Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)

[DaveFoster]

Wow that's a lot. Was that with progestene or another type?

It was micronized progesterone powder. I don't think it absorbed very well. Maybe 10% absorbed, but that's a guess.

 

[Dhair]

It was micronized progesterone powder. I don't think it absorbed very well. Maybe 10% absorbed, but that's a guess.

By absorbed, I'm assuming you mean orally, not transdermally?

 

[DaveFoster]

By absorbed, I'm assuming you mean orally, not transdermally?

Sublingually.

 

[Waynish]

Would like to know ASAP if anyone has used this as a contraceptive. If so how much - and at what timings? Would 6 days out work? All this research and it isn't obvious whether progesterone can be used as a "plan B" at any dosage...

Peat answered me on this. He doesn't think it would work as plan B, but "people" have gotten it to work with planned prevention.

 

[haidut]

Can you clarify what you are referring to? Because at long natural health: Progest-E Instructions they make a clear distinction between bio-identical progesterone and wild yam.

"Warning: Progesterone and Wild Yam (Dioscorea) are not the same. Do not confuse progesterone with unaltered wild yam (dioscorea). The human body cannot convert wild yam to progesterone. The body makes progesterone only from cholesterol. The conversion of wild yam to natural progesterone must be done in a chemical factory. So all "progesterone" products labeled "wild yam" (underived) are bogus. Unaltered wild yam, in sufficient amounts, is toxic. Dr. Peat's Progest E Complex contains Natural progesterone derived from wild yam 3 mg per drop."

I think maybe you're thinking that "Wild Yam", and "Biodentical progesterone derived from wild yam" are the same, but it appears they're 2 different things. Can you please give me a reference to the idea that there are "Crap" ingredients in it?
Thanks!


@haidut
Curious about the progest-E issue; do you know if it's been effective in your experience........as in, do you know of anyone who did blood work and verified the current formulation of progest-E raises blood levels? Wondering because I gave some to my mother in law and she didn't have a great experience, but now I know she might have needed to take a higher starting dose.

And follow up question: I know when it comes to estrogen blood levels aren't that helpful for accessing progress but you said taking progestene raised your progesterone levels, so it sounds like you think there's value in progesterone blood testing even if doesn't tell you what's in the tissues?

I think there is value in measuring blood levels when supplementing with progesterone simply to measure if it is being absorbed systemically. The issue of blood levels != tissue levels still persist, but given that people experience sedation from all types of topical progesterone shows it reaches the brain at least, where it matters the most.

 

[haidut]

Peat answered me on this. He doesn't think it would work as plan B, but "people" have gotten it to work with planned prevention.

Strong androgen agonists, like DHT, androsterone and other such derivatives can work as plan B. In fact, a few of them are in clinical trials as emergency contraceptives. Not sure of doses but I think 5mg - 10mg of a steroid as strong as DHT would work.

 

[Owen B]

i started with about 10mgs a day (Progestene) about a week ago. Am not getting drowsy on it and I'm not especially worried about libido issues because I'm not looking to get involved with anyone at this point. I'm interested in better mood and treating tissue depletion and muscle wasting issues.

If I can get good healthy-catabolic effects in the short run, well, I'll live to fight another day. I'll be interested in trying Haidut's prog/DHEA product at some point because it would be good to know how that DHEA affects me used topically. I can always try a little Androsterone at some point too.

But a very interesting thing happened the other day after I dosed 4 mgs and used a couple drops of Lapodin on my wrist. My issues are multiple trauma (family plus a brain insult when I was young). So let's start with the assumption that trauma is the near ultimate in oxidative stress (cancer and tumors are up there) and let me say that because trauma presents such a block to oxidative uptake almost every chemical, etc I take "hits the wall". IOW, that oxidative brake is very hard to dislodge and so taking substances usually trigger that brake and retranslate it. They'll trigger the symptoms and I'll feel worse.

10-20 minutes later I had a "seizure". Directly in the brain. Blacked out momentarily. But it didn't cause a re-trigger. Because I immediately felt deeper breathing and calm. My mood was better for two days. The progesterone, Lapodin, bag breathing got past the brake. That just never happens.

It's clear to me that the increased oxygenation definitely triggered the block and that that block was associated with the original brain insult. (I fell off the top of a slide when I was about 6). If a person has an emotionally-based family trauma, he will develop many of the physical symptoms of maladaptation: immune problems, GI issues, fatigue of all kinds, but such a reaction as this, so intense and violent, could only have come from the fall.

