Progesterone In Men

[KMais]

Is it causing you trouble?
Is there a good reason for taking lots of teststosterone and aromatase inhbitor?
I have no experience with pharmaceutical aromatase inhibitors, but I imagine that would tip the balance away from estrogen and towards higher progesterone?

Yes. I have side effects.
My goal is to build muscles (w/test) and the AI is to control estrogen levels. Do you think that the control of estrogen makes progesterone increase?

 

[tara]

Yes. I have side effects.
My goal is to build muscles (w/test) and the AI is to control estrogen levels. Do you think that the control of estrogen makes progesterone increase?

I'm not really up with these pathways, but I think it might - probably others here know more
If you want to start your own thread (eg in the Ask for help section), you could give a bit more context and see if others have advice. There are some other people here interested in body building, though a lot of us are more interested in health.

 

[gilson dantas]

The intake of foods that reduce progesterone production such as sugar,

That idea makes any sense?? Sugar against progesterone???

 

[JohnHafterson]

Old thread but regarding cortisol and thyroid interplay. William McK Jefferies mentions "The Permissive Effect of Ingle."

Broda Barnes mentions and Peat somewhere like 2 or 3 words may have made mention.

The Role of Glucorticoid Hormones as Biological Amplifiers:

The role of glucocorticoid hormones as biological amplifiers. - PubMed - NCBI

Understood. I am just curious as to what is the mechanism of action resulting in improved thyroid utilization through cortisol. If you happen to have asked a doctor or somebody who knows the connection please post it here.
I do agree that progesterone can fill in for cortisol in hypothyroid people, but I do NOT agree that progesterone does this by increasing cortisol synthesis. Maybe a doctor on this forum can correct me and explain why / how this is wrong and cortisol is helpful directly.
Here are some other things to consider:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucocorticoid_receptor

"...Dexamethasone is an agonist, and mifepristone and cyproterone acetate are antagonists of the GR. Also, progesterone and DHEA have antagonist effects on the GR (glucocorticoid receptor)."

http://www.eje.org/content/146/6/789.full.pdf
"... Progesterone binds to the human mineralocorticoid receptor (hMR) with nearly the same
affinity as do aldosterone and cortisol, but confers only low agonistic activity. It is still unclear how aldosterone can act as a mineralocorticoid in situations with high progesterone concentrations, e.g. pregnancy. One mechanism could be conversion of progesterone to inactive compounds in hMR target tissues."

So, progesterone and DHEA are cortisol antagonists and progesterone and its metabolites are weak agonists of the aldosterone receptor in low concentrations and antagonists in high concentrations. Btw, the latter study suggests that one needs to be careful with higher progesterone doses since it may affect sodium / magnesium balance.
This effect on the mineralocorticoid "receptor" can explain how progesterone can fill in for the lack of cortisol and why dosage matters. But still, progesterone does not seem to either act like cortisol agonist or increase cortisol synthesis.

Ah I said this is only from my own experience. I was on dessicated thyroid and HC for a few years. Without HC I could not tolerate much thyroid. Small amounts would cause high adrenaline symptoms. With the HC I was able to tolerate larger thyroid doses.
The accepted wisdom rightly or wrongly of many doctors and thyroid sites is that the body needs cortisol to utilise the thyroid hormone. I found this to be correct in practise.

 

[member 6316]

has anyone used progesterone to lower serotonin levels in the brain?

 

[churchmouth]

Does ray peat actually use progesterone regularly? I don't see much of his commentary on it being useful for men, yet for some reason I call a quote from him that it is his no.1 supplement if he is stranded on an island.

 

[cyclops]

Does ray peat actually use progesterone regularly? I don't see much of his commentary on it being useful for men, yet for some reason I call a quote from him that it is his no.1 supplement if he is stranded on an island.

I'd like to know this too. Always been really confused about progesterone for men. I've heard it spoken of as the #1 most important and incredible supplement for all people, but at the same time not REALLY for men or something. Then some on this forum will confirm its not for men who are better off using pregnenolone, and then some men will say they use it (usually a small amount) and love it.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I take about 2 or 3 mg per day and it seems beneficial. I think for men the mistake is taking too much. When I took more than this I'd get drop in libido and "numbdick" syndrome.

