Progesterone, pregnenolone and thyroid to heal the brain?

[Tigertyger]

Thanks for sharing! I do take T3 and am about to post another question after doing quite a bit of searching, just to get another idea. I had low T3 (bottom of the normal range), high TSH (3.0 so not crazy but not ideal), and mid-range T4. I have taken T3 on and off for years with good results but eventually my system crashes and I get this insane fatigue, which just happened again. I eat plenty of carbs and protein, so I am not sure what is going on except that I sometimes have low normal cortisol. I know that Ray Peat believes that thyroid should restore the adrenals, but I am just not sure how to make that happen. It could be a reduction of other stress hormones, but it's really hard to be dragging around all day, barely able to open my eyes. This happens almost every time I take T3! Then I have to stop, feel awful after a while, and cycle repeats!

It takes time to recover. Large dose progesterone has definitely been helpful in my situation. Don't be to hard on yourself and allow yourself time to heal, it definitely takes time.

 

[danishstargazer]

I think I responded to the person who quoted your response, so just wanted to paste my response here to you, since you wrote it. Any thoughts are valued and appreciated.

t's a good idea, except due to the damage that the benzos caused, I was suicidal every time my allopregnanolone dropped due to my menstrual cycle. Of course the goal is to allow the cycles to return naturally and live a normal life, but before I can do that, I have to figure out how to repair the system. Allopregnanolone is incredibly healing, from what I understand, and stopping the cycles and increasing the allo has done a lot for me. I should add that I actually do cycle down and have short, one day periods every 3-4 weeks, but that's all I can handle.

My hope is that I can transition to pregnenlone, which will supply my brain with the progesterone / allopregnanolone that I need without disrupting all of the hormones. That is what I am hoping. I did previously have pretty significant estrogen dominance, heavy PMS (as described), and low progesterone (lab tested), but that is, of course, gone now. I don't seem to absorb the progesterone that well, so levels for progesterone are still not always high.

Anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying that 1) I agree 2) I need a solution, what do you think of pregnenolone as a possibilityhow do

 

[danishstargazer]

have you actually had your hormones tested ? bc i would argue with the reason you have low moods pms/pmdd has got to do with wonky estrogen/progesterone. in terms of the hormone cascade - pregnenolone converts to progesterone first and to me - that is the last thing you need. you need to get off all hormones , let your period restart and test your hormones for a baseline.

 

[youngsinatra]

Is your vitamin D at 80 ng/ml or nmol/l? that‘s a big difference.

You can add a typical day of eating into cronometer. (a free micronutrient tracking app) That gives you an idea where your nutritional status is and where you have potential deficiencies and mineral imbalances.

 

[mostlylurking]

Wow, Thank you for all of these articles and this insight. I am going to get tested as soon as possible. It would be phenomenal if this could offer significant help. I am curious what your thoughts are on the "more bioavailable" thiamines such as allithiamine or the synthetic sulbutiamine. I had heard of these as helpful, but haven't really explored them in earnest. Also, as this is water soluble, is there any risk in try large doses? I am going to read these materials and do some additional research but thank you so much again.

You're welcome. Please read that article about testing I included earlier. Note that many times people are helped via thiamine supplementation even though the test shows them as "normal". It is so important to educate yourself because most doctors assume that the thiamine issue was solved by "enriching" the refined grains with it (who eats those?).

I suspect you will find thiamine helpful. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement, even high dose. The "more bioavailable" thiamines did not work for me. Allithiamine uses glutathione to work; evidently I didn't have enough of it and so the allithiamine (single capsule) gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours. So I just took thaimine hcl, which works just fine. You just need to take more of it because it does not absorb well via the gut. It does cross the blood brain barrier if taken in high doses. I spent about 10 weeks working up to the 2 gram dose because I did this without a doctor's supervision.

Please note that taking thiamine after 3:00pm can disrupt your sleep whereas taking it before 3:00pm improves sleep so try to complete the day's intake by 3:00pm.

Here are some sources for additional information about thiamine.
https://www.youtube.com/c/EONutrition/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid start with the oldest ones; there are multiple ones focused on thiamine.

You searched for thiamine - Hormones Matter Lots of good info on thiamine. I prefer to follow Ray Peat's advice on hormones though.

HDT Therapy Dr. Costantini's site. He successfully treated over 4000 Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine hcl. Note that 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day for 7 days equals to a once a week 100mg injection of thiamine hcl. Dr. Costantini's research papers are hidden under "Blog Posts". I found his FAQs helpful. His videos of his patients' progress was of interest too: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu I think Dr. Costantini's advice about diet is more realistic/helpful than some others.