That shows that that injury has remained as a state-bound pattern of adaptation from day one. Which most doctors and neurologists refuse to believe. Trauma is just not diagnosed. The only time a physical trauma is diagnosed is if a person falls off the roof of a five story building. Then it's "obvious" to everybody. Though that doesn't mean they have anything of value to treat it with. As is typical of medical model thinking, the system seems only able to respond to extreme situations. For people who have TBI in the mild to moderate range there's nothing. (To say nothing of the fact that emotionally-based trauma is in the same no-man's-land. Social isolation shows up in the same area of the brain, whether the trauma is emotional or physical).

Wouldn't it be a hoot if these chemicals end up successfully treating a condition for which the medical (and psychological) system has nothing, theoretical or practical?

 

[lollipop]

i started with about 10mgs a day (Progestene) about a week ago. Am not getting drowsy on it and I'm not especially worried about libido issues because I'm not looking to get involved with anyone at this point. I'm interested in better mood and treating tissue depletion and muscle wasting issues.

If I can get good healthy-catabolic effects in the short run, well, I'll live to fight another day. I'll be interested in trying Haidut's prog/DHEA product at some point because it would be good to know how that DHEA affects me used topically. I can always try a little Androsterone at some point too.

But a very interesting thing happened the other day after I dosed 4 mgs and used a couple drops of Lapodin on my wrist. My issues are multiple trauma (family plus a brain insult when I was young). So let's start with the assumption that trauma is the near ultimate in oxidative stress (cancer and tumors are up there) and let me say that because trauma presents such a block to oxidative uptake almost every chemical, etc I take "hits the wall". IOW, that oxidative brake is very hard to dislodge and so taking substances usually trigger that brake and retranslate it. They'll trigger the symptoms and I'll feel worse.

10-20 minutes later I had a "seizure". Directly in the brain. Blacked out momentarily. But it didn't cause a re-trigger. Because I immediately felt deeper breathing and calm. My mood was better for two days. The progesterone, Lapodin, bag breathing got past the brake. That just never happens.

It's clear to me that the increased oxygenation definitely triggered the block and that that block was associated with the original brain insult. (I fell off the top of a slide when I was about 6). If a person has an emotionally-based family trauma, he will develop many of the physical symptoms of maladaptation: immune problems, GI issues, fatigue of all kinds, but such a reaction as this, so intense and violent, could only have come from the fall.

That shows that that injury has remained as a state-bound pattern of adaptation from day one. Which most doctors and neurologists refuse to believe. Trauma is just not diagnosed. The only time a physical trauma is diagnosed is if a person falls off the roof of a five story building. Then it's "obvious" to everybody. Though that doesn't mean they have anything of value to treat it with. As is typical of medical model thinking, the system seems only able to respond to extreme situations. For people who have TBI in the mild to moderate range there's nothing. (To say nothing of the fact that emotionally-based trauma is in the same no-man's-land. Social isolation shows up in the same area of the brain, whether the trauma is emotional or physical).

Wouldn't it be a hoot if these chemicals end up successfully treating a condition for which the medical (and psychological) system has nothing, theoretical or practical?

@Owen B this is amazing! Soooo happy for you. Please continue to update us with your progress.

 

[Mhouse]

Interesting, I had the same experience with progesterone initially when I was first trying it. I guess it shows that we have a deficiency in it as even a small dose would give me fever and flu symptoms. But after a few days that dissipated and now I can take hundreds of mgs like you and I get only positive effects like better mood and more energy.

Interesting. Could you please elaborate on why the occurrence of such symptoms would indicate a deficiency? I'm trying to learn to interpret symptoms, and this kind of information would be valuable. (Instinctively, I wouldn't have thought that flu-like symptoms were a sign of a deficiency that needed correction, but rather a sign of something opposite.)

 

[tara]

And of course, I wanted to differentiate myself from others selling the same formulation as Peat.

I have no objection all at all to the product you are making and selling, and I know many people find it valuable. I just wanted to note that I don't think Peat is selling a formulation, and I'm not aware of anyone selling the formulation Peat patented.
It's possible that Peat would be pleased if someone would start making it, though only he could answer that.

Just looked up Progest-E. States it is made with yam extract???

I still cannot believe Progest-e is now made with Yam extract. I do not think Ray Peat used it in his original formula.

I believe this is legitimate. Progesterone is manufactured from the yam extract diosgenin. The human body can't make use of the diosgenin itself (harmful) - it needs to be converted to progesterone by the manufacturing process. As far as I know the progesterone Peat used may have been made from diosgenin from wild yams. Progesterone made in a chemical lab has to be made from something, whenter it's this diosgenin form wild yams or from some other plant or from some other substrate.

Would like to know ASAP if anyone has used this as a contraceptive. If so how much - and at what timings? Would 6 days out work? All this research and it isn't obvious whether progesterone can be used as a "plan B" at any dosage...

