Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)

[haidut]

post 113098

post 101989

post 101984 Why do you compare Progestene with an oral product like Prometrium though , and not a "Peat approved" product like Progest-E ?

Because the comparison that ultimately matters is the amount of progesterone you absorb, not how much you are buying, right? Btw, some people on the forum take Progestene orally so I thought the comparison is somewhat valid.
The topical products on the market are mostly junk and this is the reason doctors only prescribe oral micronized progesterone or vaginal/rectal suppositories. If there was a comparable topical product I would be using it as a baseline.
The reason I don't compare Progestene to Ray's product is that I don't want this to turn into an argument who has the better topical product. I encourage people to try both and stick with the one that makes them feel better. If that means less sales for me and more for Ray then I have no problem with that. The man deserves it.

Hello Haidut,

Just curious about the mention of oral intake of your products (Progestene and Pansterone- I see you have responded to several posts about taking them orally). Can you briefly explain when/why you recommend oral vs. topical? Is topical overall safer over an extended period of time because of liver processing? I am all for taking it topically, but just want to make sure I know if there are situations when oral is preferred.

Thank you-

The steroid supplements like StressNon, Pansterone and Progestene are best taken topically IMO since it lets the skin convert some of them into other steroids along the way. DHEA will get a very good conversion into DHT when used topically and some of the progesterone can have the same fate. The rest of the supplements probably have the same overall effect regardless of route of administration.
There isn't really an optimal rule for oral/topical so whatever works for you is what should be done.

 

[Kray]

Ok, thanks for the response!

 

[tomisonbottom]

post 94455

With these topical hormone products, I've read that you should alternate different places on your body where you apply them. Is there any truth to that?

Can you please provide some references for that claim?

It's what is usually recommended for applying progesterone cream. Dr. John Lee's website is one example. They claim that applying it too often to the same sight causes saturation, so you should rotate application sights.

I use Progest-E now, and generally take it orally. But I was curious whether it was possible for saturation to happen when applying it (or other hormones) topically. Or if it's bogus.

Never heard of saturation with progesterone. Since there is no negative feedback mechanism for pregnenolone, DHEA or porgesterone the excess will end up converting into something else down the pathways. The studies I posted above show high saliva progesterone from topical application on the same skin spot, so not sure saturation can occur if progesterone is distributed so widely throughout the body.
The only time I think alternation is applicable IMHO is if there is local skin irritation.

It's really strange that they would recommend doing it then. I have bottles of both topical progesterone and pregnenolone creams, and the directions for both say to alternate the application sights in order to avoid saturation of tissues. Maybe this is some left-over myth prior to more recent studies.

Anyway, changing the subject: I noticed that the studies cited above mentioned saliva testing for hormones so I was wondering about your opinion on the best way to monitor hormone levels - saliva or serum.

I think both methods can be helpful but the blood test can be misleading since very often it does not correlate with tissue levels. DHEA is perfect example but so it progesterone since the blood tests after topical application show little or no change in plasma levels but very high levels in saliva. This makes sense since the steroids are needed in tissues rather than floating in the blood. Ideally, I would do both blood and saliva testing on the same day to get a better idea. The saliva tests are also much cheaper and I think there are even kits you can use at home and not mail anything at the lab.

Haidut, Do you know if there's a reliable lab that does home testing via mail for blood and saliva tests? I googled some, but don't know if I can trust results from just anyone that shows up on a search engine.
I just got my labs through my Dr. and my TSH was alarmingly high. So, I would like to do routine testing without having to wait months and "sell' my Dr. on the idea of continually testing TSH every time.

 

[haidut]

post 113489

post 94455

With these topical hormone products, I've read that you should alternate different places on your body where you apply them. Is there any truth to that?

Can you please provide some references for that claim?

It's what is usually recommended for applying progesterone cream. Dr. John Lee's website is one example. They claim that applying it too often to the same sight causes saturation, so you should rotate application sights.

I use Progest-E now, and generally take it orally. But I was curious whether it was possible for saturation to happen when applying it (or other hormones) topically. Or if it's bogus.

