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Progesterone To Estradiol Ratio (P:E2)

Discussion in 'Labs' started by sweetpeat, Aug 13, 2015.

  1. sweetpeat

    sweetpeat Member

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    I've spent the morning searching the forum and Ray Peat's articles for what is a good P:E2 ratio. I've seen many references to it in Peat's writings, and he seems to think it's important. But is there a range for what is considered optimum? (According to Peat, of course :) ).

    For saliva testing, a ratio of 100-500 is considered good according to ZRT labs. Dr. John Lee preferred 200-300, I think. Is this a good enough standard to go by? Or is there also a serum ratio to take into account?
     
  2. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Peat says that a ratio of 10:1 for progesterone:estrogen is preferable.
    http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/0 ... ual-cycle/

    "...An excessive estrogen/progesterone ratio (should be 1 part to 10 parts, estrogen to progesterone), is involved in producing aggravating symptoms such thin, bluish skin. Low thyroid is one cause of excess estrogen, and when high estrogen is combined with low thyroid function, the skin can look relatively bloodless."

    However, this is the ratio he wants to see in tissues. Since there is no cheap, painless way to get tissue levels of estrogen you can use this guideline to calculate it based on your blood estrogen numbers.
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... ogen.shtml

    "... His crucial observation was that the difference in estrogen concentration between tissue and blood was lowest in the luteal phase, when progesterone is high: “The tissue/plasma ratio of E2 [estradiol] ranged from 1.45 to 20.36 with very high values in early follicular phase and the lowest in mid-luteal phase.” This means that progesterone prevents the tissue from concentrating estrogen. He made similar observations during pregnancy, with tissue estrogen decreasing as blood progesterone increased, so that there is less estrogen in the tissue than in the plasma. But in women who aren’t pregnant, and when their progesterone is low, the tissues may contain 20 to 30 times more estrogen than the plasma (in equal volumes)."

    So, get a blood test for estrogen in your luteal phase and then multiple by 1.45, and then multiply that number by 10. That's how high you want your progesterone to be to control tissue estrogen.
     
  3. OP
    sweetpeat

    sweetpeat Member

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    That is so cool! Thank you!
     
  4. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Ooops, I forgot to add the remaining of the quote from that study:
    "...The tissue/plasma ratio of E2 ranged from 1.45 to 20.36 with very high values in early follicular phase and the lowest in mid-luteal phase. The ratio for P ranged from 0.54 to 23.7 and was significantly lower in the luteal phase than in other phases of the cycle."

    So, in addition to the estrogen you also want to test the progesterone in your luteal phase and multiply that number by 0.54. That would be tissue levels of progesterone. Then as you take progesterone (or lower estrogen using other methods) you can retest both hormones again in your luteal phase and multiply by the numbers I mentioned. If the tissue ratio estrogen : progesterone is at least 1:10 then you should be OK.
     
  5. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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  6. OP
    sweetpeat

    sweetpeat Member

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    I haven't checked recently, but back in 2016 I had a 10:1 ratio. After doing the math, you need to make sure the units used to measure estrogen and progesterone are the same. They are different for my lab so that's why I mention it. Estradiol was measured in pg/mL and progesterone was measured in ng/mL at my lab, so it was necessary to convert to make the comparison.
     
  7. Caitlin

    Caitlin Member

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    @sweetpeat do you know how to make this conversion? I am looking at some old blood work and want to figure out the ratio. For example, my estradiol is 58.6 pg/ml, and my 17-OH-progesterone is 51 ng/dL. Thank you!
     
  8. OP
    sweetpeat

    sweetpeat Member

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    There are conversion calculators online. Put in the units you have (for example ng/dL) and what you want to convert to (pg/ml) in your search engine and you can usually find a conversion calculator. Then plug in your numbers. Looking up just now, 51 ng/dL would be 510 pg/ml. Then you do the math as instructed above.
     
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