Progesterone 100 Times Higher Than Estrogen

[Snowdrop]

Ray Peat (via email) "It's good to have progesterone about 100 times higher than estrogen."

I was just wondering if any of the ladies here have been able to achieve this by using Progest-e???

Thank you!!!

 

[dookie]

Look at the units progesterone and estrogen are measured in

 

[Snowdrop]

dookie, THANK YOU!!!

So progesterone has to be 100 times higher than estrogen, calculated in the SAME unit!?

I actually gave up trying to increase my progesterone levels early in 2015 using Progest-e, as I thought it was completely unattainable. When in reality my progesterone was 50 times higher than my estrogen and I was making progress

Now I'm off to order some more Progest-e...ROUND II, DING! DING!

 

[Agent207]

What about men?

 

[Snowdrop]

Agent207

I am not sure of the ratio for men. I asked Ray Peat via email and this was his answer to me (female)

I will have a look around for you, or someone better informed may be able to chime in.

 

[beachbum]

Agent207

I am not sure of the ratio for men. I asked Ray Peat via email and this was his answer to me (female)

I will have a look around for you, or someone better informed may be able to chime in.

Hello

I personally use alot of progesterone, im a 51 year old female, I use at least 300 mgs a day . I found a site that helped me understand how important progesterone is for us all, men too. Below I will paste info from site along with site.


Progesterone levels (site link)

Progesterone levels should be optimised to maintain good health. Levels vary considerably in women, rarely in men.

Progesterone plays a major role in the body...

• • It is not exclusively a female hormone
  • It is not a sex hormone, it plays no part in the secondary sexual characteristics which develop at puberty
  • It is the precursor to the two sex hormones oestrogen and testosterone
  • It is secreted primarily by the ovaries in females and the testes in men
  • Smaller amounts are produced by the adrenal glands, the brain and glial cells
  • There are no great quantitative differences between men and women, at least outside the luteal phase

It's in this last or luteal phase of the monthly cycle in women, that progesterone levels rise considerably above that found in the first half or follicular phase. Rising from less than 1ng/mL to 20-40ng/mL (serum levels). Saliva levels are much higher, see 'The Paradox' ZRT Labs below.

If a test is performed for a woman, it should always be done when progesterone peaks mid-luteal phase. This always occurs plus or minus 7 days after ovulation or before bleeding in all women. The rest of the month it's low, or rising in the early luteal or falling in the late luteal, so it's pointless taking a test at any other time.

The timing of the test is immaterial for a man.

When a test for progesterone levels is performed it is essential to realise two things...

• what unit of measurement was used... SI or conventional? The two cannot be compared unless a conversion is made
• was it a serum test or saliva test? These also cannot be compared

Women using supplemental progesterone, particularly topical, are often told that their progesterone levels are far too high. This is usually the case if a saliva test has been taken.

However this is no cause for alarm. The main concern is whether or not all symptoms of oestrogen excess have gone. If so, then the amount of progesterone used can be reduced until the optimum is found.

It is the fluctuating progesterone levels, together with the rise and fall of oestrogen, that result in changes of mood, sleep patterns, cravings/appetite, PMS etc.

It is the ratio between these two hormones which causes problems. If there is too much oestrogen in relation to progesterone then all hell can break loose!

To find the ratio divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. But make sure the unit of measurement is the same. Often progesterone is measured in ng/ml and oestrogen in pg/ml. If this is the case divide the oestrogen result by 1000 to convert it to ng.

The range given by most labs is 10-100 progesterone to 1 oestrogen. But to feel really well the ratio should be 600:1 and over.

Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. It's implicated in inflammation, cancer, endometriosis, fibroids, PMS, migraines/headaches, cravings, incontinence, generalised aches and pains, flaking nails, water retention, weight gain and more. Please see the Oestrogen Dominance, HRT and Contraceptives pages for more info.

Progesterone, on the other hand, is a calming, anti-inflammatory hormone, reversing or preventing the above symptoms.

There are now over 100 oestrogen mimics found on earth, in our food, air, water, plastics, skin care, particularly sunscreens, to name a few. All these have a bearing on our health and how we feel, men are not exempt either. For more info please see the websites Our Stolen Future and Skin Deep.

It is now more important than ever to make sure the balance between these two hormones is correct.

Here is an important article on Saliva Hormone Testing by Dr David Zava.