I have high estrone, good T levels and lowish DHEA-S. I am hoping to oppose estrogen and stress hormones which is why I'm taking it.

 

[Mossy]

For the guys who are taking or have have taken progesterone, can you share the effects it had on beard growth and quality? Thanks.

 

[cyclops]

For the guys who are taking or have have taken progesterone, can you share the effects it had on beard growth and quality? Thanks.

No effect on beard growth, taking around 3mg topically per day.

 

[Mossy]

No effect on beard growth, taking around 3mg topically per day.

Hmm, ok, that is interesting. I've read on other sites, and this site, of either actual or potential for reduced beard growth. Maybe your low dose is what is preventing that. That is good news to me, because I currently have a beard and don't want to halt or hinder it with progesterone. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Progesterone]

Bump!

 

[baccheion]

Interesting, so at least we know that progesterone did NOT increase cortisol like so many people on this forum claim without having done blood tests. If you have the time and energy to do another test, I would be super interested in seeing results from 100mg oral pregnenolone daily for a month.
As far as DHEA, I think optimal doses based on extrapolation from animal studies and comparing with human studies show that DHEA is best taken in doses of <= 15mg daily, split in 2-3 doses of no more than 5mg each. I personally always take 5mg DHEA before bed since it protects form cortisol at night when the stress hormones tends to run unopposed. Combined with 5mg B6 (preferably P5P) to keep adrenalin at bay you get a nice combo for battling stress. Btw, vitamin B6 enhances 5-AR so it will boost the conversion of DHEA into DHT. In addition, B6 also blocks the cortisol, and estrogen receptors so the anti-stress effects of DHEA and B6 really amplify each other nicely.

I'm a bit confused by dose recommendations. Is 5 mg 3x/day assuming oral or percutaneous administration? Does topical application result in an 11x increase in bioavailability, making for example, 5 mg equivalent to 55 mg orally? Is the recommendation different for women? Should they avoid topical application due to higher androgenicity:estrogenicity? Does the stated 12-14 mg physiological output assume 100% bioavailability (ie, matched by 400-500 mg oral DHEA assuming 3% absorption)?

 

[RedMars]

I’m a man and I take around 11mg a day in two doses. Any more than 6mg at a time makes me a little emotional.

It makes my morning erections very strong. It makes my penis hang larger due to increased vasodilation. At the same time it’s slightly smaller in terms of volume/fullness if I don’t take a little dhea every few days.

I take 1mg dhea every few days. Any more and I get dark circles under my eyes and a floppy face/cheeks. I attribute that to estrogen. Not sure if that’s true. Would really love someone to weigh in.

Beard growth might be slower. Not dramatically so.

Muscle retention has been good even though I’m not working out atm.

Seems to really help my scalp stay supple and thus prevent shedding. Hair loss is completely stopped for two years now and even more stopped with progesterone.

Overall I’ve been doing this 6 months and it’s an instant most valuable player.

 

[Progesterone]

I’m a man and I take around 11mg a day in two doses. Any more than 6mg at a time makes me a little emotional.

It makes my morning erections very strong. It makes my penis hang larger due to increased vasodilation. At the same time it’s slightly smaller in terms of volume/fullness if I don’t take a little dhea every few days.

I take 1mg dhea every few days. Any more and I get dark circles under my eyes and a floppy face/cheeks. I attribute that to estrogen. Not sure if that’s true. Would really love someone to weigh in.

Beard growth might be slower. Not dramatically so.

Muscle retention has been good even though I’m not working out atm.

Seems to really help my scalp stay supple and thus prevent shedding. Hair loss is completely stopped for two years now and even more stopped with progesterone.

Overall I’ve been doing this 6 months and it’s an instant most valuable player.

Okay, you have my attention...

So progesterone is helping your hair loss? less shedding for sure can be attributed to progesterone?

Which prog are you using? and how are you dosing exactly? (topically, and if so, where?)

Do you find that dhea is vital in this? what happens if you don't take the dhea?

 

[RedMars]

Okay, you have my attention...

So progesterone is helping your hair loss? less shedding for sure can be attributed to progesterone?