I think progesterone is not an abortifacient like estrogen-based birth control pills. I think it works by signalling that the body is already pregnant, and therefore not available to support another pregnancy.
There is a thread about using it as a contraceptive - you could read up about details. Probably safest to use in conjunction with a barrier method.

 

[haidut]

Interesting. Could you please elaborate on why the occurrence of such symptoms would indicate a deficiency? I'm trying to learn to interpret symptoms, and this kind of information would be valuable. (Instinctively, I wouldn't have thought that flu-like symptoms were a sign of a deficiency that needed correction, but rather a sign of something opposite.)

Well, it is very pro-thyroid so even a small dose would stimulate both thyroid synthesis and conversion of T4 into T3. In some people, sudden increase in T3 can produce mild fever.

 

[cihans]

I ordered progestene especially for my low progesterone, blood tests confirms it too. See picture attached. my question is how many drops is enough to up my progesterone levels in range. Blood tests very easy and cheap in my country Í'll do blood tests every month to check if its in range. Another question is after reaching normal blood levels what is the maintenance dose from progestene. Thank you guys/girls...

 

[ddjd]

Blood tests very easy and cheap in my country Í'll do blood tests every month to check if its in range.

where do you live?

 

[johnwester130]

what about a high strength progesterone product ? Onasnatural sell 3%, 10% and 20% .

 

[cihans]

Romania-Bulgaria in eastern Europe, also my sister owns a private lab. so its very cheap for me.

 

[cihans]

what about a high strength progesterone product ? Onasnatural sell 3%, 10% and 20% .

I believe and read a lot in this forum and others my conclusion is cream products are hard to scale and dosage. Thats my reason to turn Progestene and also founder of product @haidut is around if I need to ask him something. If its makes sense.

 

[Emily Cahill]

I have recently started dosing 12 drops of progestene at night (second time started after one cycle) started dosing after ovulation. First three nights I slept very solidly but now, as before, I am waking at exactly 3.30am with intense restless legs (full body sensation) it feels like a mild electric current is running through me. Similar to panic attack but breathing and heart rate are fine and I don’t feel anxious. Just wide awake.

It’s resulting in tiredness during the day as well. Do I just need a snack next to the bed? Or is something else at play?

 

[Elize]

Emily I have low levels of cortisol and use Thyroid hormone - a compounded T4 taken at 6am then at 7:30 am I take my synthetic T3 by Paddock. At lunch time I take more T3 and T4 again at 5pm. due to porcine alergy in Meds like Armour, Nature Throid etc I am not able to use them. I experience restless legs also around 3 or 4 am. I then chew about a quarter of my 5mcg of T3 and within a few minutes my body calms down. I keep quarters of 5mcg T3 next to my bed and take it with water - if needed. Have you thought of trying T3 for that. I want to try Progesterone but see that it also lowers cortisol and worry about that. Zinc, magnesium, taurine, DHEA, progesterone and a host of other meds all lower cortisol and intensifies my restless legs. I can use topical magnesium as that also seems to help. When i feel the tingling at the start of the restless legs. I do the topical magnesium, take T3 and take a tablespoon of Blackstrap molasses - sulfate free. I also find it helps me when I go to bed at 10 pm to drink a glass of warmed macadamia milk mixed with a tablespoon of blackstrap molasses.

 

[alywest]

@Emily Cahill and @Elize it sounds like you would both benefit from something salty + sweet by the bed for those times when you wake up with a jolt. The thyroid helps, too, but low blood sugar is resulting in an adrenaline boost it sounds like, and salt and sugar can quench that. I like OJ with salt. I usually drink whatever is left over (if any) first thing in the morning. I also use benedryl (diphenhydramine hcl) 50 mg before bed and that helps.

 

[theLaw]

@Emily Cahill and @Elize it sounds like you would both benefit from something salty + sweet by the bed for those times when you wake up with a jolt. The thyroid helps, too, but low blood sugar is resulting in an adrenaline boost it sounds like, and salt and sugar can quench that. I like OJ with salt. I usually drink whatever is left over (if any) first thing in the morning. I also use benedryl (diphenhydramine hcl) 50 mg before bed and that helps.

+1 - Excellent advise here!

You might also consider using Taurine + OJ to keep your blood sugar stable by increasing your glycogen stores.

My general rule is if I wake up during the night, then I must eat/drink something (Milk + sugar, Gelatin + OJ, Taurine + OJ). Even when I first started doing this, if I drank 1 cup of milk + 3T sugar, even if I didn't feel even slightly hungry, it would put me back to sleep quickly. It's not convenient, but it works.

Here's a recipe that is great before bed (re-post):