Progesterone Joint Pains

[Jing]

Im trying progesterone again recently, Wednesday night I took 4mg of progestene and 1mg Thursday night, in the middle of the night Wednesday my ankle was really hurting to walk on when I got up to pee, Thursday my shin pain and ankle pains which haven't been hurting me for quite some time now has started up again, also today my shoulder has been hurting again while lifting weights which has been fine for a while, I also felt quite weak while lifting today , my libido seems to be really low and erections are poor my libido and erections have been good for quite some time. Why would it cause joint pains? Lowering estrogen?

However I haven't had penis shrinkage like I got last time I tried progesterone , also for about two - three weeks I was having frequent urination which i have had for years but it was pretty much the worst it has been had to pee 7 times the other night and when I would pee it would feel like some was left over this feeling would not go away progesterone seemed to get rid of this feeling .

 

[schultz]

Have you changed anything else about your diet/life recently? Did you eat abnormally during the holidays, or drink at all?

There was a theory a while back (on the forum) that lowering cortisol caused underlying pain to become more noticeable. I sort of liked this theory, probably because it was very simple. I remember someone sort of making some points against it (might of been @ecstatichamster ) which I thought were good points at the time, but I don't recall the specifics.

The peeing thing is a bit unclear to me. Are you saying that it has improved while taking progesterone? Just the 'left over' feeling, or the frequency as well? If both, then maybe your stress hormones are actually lower, which lends a bit of weight to the lower cortisol theory.

There is also the theory that progesterone will cause a temporary rise in estrogen due to it removing estrogen from the tissue and into the blood stream. I'm not sure how much sense it makes. I guess in a person with sub-optimal heath the estrogen could once again be taken up by the tissues, possibly different tissues. Seems like a long shot to me.

And of course there is the low estrogen theory. I am critical of this one, but a lot of guys on the forum seem to think it's worth considering, including a close friend of mine in real life whom I respect. Anything is possible...

 

[Jing]

Have you changed anything else about your diet/life recently? Did you eat abnormally during the holidays, or drink at all?

There was a theory a while back (on the forum) that lowering cortisol caused underlying pain to become more noticeable. I sort of liked this theory, probably because it was very simple. I remember someone sort of making some points against it (might of been @ecstatichamster ) which I thought were good points at the time, but I don't recall the specifics.

The peeing thing is a bit unclear to me. Are you saying that it has improved while taking progesterone? Just the 'left over' feeling, or the frequency as well? If both, then maybe your stress hormones are actually lower, which lends a bit of weight to the lower cortisol theory.

There is also the theory that progesterone will cause a temporary rise in estrogen due to it removing estrogen from the tissue and into the blood stream. I'm not sure how much sense it makes. I guess in a person with sub-optimal heath the estrogen could once again be taken up by the tissues, possibly different tissues. Seems like a long shot to me.

And of course there is the low estrogen theory. I am critical of this one, but a lot of guys on the forum seem to think it's worth considering, including a close friend of mine in real life whom I respect. Anything is possible...

No nothing changed everything else the same.

Frequency is better and I have no feeling of pee being left over.

Also I have had twitching in my left eye the day after taking the first 4mg and still continues today.

 

[schultz]

No nothing changed everything else the same.

Frequency is better and I have no feeling of pee being left over.

Also I have had twitching in my left eye the day after taking the first 4mg and still continues today.

It does seem like your stress hormones have improved. I did a diet a long time ago for fun that involved basically eating only protein shakes (which seems incredibly stupid now, but you know what they say about hindsight...) and I remember that exact thing you described of needing to go pee and then feeling like I still needed to pee even after I went and being very uncomfortable. I was basically eating just protein powder, so maybe that is a clue as to what causes it? Seems like eating just protein would increase stress hormones massively. I did get ripped though, lol. The diet was only 28 days long so I probably didn't damage my body that much.......

I don't know what the twitching is about. I used to get that as well sometimes but haven't had it in a long time.

Edit: Back to your OP, I have noticed if I take a lot of progesterone my strength is diminished. It usually takes a lot for me to notice though, like 20-30mg for a few days. I use progest-e orally (just for comparison).

 

[Jing]

It does seem like your stress hormones have improved. I did a diet a long time ago for fun that involved basically eating only protein shakes (which seems incredibly stupid now, but you know what they say about hindsight...) and I remember that exact thing you described of needing to go pee and then feeling like I still needed to pee even after I went and being very uncomfortable. I was basically eating just protein powder, so maybe that is a clue as to what causes it? Seems like eating just protein would increase stress hormones massively. I did get ripped though, lol. The diet was only 28 days long so I probably didn't damage my body that much.......

I don't know what the twitching is about. I used to get that as well sometimes but haven't had it in a long time.

Edit: Back to your OP, I have noticed if I take a lot of progesterone my strength is diminished. It usually takes a lot for me to notice though, like 20-30mg for a few days. I use progest-e orally (just for comparison).

Perhaps stress hormones have gone down but wouldn't I feel less stressed with less stress hormones lol? Also how could I keep my stress hormones down without being weak while lifting and having pain?

 

[schultz]

Perhaps stress hormones have gone down but wouldn't I feel less stressed with less stress hormones lol? Also how could I keep my stress hormones down without being weak while lifting and having pain?