Never heard of saturation with progesterone. Since there is no negative feedback mechanism for pregnenolone, DHEA or porgesterone the excess will end up converting into something else down the pathways. The studies I posted above show high saliva progesterone from topical application on the same skin spot, so not sure saturation can occur if progesterone is distributed so widely throughout the body.
The only time I think alternation is applicable IMHO is if there is local skin irritation.

It's really strange that they would recommend doing it then. I have bottles of both topical progesterone and pregnenolone creams, and the directions for both say to alternate the application sights in order to avoid saturation of tissues. Maybe this is some left-over myth prior to more recent studies.

Anyway, changing the subject: I noticed that the studies cited above mentioned saliva testing for hormones so I was wondering about your opinion on the best way to monitor hormone levels - saliva or serum.

I think both methods can be helpful but the blood test can be misleading since very often it does not correlate with tissue levels. DHEA is perfect example but so it progesterone since the blood tests after topical application show little or no change in plasma levels but very high levels in saliva. This makes sense since the steroids are needed in tissues rather than floating in the blood. Ideally, I would do both blood and saliva testing on the same day to get a better idea. The saliva tests are also much cheaper and I think there are even kits you can use at home and not mail anything at the lab.

Haidut, Do you know if there's a reliable lab that does home testing via mail for blood and saliva tests? I googled some, but don't know if I can trust results from just anyone that shows up on a search engine.
I just got my labs through my Dr. and my TSH was alarmingly high. So, I would like to do routine testing without having to wait months and "sell' my Dr. on the idea of continually testing TSH every time.

I think you can buy testing kits from Amazon for getting tested over mail. Not sure about TSH but you can search. There are quite a few direct consumer labs that you use to order tests online and then get an order to go to any large lab provider like LabCorp and Quest. If you search the forum you will find a list of them.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 94454

Also - did you make sure the plastic containers you use are not going to be leached/degraded by the DMSO?

Best,
J

We use several suppliers, but the main ones are SigmaAldrich and MPBio.com, and they all provide pharma-grade DMSO. The supplier for the bottles has states that they are virtually leak-less even for storing something like 100% ethanol, which can leach plastic more than DMSO.

Do you think the DMSO and ethanol in the product is safe for pregnant women? Thanks!

 

[haidut]

post 114691

post 94454

Also - did you make sure the plastic containers you use are not going to be leached/degraded by the DMSO?

Best,
J

We use several suppliers, but the main ones are SigmaAldrich and MPBio.com, and they all provide pharma-grade DMSO. The supplier for the bottles has states that they are virtually leak-less even for storing something like 100% ethanol, which can leach plastic more than DMSO.

Do you think the DMSO and ethanol in the product is safe for pregnant women? Thanks!

I can't provide advice for pregnant women or children as DMSO has not really been used by those groups and tested for safety. A doctor would know best, if at all, but the publicly available data is very limited.

 

[ThunderSpank]

post 115128

post 114691

post 94454

Also - did you make sure the plastic containers you use are not going to be leached/degraded by the DMSO?

Best,
J

We use several suppliers, but the main ones are SigmaAldrich and MPBio.com, and they all provide pharma-grade DMSO. The supplier for the bottles has states that they are virtually leak-less even for storing something like 100% ethanol, which can leach plastic more than DMSO.

Do you think the DMSO and ethanol in the product is safe for pregnant women? Thanks!

I can't provide advice for pregnant women or children as DMSO has not really been used by those groups and tested for safety. A doctor would know best, if at all, but the publicly available data is very limited.

Thank you very much for your time!!!

 

[johnwester130]

can men take this

or will i turn into a eunuch

 

[answersfound]

post 115991 can men take this

or will i turn into a eunuch

Say bye to your libido.

 

[Vinero]

Not true. If small amounts of pansterone are added a massive increase in libido results IME. And progesterone only reduces libido by itself in massive amounts, like 1 bottle of progest-e in a couple of days. If taken 100 mg or less it actually increases libido for me, even without DHEA.

 

[ecstatichamster]

it can destroy your libido in some cases. It can free up estrogen that is tied up in the tissues and cause a lot of problems for some. In my experience.

 

[Vinero]

That's a good thing actually, Progesterone frees the estrogen that is active in the tissues to leave the body, and progesterone also inhibits new synthesis of estrogen. What you don't want is for estrogen to be active in tissues. I find progesterone to have a profound anti-shock effect and when taken with coffee it amplifies the effect since caffeine also increases progesterone activity.