 

[mostlylurking]

I do take T3 and am about to post another question after doing quite a bit of searching, just to get another idea. I had low T3 (bottom of the normal range), high TSH (3.0 so not crazy but not ideal), and mid-range T4. I have taken T3 on and off for years with good results but eventually my system crashes and I get this insane fatigue, which just happened again. I eat plenty of carbs and protein, so I am not sure what is going on except that I sometimes have low normal cortisol. I know that Ray Peat believes that thyroid should restore the adrenals, but I am just not sure how to make that happen. It could be a reduction of other stress hormones, but it's really hard to be dragging around all day, barely able to open my eyes. This happens almost every time I take T3! Then I have to stop, feel awful after a while, and cycle repeats!

It was my experience that thiamine deficiency/functional blockage derails thyroid hormone. You need both thiamine and thyroid hormone to achieve good mitochondrial function.

Searching for "Benzodiazepines and thiamine" is fruitful. I found this:
https://orbi.uliege.be/bitstream/2268/8574/1/publi 111.pdf : quote:
At micromolar concentrations, peripheral benzodiazepines inhibit thiamine uptake by the cells . Altogether, our results suggest that impairment of oxidative metabolism, followed by mitochondrial swelling and disorganization of cristae, is the main cause of cell mortality in severely thiamine-deficient neuroblastoma cells .
Key Words: Thiamine-Thiamine deficiency-Energy
metabolism-Mitochondria-Peripheral Benzodiazepine
receptors-Neuroblastoma cells .
J. Neurochem . 64, 2013-2021 (1995) .

My unfortunate experience with Bactrim antibiotic showed me that blocked thiamine function doesn't just resolve itself on its own. In my case, the problem of thiamine dysfunction continued and was not resolved until I took high dose thiamine hcl. Improvement continued for months and has been maintained via thiamine supplementation.

The body compensates for thiamine deficiency. It takes some time for these compensations to readjust to norm after good thiamine levels are achieved.

articles of interest: You searched for Benzodiazepine - Hormones Matter

 

[InChristAlone]

T3 only is dangerous in my opinion. Unless your adrenals are healthy.

 

[golder]

T3 only is dangerous in my opinion. Unless your adrenals are healthy.

This is counter what Ray advocates. It might be worth fleshing out why you think otherwise on a forum dedicated to his foundations.

 

[mostlylurking]

This is counter what Ray advocates. It might be worth fleshing out why you think otherwise on a forum dedicated to his foundations.

If you increase your metabolic rate via T3 and you do not have the other required things to sustain that metabolic rate, you can cause some problems.

Here's one:

THIAMINE DEFICIENCY IN HYPERTHYROIDISM

Experimental or spontaneous hyperthyroidism increases the rate of cell metabolism and thus leads to a higher requirement of essential factors involved in the breakdown and resynthesis of metabolites. Among these factors the important role of thiamine is well established. The phosphorylated form...

jamanetwork.com

"Experimental or spontaneous hyperthyroidism increases the rate of cell metabolism and thus leads to a higher requirement of essential factors involved in the breakdown and resynthesis of metabolites. Among these factors the important role of thiamine is well established. The phosphorylated form of thiamine, diphosphothiamine or cocarboxylase, serves as prosthetic group for the enzymes concerned with the oxidation, carboxylation, decarboxylation, dismutation and condensation of pyruvic acid. Pyruvic acid is an obligatory intermediary in the normal pathway of carbohydrate breakdown and probably in the interconversion of protein, fat and carbohydrate. Conditions that lead to increased cellular metabolism and therefore to increased requirements for essential factors tend obviously to produce a relative deficiency of thiamine."
-end-

T3+sugar can equal thiamine deficiency.

Ray warns about causing various deficiencies when increasing metabolic rate.
see this collection of quotes: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

 

[Androsclerosis]

As a progesterone user, I advice you to take it. Progesterone is one of the most potent and protective hormones out there. The calming effect makes you become a better person and more stress resilient. I remember moments when my friend was angry in the past and my way of approaching the situation was with a clear mind and completely detached from how he was reacting, the same feeling as post-meditation. Also, it made me a better speaker, it helped my word recall and approach of conflicts. Focus was also one strong positive effect that helped me increase my productivity at work and dissociation went away.

On the other hand, pregnenolone is good in moments of stress, but be aware that it does not give you the mental clarity like progesterone.

Tyroid may help boost your metabolism and it's good to take it at night with lots of carbs. The good thing here is that it will improve your quality of sleep, thus your mental clarity.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

All my red alert bells went off in my brain when I read your post. Why in the baby jesus on a triscuit world would you want to STOP your cycle and stop your period.
AHHAHAHAH! having your period is the monthly gift of DETOX and it is a gift. Messing with too much progesterone is going to not only make your gain weight , make your mood terrible , hurt your sleep but it will eventually dry out your cervix and that is a load of hell. Use a condom. Get off all hormones and let your body reset. You are doing damage.