Click here for complete details on hormone tests and testing methods
The Progesterone levels paradox...
Salivary hormone levels are often higher than serum levels when hormones are delivered topically

One of the most perplexing issues surrounding saliva testing is the odd phenomenon that topically delivered steroids cause a dramatic increase in salivary hormones without a concomitant increase in serum levels.

For example, 30 mg topical progesterone supplementation results in an average rise in salivary levels from about 50 pg/ml (0.05 ng/ml) to 500 to 3000 pg/ml (0.5 to 3 ng/ml), a 10 to 60-fold increase.

This increase is proportionally even greater when progesterone is supplemented at 100 to 200 mg per day, a common topical dose used by many doctors, resulting in salivary progesterone levels rising to as high as 10,000 to 100,000 pg/ml (10-100 ng/ml).

Under the same conditions, serum progesterone levels only increase about 4-fold, from about 0.5 to 2-3 ng/ml. The same disproportionate increase in salivary hormone levels is seen with topical delivery of all the other steroid hormones (eg. estradiol, testosterone, DHEA, etc.). ZRT Saliva test kits

Depending on the severity of the symptoms, women should use between 100-200mg/day, men should use between 10-100mg/day. For more information on progesterone levels see 'How to use progesterone'. If in Peri-menopause, please read through this page. And if in Menopause, through this page.

Before using progesterone it's essential to read the page on Oestrogen Dominance first.

You'll find below a link to an an excellent website for converting Conventional units into SI units, which is the internationally recognised system of measurement.

"All systems of weights and measures, metric and non-metric, are linked through a network of international agreements supporting the International System of Units. The International System is called the SI, using the first two initials of its French name Systme International d'Units. The key agreement is the Treaty of the Meter (Convention du Mtre), signed in Paris on May 20, 1875. 48 nations have now signed this treaty, including all the major industrialized countries. The United States is a charter member of this metric club, having signed the original document back in 1875."SI Units for Clinical Data The following table provides factors for converting conventional units to SI units for selected clinical data.
Conversion...

• to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor
• to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor

Component
Conventional Unit
Conversion Factor
SI Unit
Progesterone
ng/mL
3.18
nmol/L
Estradiol
pg/mL
3.671
pmol/L
Estriol
ng/mL
3.467
nmol/L
Estrone
ng/dL
37
pmoI/L
Testosterone
ng/dL
0.0347
nmol/L
For some specifics on low progesterone levels click here.



Read more: Progesterone levels
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

 

[MommaBear]

Thank you for this!

 

[Brothers keeper]

Hello

I personally use alot of progesterone, im a 51 year old female, I use at least 300 mgs a day . I found a site that helped me understand how important progesterone is for us all, men too. Below I will paste info from site along with site.


Progesterone levels (site link)

Progesterone levels should be optimised to maintain good health. Levels vary considerably in women, rarely in men.

Progesterone plays a major role in the body...

• • It is not exclusively a female hormone
  • It is not a sex hormone, it plays no part in the secondary sexual characteristics which develop at puberty
  • It is the precursor to the two sex hormones oestrogen and testosterone
  • It is secreted primarily by the ovaries in females and the testes in men
  • Smaller amounts are produced by the adrenal glands, the brain and glial cells
  • There are no great quantitative differences between men and women, at least outside the luteal phase

It's in this last or luteal phase of the monthly cycle in women, that progesterone levels rise considerably above that found in the first half or follicular phase. Rising from less than 1ng/mL to 20-40ng/mL (serum levels). Saliva levels are much higher, see 'The Paradox' ZRT Labs below.

If a test is performed for a woman, it should always be done when progesterone peaks mid-luteal phase. This always occurs plus or minus 7 days after ovulation or before bleeding in all women. The rest of the month it's low, or rising in the early luteal or falling in the late luteal, so it's pointless taking a test at any other time.

The timing of the test is immaterial for a man.

When a test for progesterone levels is performed it is essential to realise two things...

• what unit of measurement was used... SI or conventional? The two cannot be compared unless a conversion is made
• was it a serum test or saliva test? These also cannot be compared

Women using supplemental progesterone, particularly topical, are often told that their progesterone levels are far too high. This is usually the case if a saliva test has been taken.

However this is no cause for alarm. The main concern is whether or not all symptoms of oestrogen excess have gone. If so, then the amount of progesterone used can be reduced until the optimum is found.

It is the fluctuating progesterone levels, together with the rise and fall of oestrogen, that result in changes of mood, sleep patterns, cravings/appetite, PMS etc.

It is the ratio between these two hormones which causes problems. If there is too much oestrogen in relation to progesterone then all hell can break loose!