 

[johnwester130]

i thought only men needed progesterone though ?

 

[Vinero]

Yes only men need progesterone. All men are born with a natural progesterone deficiency, and we need to supplement megadoses progesterone for the rest of our lives, otherwise we get cancer.

 

[hmac]

Given that progesterone antagonises aldosterone, promoting natriuresis, is there some chance that it's use could result in a sodium deficiency in the context of diet which didn't provide an abundance of this mineral? Or rather, would it be rational to increase sodium intake while using progesterone?

 

[tara]

post 116483 Given that progesterone antagonises aldosterone, promoting natriuresis, is there some chance that it's use could result in a sodium deficiency in the context of diet which didn't provide an abundance of this mineral? Or rather, would it be rational to increase sodium intake while using progesterone?

It wouldn't surprise me if sodium requirements go up bit, but I'm relying on tastes and cravings to guide me on how much. I occasionally have trouble if I ignore/override tastes and cravings and under-eat salt.

On the other hand, sodium is lost more easily while hpothyroid, so itf the progesterone helps raise metabolism, this may eventually help counter that effect?

 

[hmac]

post 116580

post 116483 Given that progesterone antagonises aldosterone, promoting natriuresis, is there some chance that it's use could result in a sodium deficiency in the context of diet which didn't provide an abundance of this mineral? Or rather, would it be rational to increase sodium intake while using progesterone?

It wouldn't surprise me if sodium requirements go up bit, but I'm relying on tastes and cravings to guide me on how much. I occasionally have trouble if I ignore/override tastes and cravings and under-eat salt.

On the other hand, sodium is lost more easily while hpothyroid, so itf the progesterone helps raise metabolism, this may eventually help counter that effect?

Thanks - yeh I think the point about it raising metabolism therefore making it easier to hold on to sodium is probably accurate.

 

[treelady]

Haidut, I am confused... I just got the progestene I ordered from your Ideal Labs site.

The label on the image on your IdeaLabs site says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients DMSO, ethanol. And when I click on Progestene on your site it takes me here where the first entry you made on this post says those are the ingredients.

The label on the bottle of progestene I received says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients Organic olive oil, tocopherols.

I did NOT get what I ordered!!! If you changed the ingredients you should have changed the picture of the bottle on your site and the link to a post here explaining the ingredients of the new formula. I am very disappointed. It's not that I would not have ordered the new formula, but this is so unprofessional to get something I didn't order. How can I trust that the ingredients are what is listed? I put my confidence and trust in you and you let me down.

 

[jb116]

post 118701 Haidut, I am confused... I just got the progestene I ordered from your Ideal Labs site.

The label on the image on your IdeaLabs site says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients DMSO, ethanol. And when I click on Progestene on your site it takes me here where the first entry you made on this post says those are the ingredients.

The label on the bottle of progestene I received says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients Organic olive oil, tocopherols.

I did NOT get what I ordered!!! If you changed the ingredients you should have changed the picture of the bottle on your site and the link to a post here explaining the ingredients of the new formula. I am very disappointed. It's not that I would not have ordered the new formula, but this is so unprofessional to get something I didn't order. How can I trust that the ingredients are what is listed? I put my confidence and trust in you and you let me down.

oh boy. It's not the end of the world. I'm sure it was an error, may be an older label or something. It's not a con job, so please take a breath.

 

[answersfound]

Haidut, I am confused... I just got the progestene I ordered from your Ideal Labs site.

The label on the image on your IdeaLabs site says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients DMSO, ethanol. And when I click on Progestene on your site it takes me here where the first entry you made on this post says those are the ingredients.

The label on the bottle of progestene I received says the ingredients are progesterone, 20mg and other ingredients Organic olive oil, tocopherols.

I did NOT get what I ordered!!! If you changed the ingredients you should have changed the picture of the bottle on your site and the link to a post here explaining the ingredients of the new formula. I am very disappointed. It's not that I would not have ordered the new formula, but this is so unprofessional to get something I didn't order. How can I trust that the ingredients are what is listed? I put my confidence and trust in you and you let me down.

I'm sure it was an accident.