Baby jesus on a triscuit? That is maybe the most disrespectful term I have ever heard.

 

[themartian1000]

It was my experience that thiamine deficiency/functional blockage derails thyroid hormone. You need both thiamine and thyroid hormone to achieve good mitochondrial function.

Searching for "Benzodiazepines and thiamine" is fruitful. I found this:
https://orbi.uliege.be/bitstream/2268/8574/1/publi 111.pdf : quote:
At micromolar concentrations, peripheral benzodiazepines inhibit thiamine uptake by the cells . Altogether, our results suggest that impairment of oxidative metabolism, followed by mitochondrial swelling and disorganization of cristae, is the main cause of cell mortality in severely thiamine-deficient neuroblastoma cells .
Key Words: Thiamine-Thiamine deficiency-Energy
metabolism-Mitochondria-Peripheral Benzodiazepine
receptors-Neuroblastoma cells .
J. Neurochem . 64, 2013-2021 (1995) .

My unfortunate experience with Bactrim antibiotic showed me that blocked thiamine function doesn't just resolve itself on its own. In my case, the problem of thiamine dysfunction continued and was not resolved until I took high dose thiamine hcl. Improvement continued for months and has been maintained via thiamine supplementation.

The body compensates for thiamine deficiency. It takes some time for these compensations to readjust to norm after good thiamine levels are achieved.

articles of interest: You searched for Benzodiazepine - Hormones Matter

Have you ever tried allithiamine or sulbitiamine? I know the latter is synthetic, but I've heard the former is a more bioavailable form of thiamine. I have been giving it a try and do feel somewhat better.

 

[themartian1000]

You're welcome. Please read that article about testing I included earlier. Note that many times people are helped via thiamine supplementation even though the test shows them as "normal". It is so important to educate yourself because most doctors assume that the thiamine issue was solved by "enriching" the refined grains with it (who eats those?).

I suspect you will find thiamine helpful. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement, even high dose. The "more bioavailable" thiamines did not work for me. Allithiamine uses glutathione to work; evidently I didn't have enough of it and so the allithiamine (single capsule) gave me a headache that lasted 36 hours. So I just took thaimine hcl, which works just fine. You just need to take more of it because it does not absorb well via the gut. It does cross the blood brain barrier if taken in high doses. I spent about 10 weeks working up to the 2 gram dose because I did this without a doctor's supervision.

Please note that taking thiamine after 3:00pm can disrupt your sleep whereas taking it before 3:00pm improves sleep so try to complete the day's intake by 3:00pm.

Here are some sources for additional information about thiamine.
https://www.youtube.com/c/EONutrition/videos?view=0&sort=da&flow=grid start with the oldest ones; there are multiple ones focused on thiamine.

You searched for thiamine - Hormones Matter Lots of good info on thiamine. I prefer to follow Ray Peat's advice on hormones though.

HDT Therapy Dr. Costantini's site. He successfully treated over 4000 Parkinson's Disease patients with high dose thiamine hcl. Note that 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day for 7 days equals to a once a week 100mg injection of thiamine hcl. Dr. Costantini's research papers are hidden under "Blog Posts". I found his FAQs helpful. His videos of his patients' progress was of interest too: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu I think Dr. Costantini's advice about diet is more realistic/helpful than some others.

This is amazing information! I am going to absorb these links for a bit and get some thiamine hcl. I did ask you about allithiamine before I saw this post, so apologies for the already answered question. I will seek my doctor's help, but at the moment, most are so swamped with other things that it is hard to get assistance. I may just try taking thiamine hcl in the morning. I didn't notice any problems with allithiamine, but that said, it may be better to try the old fashioned thiamine and work my way up. I will report back. Many, many thanks again!

 

[mostlylurking]

Have you ever tried allithiamine or sulbitiamine? I know the latter is synthetic, but I've heard the former is a more bioavailable form of thiamine. I have been giving it a try and do feel somewhat better.

I did try allithiamine but it gave me a headache. I later learned that allithiamine requires glutathione to work and negative reactions to allithiamine can be caused by a glutathione deficiency which I think was my issue.

I did not try sulbitiamine.

 

[themartian1000]

have you actually had your hormones tested ? bc i would argue with the reason you have low moods pms/pmdd has got to do with wonky estrogen/progesterone. in terms of the hormone cascade - pregnenolone converts to progesterone first and to me - that is the last thing you need. you need to get off all hormones , let your period restart and test your hormones for a baseline.