To find the ratio divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. But make sure the unit of measurement is the same. Often progesterone is measured in ng/ml and oestrogen in pg/ml. If this is the case divide the oestrogen result by 1000 to convert it to ng.

The range given by most labs is 10-100 progesterone to 1 oestrogen. But to feel really well the ratio should be 600:1 and over.

Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. It's implicated in inflammation, cancer, endometriosis, fibroids, PMS, migraines/headaches, cravings, incontinence, generalised aches and pains, flaking nails, water retention, weight gain and more. Please see the Oestrogen Dominance, HRT and Contraceptives pages for more info.

Progesterone, on the other hand, is a calming, anti-inflammatory hormone, reversing or preventing the above symptoms.

There are now over 100 oestrogen mimics found on earth, in our food, air, water, plastics, skin care, particularly sunscreens, to name a few. All these have a bearing on our health and how we feel, men are not exempt either. For more info please see the websites Our Stolen Future and Skin Deep.

It is now more important than ever to make sure the balance between these two hormones is correct.

Here is an important article on Saliva Hormone Testing by Dr David Zava.

Click here for complete details on hormone tests and testing methods
The Progesterone levels paradox...
Salivary hormone levels are often higher than serum levels when hormones are delivered topically

One of the most perplexing issues surrounding saliva testing is the odd phenomenon that topically delivered steroids cause a dramatic increase in salivary hormones without a concomitant increase in serum levels.

For example, 30 mg topical progesterone supplementation results in an average rise in salivary levels from about 50 pg/ml (0.05 ng/ml) to 500 to 3000 pg/ml (0.5 to 3 ng/ml), a 10 to 60-fold increase.

This increase is proportionally even greater when progesterone is supplemented at 100 to 200 mg per day, a common topical dose used by many doctors, resulting in salivary progesterone levels rising to as high as 10,000 to 100,000 pg/ml (10-100 ng/ml).

Under the same conditions, serum progesterone levels only increase about 4-fold, from about 0.5 to 2-3 ng/ml. The same disproportionate increase in salivary hormone levels is seen with topical delivery of all the other steroid hormones (eg. estradiol, testosterone, DHEA, etc.). ZRT Saliva test kits

Depending on the severity of the symptoms, women should use between 100-200mg/day, men should use between 10-100mg/day. For more information on progesterone levels see 'How to use progesterone'. If in Peri-menopause, please read through this page. And if in Menopause, through this page.

Before using progesterone it's essential to read the page on Oestrogen Dominance first.

You'll find below a link to an an excellent website for converting Conventional units into SI units, which is the internationally recognised system of measurement.

"All systems of weights and measures, metric and non-metric, are linked through a network of international agreements supporting the International System of Units. The International System is called the SI, using the first two initials of its French name Systme International d'Units. The key agreement is the Treaty of the Meter (Convention du Mtre), signed in Paris on May 20, 1875. 48 nations have now signed this treaty, including all the major industrialized countries. The United States is a charter member of this metric club, having signed the original document back in 1875."SI Units for Clinical Data The following table provides factors for converting conventional units to SI units for selected clinical data.
Conversion...

• to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor
• to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor

Component
Conventional Unit
Conversion Factor
SI Unit
Progesterone
ng/mL
3.18
nmol/L
Estradiol
pg/mL
3.671
pmol/L
Estriol
ng/mL
3.467
nmol/L
Estrone
ng/dL
37
pmoI/L
Testosterone
ng/dL
0.0347
nmol/L
For some specifics on low progesterone levels click here.



Read more: Progesterone levels
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

Wow!!! Thank you for this. So this could even help in an autoimmune situation, I'm gathering

 

[Brothers keeper]

Hello

I personally use alot of progesterone, im a 51 year old female, I use at least 300 mgs a day . I found a site that helped me understand how important progesterone is for us all, men too. Below I will paste info from site along with site.


Progesterone levels (site link)

Progesterone levels should be optimised to maintain good health. NoLevels vary considerably in women, rarely in men.

Progesterone plays a major role in the body...

• • It is not exclusively a female hormone
  • It is not a sex hormone, it plays no part in the secondary sexual characteristics which develop at puberty
  • It is the precursor to the two sex hormones oestrogen and testosterone
  • It is secreted primarily by the ovaries in females and the testes in men
  • Smaller amounts are produced by the adrenal glands, the brain and glial cells
  • There are no great quantitative differences between men and women, at least outside the luteal phase

It's in this last or luteal phase of the monthly cycle in women, that progesterone levels rise considerably above that found in the first half or follicular phase. Rising from less than 1ng/mL to 20-40ng/mL (serum levels). Saliva levels are much higher, see 'The Paradox' ZRT Labs below.