Some stress hormones can make you feel pretty good. I think it depends on the hormone though. Glucocorticoids can mask inflammation temporarily at the expense of various tissues. This is why I mentioned it in regards to your joint problems. If cortisol is masking joint inflammation and then you remove the cortisol I would expect the joint to hurt once again. I don't think you need to rely on stress hormones in order to life weights. Cortisol should definitely be kept to a minimum if you want to build muscle. Ephedrine does make lifting easier though, and also makes you feel good (to my original point) and I think it raises noradrenaline, though I am not certain so someone can correct me.

I am just theorizing though. I really have no idea why your joints hurt.

Edit: Regarding the lifting with pain thing. I suppose you would have to attempt to heal/reduce inflammation? Personally I have noticed that increasing endotoxin symptoms/gut irritation coincides with various pains in my body, especially when lifting. Like knee pain from squating a lot, or back pain from doing deadlifts and MP. Actually, gut irritation will cause me back pain even when I am not lifting. A few years ago a had really bad sciatica for about a month which I cleared up with 3 large doses of progesterone. Before the progesterone I could barely stand up. It has never returned.

I experimented with 6-keto progesterone a few months back, and I noticed that I could increase my lifting volume tremendously without getting sore. I didn't get any of the aches and pains that would normally accompany a weight lifting program. I was actually able to add volume to my already intense program without getting any negatives.

 

[Jing]

Some stress hormones can make you feel pretty good. I think it depends on the hormone though. Glucocorticoids can mask inflammation temporarily at the expense of various tissues. This is why I mentioned it in regards to your joint problems. If cortisol is masking joint inflammation and then you remove the cortisol I would expect the joint to hurt once again. I don't think you need to rely on stress hormones in order to life weights. Cortisol should definitely be kept to a minimum if you want to build muscle. Ephedrine does make lifting easier though, and also makes you feel good (to my original point) and I think it raises noradrenaline, though I am not certain so someone can correct me.

I am just theorizing though. I really have no idea why your joints hurt.

Edit: Regarding the lifting with pain thing. I suppose you would have to attempt to heal/reduce inflammation? Personally I have noticed that increasing endotoxin symptoms/gut irritation coincides with various pains in my body, especially when lifting. Like knee pain from squating a lot, or back pain from doing deadlifts and MP. Actually, gut irritation will cause me back pain even when I am not lifting. A few years ago a had really bad sciatica for about a month which I cleared up with 3 large doses of progesterone. Before the progesterone I could barely stand up. It has never returned.

I experimented with 6-keto progesterone a few months back, and I noticed that I could increase my lifting volume tremendously without getting sore. I didn't get any of the aches and pains that would normally accompany a weight lifting program. I was actually able to add volume to my already intense program without getting any negatives.

Might stop the progesterone for abit and test again see how it goes.

 

[schultz]

Might stop the progesterone for abit and test again see how it goes.

Hopefully things improve for you.

 

[Jing]

Hopefully things improve for you.

Cheers

 

[Noodlz2]

Have you changed anything else about your diet/life recently? Did you eat abnormally during the holidays, or drink at all?

There was a theory a while back (on the forum) that lowering cortisol caused underlying pain to become more noticeable. I sort of liked this theory, probably because it was very simple. I remember someone sort of making some points against it (might of been @ecstatichamster ) which I thought were good points at the time, but I don't recall the specifics.

The peeing thing is a bit unclear to me. Are you saying that it has improved while taking progesterone? Just the 'left over' feeling, or the frequency as well? If both, then maybe your stress hormones are actually lower, which lends a bit of weight to the lower cortisol theory.

There is also the theory that progesterone will cause a temporary rise in estrogen due to it removing estrogen from the tissue and into the blood stream. I'm not sure how much sense it makes. I guess in a person with sub-optimal heath the estrogen could once again be taken up by the tissues, possibly different tissues. Seems like a long shot to me.

And of course there is the low estrogen theory. I am critical of this one, but a lot of guys on the forum seem to think it's worth considering, including a close friend of mine in real life whom I respect. Anything is possible...

If cortisol is masking underlying pain, how would you address the pain directly?

I see the flow like this:

External irritants (pollution, poison, bacteria, viruses, etc.) or Injury (broken structure) ----> Pain(aka inflammation from healing materials, broken materials, and external irritants getting crowded together, causing a "traffic jam") ---> Increased cortisol to cope with the pain

How exactly is the cortisol addressing the pain? I know it breaks down bone and muscle. Is it using those broken down pieces to create temporary structures at the site of the inflammation to facilitate proper flow (kind of like gathering police officers from around the area to help guide traffic at an intersection with a broken traffic light)?

How would you deal with external irritants directly once they are in your body? With general Peat principles?

How is progesterone affecting cortisol? Is it somehow able to achieve the same anti-inflammation without breaking down the body like cortisol? How does it do that? Does it not address the pain at all, and simply negate cortisol?

 

[ecstatichamster]

When stress hormones fall, aches and pains sometimes become evident and also sometimes lethargy and tiredness sets in. Lower adrenaline accounts for this. Lower cortisol can stop masking inflammation. I think it gets better...progesterone also has somewhat of a painkilling and sedative effect.

Pregnenolone I think is helpful too as it can be used to manufacture additional hormones downstream and it helps lower inflammation.

 

[lampofred]

Lowering serotonin will make already existing pains more noticeable by making you more in tune with your body. Then calcium and vitamin D will help to heal the unhealed bones.