do you think that we are on the right track? I guess, more severe symptoms such as stiff joints, arthrosis and the like are a matter of months. I am not sure whether to increase the dose further. The fact that her hives haven't completely disappeared speak in favor of increasing the dose, the cognitive slowing against it. I hope, the latter is just a side effect from GABA activation ...

@ moderators: I realize that I have hijacked the thread. Sorry for that. Should I open a new one?

 

[lollipop]

Hi @marteagal,

Your dilemma is one that I do not have any confidence in my knowledge base to help you. Wish I could.

I think it would be a great idea to start a new thread and ask for advice. I am not sure I would use progesterone exclusively for hives. I would use as one in a group of substances.

I would also include antihistamines. Natural is my preference. Things like quercetin, turmeric (Gaia herbs has one called Turmeric Allergy that is amazing), bromelein, Lysine etc.

 

[marteagal]

Thanks! Also for your link to Haidut's response in the other thread. Well, she is still on an antihistamines; Cypro isn't available here.
So I'll try to find out the optimal progesterone dose by experimentation.

 

[beachbum]

Thanks! Also for your link to Haidut's response in the other thread. Well, she is still on an antihistamines; Cypro isn't available here.
So I'll try to find out the optimal progesterone dose by experimentation.

Hi

Just giving my experience. My estrogen was very high and researched for answers. I recommend reading this site www.progesteronetherapy.com that helped me alot. I had to start my dose well over 500mg. I am now steady at 300mg depending on stress, over eating which I don't do anymore, big difference ( it's a stress response), over exercising basically anything that causes stress and other facts like age and of course hormone levels. .duh. I use alot at first from stress and I have only one ovary which is pretty much nonfunctional. As for starting on a high dose, if you don't use enough at first it will keep circulating testosterone first then estrogen. Just read that site I posted.

I hope it helps.
Beachbum

 

[marteagal]

Thanks for weighing in, @beachbum. I did read the progesteronetherapy website. However, I am still a bit frightened at the high vitamin E dose coming with Progest-E. Unlike you, I do not have access to progesterone cream, but it's easy to get Progest-E.
We are currently @ 200 mg progesterone. I'll push it to 300 mg.

 

[Giraffe]

@ moderators: I realize that I have hijacked the thread. Sorry for that. Should I open a new one?

I separated the posts from the original thread. Happy New Year! :)

 

[beachbum]

Thanks for weighing in, @beachbum. I did read the progesteronetherapy website. However, I am still a bit frightened at the high vitamin E dose coming with Progest-E. Unlike you, I do not have access to progesterone cream, but it's easy to get Progest-E.
We are currently @ 200 mg progesterone. I'll push it to 300 mg.

Where do you live. The cream I use has approximately has 25ui a dose so I get about 100 a day. So not sure how bad getting alot of E does, what would be the effects of to much E. Also space out your progesterone doses. I use it in morning and through out the day according to symptoms and just before bed, I always use it in the morning and at night, some times I dont have time throughout the day to put it on. Also the reason I use the cream is because the company I get it from has 10% concertration, one pump is 100mgs of progesterone and 25 ui E, at that percent I won't go broke. This is the brand I use Ona's Natural Progesterone Cream

Hugs to you.
Beachbum