If a test is performed for a woman, it should always be done when progesterone peaks mid-luteal phase. This always occurs plus or minus 7 days after ovulation or before bleeding in all women. The rest of the month it's low, or rising in the early luteal or falling in the late luteal, so it's pointless taking a test at any other time.

The timing of the test is immaterial for a man.

When a test for progesterone levels is performed it is essential to realise two things...

• what unit of measurement was used... SI or conventional? The two cannot be compared unless a conversion is made
• was it a serum test or saliva test? These also cannot be compared

Women using supplemental progesterone, particularly topical, are often told that their progesterone levels are far too high. This is usually the case if a saliva test has been taken.

However this is no cause for alarm. The main concern is whether or not all symptoms of oestrogen excess have gone. If so, then the amount of progesterone used can be reduced until the optimum is found.

It is the fluctuating progesterone levels, together with the rise and fall of oestrogen, that result in changes of mood, sleep patterns, cravings/appetite, PMS etc.

It is the ratio between these two hormones which causes problems. If there is too much oestrogen in relation to progesterone then all hell can break loose!

To find the ratio divide the progesterone result by the oestrogen result. But make sure the unit of measurement is the same. Often progesterone is measured in ng/ml and oestrogen in pg/ml. If this is the case divide the oestrogen result by 1000 to convert it to ng.

The range given by most labs is 10-100 progesterone to 1 oestrogen. But to feel really well the ratio should be 600:1 and over.

Oestrogen is an excitatory hormone, causing cells to divide and multiply, including fat cells. It's implicated in inflammation, cancer, endometriosis, fibroids, PMS, migraines/headaches, cravings, incontinence, generalised aches and pains, flaking nails, water retention, weight gain and more. Please see the Oestrogen Dominance, HRT and Contraceptives pages for more info.

Progesterone, on the other hand, is a calming, anti-inflammatory hormone, reversing or preventing the above symptoms.

There are now over 100 oestrogen mimics found on earth, in our food, air, water, plastics, skin care, particularly sunscreens, to name a few. All these have a bearing on our health and how we feel, men are not exempt either. For more info please see the websites Our Stolen Future and Skin Deep.

It is now more important than ever to make sure the balance between these two hormones is correct.

Here is an important article on Saliva Hormone Testing by Dr David Zava.

Click here for complete details on hormone tests and testing methods
The Progesterone levels paradox...
Salivary hormone levels are often higher than serum levels when hormones are delivered topically

One of the most perplexing issues surrounding saliva testing is the odd phenomenon that topically delivered steroids cause a dramatic increase in salivary hormones without a concomitant increase in serum levels.

For example, 30 mg topical progesterone supplementation results in an average rise in salivary levels from about 50 pg/ml (0.05 ng/ml) to 500 to 3000 pg/ml (0.5 to 3 ng/ml), a 10 to 60-fold increase.

This increase is proportionally even greater when progesterone is supplemented at 100 to 200 mg per day, a common topical dose used by many doctors, resulting in salivary progesterone levels rising to as high as 10,000 to 100,000 pg/ml (10-100 ng/ml).

Under the same conditions, serum progesterone levels only increase about 4-fold, from about 0.5 to 2-3 ng/ml. The same disproportionate increase in salivary hormone levels is seen with topical delivery of all the other steroid hormones (eg. estradiol, testosterone, DHEA, etc.). ZRT Saliva test kits

Depending on the severity of the symptoms, women should use between 100-200mg/day, men should use between 10-100mg/day. For more information on progesterone levels see 'How to use progesterone'. If in Peri-menopause, please read through this page. And if in Menopause, through this page.

Before using progesterone it's essential to read the page on Oestrogen Dominance first.

You'll find below a link to an an excellent website for converting Conventional units into SI units, which is the internationally recognised system of measurement.

"All systems of weights and measures, metric and non-metric, are linked through a network of international agreements supporting the International System of Units. The International System is called the SI, using the first two initials of its French name Systme International d'Units. The key agreement is the Treaty of the Meter (Convention du Mtre), signed in Paris on May 20, 1875. 48 nations have now signed this treaty, including all the major industrialized countries. The United States is a charter member of this metric club, having signed the original document back in 1875."SI Units for Clinical Data The following table provides factors for converting conventional units to SI units for selected clinical data.
Conversion...