Which prog are you using? and how are you dosing exactly? (topically, and if so, where?)

Do you find that dhea is vital in this? what happens if you don't take the dhea?

Obviously I have no way of testing for sure that the prog is doing what I think it’s doing but here’s what I experienced:

My main tool against hair loss is ten minutes of inversions a day. If I do that I don’t shed. If I stop doing it I shed. I’m sure of that. Proven time and time again.

Progesterone increases the amount of time it takes for my scalp to tighten up again after stopping inversions. I could probably get by on five minutes a day now. It’s just more supple.

Dhea seems not that essentiall I take 1 mg every three days. Not enough data to tell.

Inner arm topical progestene.

 

[Progesterone]

Obviously I have no way of testing for sure that the prog is doing what I think it’s doing but here’s what I experienced:

My main tool against hair loss is ten minutes of inversions a day. If I do that I don’t shed. If I stop doing it I shed. I’m sure of that. Proven time and time again.

Progesterone increases the amount of time it takes for my scalp to tighten up again after stopping inversions. I could probably get by on five minutes a day now. It’s just more supple.

Dhea seems not that essentiall I take 1 mg every three days. Not enough data to tell.

Inner arm topical progestene.

Thanks, very interesting stuff!

Which inversion table do you have? perhaps I need to invest in this...

Would you say it's helped to thicken your hair up as well, or just stop shedding/reduce hair loss? has your hair loss progressed at all since beginning using the inversion table?

@xetawaves

 

[Braveheart]

I’m a man and I take around 11mg a day in two doses. Any more than 6mg at a time makes me a little emotional.

It makes my morning erections very strong. It makes my penis hang larger due to increased vasodilation. At the same time it’s slightly smaller in terms of volume/fullness if I don’t take a little dhea every few days.

I take 1mg dhea every few days. Any more and I get dark circles under my eyes and a floppy face/cheeks. I attribute that to estrogen. Not sure if that’s true. Would really love someone to weigh in.

Beard growth might be slower. Not dramatically so.

Muscle retention has been good even though I’m not working out atm.

Seems to really help my scalp stay supple and thus prevent shedding. Hair loss is completely stopped for two years now and even more stopped with progesterone.

Overall I’ve been doing this 6 months and it’s an instant most valuable player.

From my experience and research that's a good dose

 

[Arnold Grape]

From my experience and research that's a good dose

That seems high, depending -- I've experimented with the topical DHEA/ prog blend and can report it is metabolized different than just dosing straight up progesterone, in roughly the same doses. Off the bat it might be androgenic, but I think it is less feminizing than taking prog it without dhea. I like this at a glance, but my experience with these types of hormones is that the effect changes over time and that you must be hyper sensitive of any symptoms which may occur. Not sure exactly what you could be trying to accomplish?

 

[RedMars]

Thanks, very interesting stuff!

Which inversion table do you have? perhaps I need to invest in this...

Would you say it's helped to thicken your hair up as well, or just stop shedding/reduce hair loss? has your hair loss progressed at all since beginning using the inversion table?

@xetawaves

I just have some basic $150 dollar one from craigslist. No boots just hook my feet in. I actually started off by doing yoga headstands - for like a year and a half. I would recommend learning those if you are physically fit enough because you can do them while travelling etc. 10 minutes a day is hard doing headstands but I used to just break it up into 2.5 minute sessions.

It has thickened it slightly. I get away with lengths now that I didn't used to. Definitely no further loss since mid-late 2016 and I was in rapid decline before that. I want to build up the will power to do 15 minutes a day I think that would actually thicken it a lot.

That seems high, depending -- I've experimented with the topical DHEA/ prog blend and can report it is metabolized different than just dosing straight up progesterone, in roughly the same doses. Off the bat it might be androgenic, but I think it is less feminizing than taking prog it without dhea. I like this at a glance, but my experience with these types of hormones is that the effect changes over time and that you must be hyper sensitive of any symptoms which may occur. Not sure exactly what you could be trying to accomplish?

I think it is high. I don't know. I get such good results in terms of vasodilation and libido and hair that it feels right. Does anyone else go this high?