Yep, tested my hormones through the entire cycle (ZRT). My estrogen was high compared to progesterone, and taking progesterone fixed all of my symptoms.

 

[mostlylurking]

This is amazing information! I am going to absorb these links for a bit and get some thiamine hcl. I did ask you about allithiamine before I saw this post, so apologies for the already answered question. I will seek my doctor's help, but at the moment, most are so swamped with other things that it is hard to get assistance. I may just try taking thiamine hcl in the morning. I didn't notice any problems with allithiamine, but that said, it may be better to try the old fashioned thiamine and work my way up. I will report back. Many, many thanks again!

you're welcome; glad to learn you find the info helpful. I was never able to find a doctor to help me so I did the high dose thiamine hcl on my own. I could tell from the positive response that I got from a smaller dose (250-300mg) that I had found what my problem was so I just increased the dose over a couple of months up to what Dr. Costantini recommended.

 

[themartian1000]

Is your vitamin D at 80 ng/ml or nmol/l? that‘s a big difference.

You can add a typical day of eating into cronometer. (a free micronutrient tracking app) That gives you an idea where your nutritional status is and where you have potential deficiencies and mineral imbalances.

Thank you! I love cronometer and have used it quite a lot. My last vitamin D was 40mg/ml, so I have been supplementing a bit to see if I can get it higher and plan to test in another month (this was 6 weeks ago).

 

[invictus]

Zinc + P5P + Magnesium before bed is very calming to the brain by increasing GABA and reducing Glutamate.

Regulating acetylcholine is very important for autonomic nervous system functioning and restorative sleep. Increasing dietary choline, getting vitamin D into the optimal range of 60-100ng/ml and the B-vitamin complex family increase acetylcholine.
Dr. Gominak has a lot of good info on the topic of sleep.

Sleeping is probably most important to heal the brain and body, but it‘s hard in our modern environment - for me too!

I read much of Dr. Gominak's writing. For me nothing she wrote about worked. Regarding zinc+p5p before bed; for some it works and some it doesn't(me), nor does magnesium. Worsens my sleep. There's no 'one size fits all' remedy.

 

[Phosphor]

I'm putting this comment in because I decided to try pregnenolone again. In the past it has caused terrible insomnia (no sleep for DAYS) and I decided probably taking way too much. I bought some 10mg cheapo stuff, started taking it. Well, I did my usual "on again" "off again" "on again" testing to see if I could tell a difference, and the data is IN. With this 10mg of pregnenolone upon waking daily, I have more energy, more motivation, get way more done, and DO NOT NEED MY 90mg Naturethroid any more. It is way cheaper and more effective. Does not seem to affect reproductive hormone levels in any way I can detect. (When a doctor, long ago, was trying to fix my hormones with high dose pregnenolone, that is when I found I simply did not sleep on any dose higher than my current 10mg.)

 

[invictus]

If you increase your metabolic rate via T3 and you do not have the other required things to sustain that metabolic rate, you can cause some problems.

Here's one:

THIAMINE DEFICIENCY IN HYPERTHYROIDISM

Experimental or spontaneous hyperthyroidism increases the rate of cell metabolism and thus leads to a higher requirement of essential factors involved in the breakdown and resynthesis of metabolites. Among these factors the important role of thiamine is well established. The phosphorylated form...

jamanetwork.com

"Experimental or spontaneous hyperthyroidism increases the rate of cell metabolism and thus leads to a higher requirement of essential factors involved in the breakdown and resynthesis of metabolites. Among these factors the important role of thiamine is well established. The phosphorylated form of thiamine, diphosphothiamine or cocarboxylase, serves as prosthetic group for the enzymes concerned with the oxidation, carboxylation, decarboxylation, dismutation and condensation of pyruvic acid. Pyruvic acid is an obligatory intermediary in the normal pathway of carbohydrate breakdown and probably in the interconversion of protein, fat and carbohydrate. Conditions that lead to increased cellular metabolism and therefore to increased requirements for essential factors tend obviously to produce a relative deficiency of thiamine."
-end-

T3+sugar can equal thiamine deficiency.

Ray warns about causing various deficiencies when increasing metabolic rate.
see this collection of quotes: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

Dr. Broda Barnes used and prescribed desiccated(Armour). His dietary recommendation was high fat/protein/moderate carbs. And his patients' physical and mental health improved. It was simple. No complicated diets, no closet full of supplements, no special protocols. Same for Dr. John Lowe who used and prescribed high dose T3 for thyroid hormone resistance. Ray Peat is an original thinker and scientist. I believe he wants people to find a way to live an uncomplicated, healthy life.