• to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor
• to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor

Component
Conventional Unit
Conversion Factor
SI Unit
Progesterone
ng/mL
3.18
nmol/L
Estradiol
pg/mL
3.671
pmol/L
Estriol
ng/mL
3.467
nmol/L
Estrone
ng/dL
37
pmoI/L
Testosterone
ng/dL
0.0347
nmol/L
For some specifics on low progesterone levels click here.



Read more: Progesterone levels
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

wow. This information is amazing. So, I'm thinking this could really help a person with an autoimmune condition...

 

[Nina]

wow. This information is amazing. So, I'm thinking this could really help a person with an autoimmune condition...

Last year I had severe eczema (which is apparently an autoimmune skin condition) on my hands, back and legs. I tried a lot of things. Progest-e definitely helped.

I'd say the eczema is not gone now, but it is controlled. It is now a small unnoticeable patch.

 

[beachbum]

In that site I posted she says progesterone to estrogen ratio should be 600 to 1. The women who created that site tells her story about how she was suicidal and other crazy symptoms. It takes alot time and progesterone with my experience. I am actually thinking of increasing mine to see if I improve. I feel I am in an holding pattern because I know when I forget to dose I see problems especially more migraines, I had this Friday. I also noticed I needed to change my RP protocol which seems to trigger the migraines some, not quite sure. I do feel I need an exercise routine which I will be starting. I also believe the gut has a big part of the migraine problem to so extent. Just my experience and opinion.

 

[StrongMom]

Ray Peat (via email) "It's good to have progesterone about 100 times higher than estrogen."

I was just wondering if any of the ladies here have been able to achieve this by using Progest-e???

Thank you!!!

Did he say this for blood tests for saliva tests? You know there is a difference; tissue-bound estrogen tends to be significantly higher than blood estrogen most of the time.

@beachbum

Are you still taking 300 mg progesterone per day? Progest-e or those progesterone creams? If Progest-e, orally?

I'm thinking of doing a high dose progest-e experiment, just trying to decide on the dosage. About two years ago, I had an experiment of that kind, but had to stop. Now that I have more knowledge and experience, I will experiment again. Last time I did 25 drops 5 times a day, but was not taking thyroid at the time.

 

[Mito]

Did he say this for blood tests for saliva tests? You know there is a difference; tissue-bound estrogen tends to be significantly higher than blood estrogen most of the time.

He actually just repeated this on the latest KMUD interview (KMUD: 4-21-17 Endocrinology (Part 2)). He also said that if your using progesterone, the progesterone will knock out the estrogen binding protein liberating the estrogen into the blood stream. So he said blood testing for estrogen is meaningful if using progesterone.

 

[sladerunner69]

What is the recommended dosage or men suffering from low libido, depression or hairloss? What are the signs to look for? I hear that the effects can creep up on you as long as 2 or 3 days after the dosage, and that latent hyperthyroidism can be an issue because progesterone up regulates thyroid so well.

 

[Snowdrop]

Did he say this for blood tests for saliva tests?

Blood test :)

 

[StrongMom]

He actually just repeated this on the latest KMUD interview (KMUD: 4-21-17 Endocrinology (Part 2)). He also said that if your using progesterone, the progesterone will knock out the estrogen binding protein liberating the estrogen into the blood stream. So he said blood testing for estrogen is meaningful if using progesterone.

@Snowdrop

Interesting, thank you!

 

[tomisonbottom]

Hello

I personally use alot of progesterone, im a 51 year old female, I use at least 300 mgs a day . I found a site that helped me understand how important progesterone is for us all, men too. Below I will paste info from site along with site.


Progesterone levels (site link)

Wow, do you still take that much?

have you tried progest-E and what were your results with that?

 

[tomisonbottom]

Ray Peat (via email) "It's good to have progesterone about 100 times higher than estrogen."

I was just wondering if any of the ladies here have been able to achieve this by using Progest-e???

Thank you!!!

I thought he had said 20 times higher.....was this in a personal email to you?

 

[InChristAlone]

I thought Peat recommended physiological doses?

 

[Snowdrop]

I thought he had said 20 times higher.....was this in a personal email to you?

This information was via personal email.

I thought Peat recommended physiological doses?

Ray Peat was advising me on the most optimal progesterone to estrogen ratio for FERTILITY.

Further emails from Ray Peat conclude that AT LEAST a 50 to 1 ratio is desirable for fertility.