Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)

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haidut

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Update: It's been a day since her last application of Progestene, and my mom's temperature is back to a healthy 36.6 C (at the armpits) and her blood pressure at a good 140/82. Her pulse rate has gone down to a good 82. Seems to me the Progestene is letting her sleep and doing some work on her. She is opening her eyes but not talking yet. Her intake of liquids is going back to the regular 8 cups per day, and I can rest easy that she won't need any more dextrose IV's.

Since I've stopped the Progestene for a day already, I wonder if I should resume its use tomorrow at a half-dose of 2drops 3x a day. I wanted her to get to a point of going back to a regular pattern of full sleep at night first. And then I'd like to see if the Progestene would have any effect on her incontinence. If it restores her ability to control her bladder sphincter, it would be something. But if it doesn't, I'll have to transition her to Cyproheptadine (for its anticholinergic properties) and to Lisuride (to counter the depressive tendency of Cypro, given my mom is easily depressed).

@haidut, is this a workable plan? How do I transition from Progestene to Cypro + Lisuride if that's workable?

I think it is workable. I would ask a doctor before using the cypro/lisuride just to make sure he/she is OK with an easily depressable person taking chemicals that can influence her mood so much.
 
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I think the issue is not so much half life as it is that progesterone increases its own synthesis. I would try a lower dose and use every other day or even twice a week. Also, I saw some studies on steroids dissolved in DMSO that showed about 20% of the steroid stays in the skin as a type of "reservoir" and keep leaking into the blood for several days. In other words, about 80% gets absorbed within the first few minutes and then the rest 20% slowly absorb over the next few days. This is probably why some people prefer steroids orally as the liver controls what gets into the blood stream and the half life is pretty short so they can be dosed daily or even multiple times a day. I like the topical route though, it allows more tissues/organs to get a supply of the steroid instead of relying on the liver to release enough into the bloodstream after ingestion.
Oh and one more thing - progesterone (and pregnenolone) are aldosterone antagonists so they tend to increase sodium requirements. The electrolyte issues you mentioned could be due to that. Calcium and magnesium can also fill in for the sodium to a degree but I would try to get more sodium especially if you crave it.

great information, thank you!
 

yerrag

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I think the issue is not so much half life as it is that progesterone increases its own synthesis. I would try a lower dose and use every other day or even twice a week. Also, I saw some studies on steroids dissolved in DMSO that showed about 20% of the steroid stays in the skin as a type of "reservoir" and keep leaking into the blood for several days. In other words, about 80% gets absorbed within the first few minutes and then the rest 20% slowly absorb over the next few days. This is probably why some people prefer steroids orally as the liver controls what gets into the blood stream and the half life is pretty short so they can be dosed daily or even multiple times a day. I like the topical route though, it allows more tissues/organs to get a supply of the steroid instead of relying on the liver to release enough into the bloodstream after ingestion.
Oh and one more thing - progesterone (and pregnenolone) are aldosterone antagonists so they tend to increase sodium requirements. The electrolyte issues you mentioned could be due to that. Calcium and magnesium can also fill in for the sodium to a degree but I would try to get more sodium especially if you crave it.
Thanks haidut. The serum magnesium and sodium, though, was slightly above the high range when tested that day, when admitted. Ionic calcium was within range, however.
 
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haidut

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Thanks haidut. The serum magnesium and sodium, though, was slightly above the high range when tested that day, when admitted. Ionic calcium was within range, however.

Serum magensium should not be high as potassium and magnesium are intracellular minerals and typically their levels should not get elevated. Overtraining and muscle damage may cause higher blood potassium and magnesium levels, so I would retest if possible to see if they are still elevated.
 

yerrag

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I think the issue is not so much half life as it is that progesterone increases its own synthesis. I would try a lower dose and use every other day or even twice a week. Also, I saw some studies on steroids dissolved in DMSO that showed about 20% of the steroid stays in the skin as a type of "reservoir" and keep leaking into the blood for several days. In other words, about 80% gets absorbed within the first few minutes and then the rest 20% slowly absorb over the next few days.

The effects of Progesterone still linger after 5 days, as rat's temperature is slightly higher than normal at 37.1 C. Old rat is sleeping a lot, as it seems to be adjusting to the effects of progesterone and its derivatives. It may also have antagonized the effects of estrogen in the rat, and may be flushing out the estrogen from cells. Being in a hypothyroid state initially, the release of estrogen from the cells may have been a stressor. But as the body accepts and adapts to the protective effects of progesterone, it may have changed to a new normal. In the beginning, the ECG indicates a hypothyroid condition (as based on a QTc reading above 440 msec at 471 msec), but latest ECG indicates hypothyroid condition is gone with QTc at 373 msec. Not sure though whether 373 msec QTc value indicates a hyperthyroid condition though. Still. this may just be a temporary hyperthyroid condition, showing as a reaction to progesterone. Once things settle down, I am hoping the QTc value stabilizes to be representative of a new stable state. Who knows? Maybe the hypothyroid condition would be resolved.

I think it is workable. I would ask a doctor before using the cypro/lisuride just to make sure he/she is OK with an easily depressable person taking chemicals that can influence her mood so much.
You're right. I just don't know which doctor to ask. :)
 
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The effects of Progesterone still linger after 5 days, as rat's temperature is slightly higher than normal at 37.1 C. Old rat is sleeping a lot, as it seems to be adjusting to the effects of progesterone and its derivatives. It may also have antagonized the effects of estrogen in the rat, and may be flushing out the estrogen from cells. Being in a hypothyroid state initially, the release of estrogen from the cells may have been a stressor. But as the body accepts and adapts to the protective effects of progesterone, it may have changed to a new normal. In the beginning, the ECG indicates a hypothyroid condition (as based on a QTc reading above 440 msec at 471 msec), but latest ECG indicates hypothyroid condition is gone with QTc at 373 msec. Not sure though whether 373 msec QTc value indicates a hyperthyroid condition though. Still. this may just be a temporary hyperthyroid condition, showing as a reaction to progesterone. Once things settle down, I am hoping the QTc value stabilizes to be representative of a new stable state. Who knows? Maybe the hypothyroid condition would be resolved.

You're right. I just don't know which doctor to ask. :)

A pharmacist may be able to answer that question as well. I routinely ask local pharmacists questions about interactions and usually they readily go into a discussion of what may work and may be dangerous about any drug prescribed by a doctor. I have heard stuff from them that no doctor knew when I asked.
 

tailypoe3

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I'm a 30 year old female on day three of trying three drops (5 mg) of oral progestene at night along with just one drop of tyromix, and 4 drops of estroban in the morning and 4 more at night-so far my sleep has been great and I feel way less fatigued and agitated at work-the main other thing I am looking for is my skin quality/hormonal acne and abdominal weight gain so I will keep you posted on that-still undecided whether or not I'm going to try two week cycling or take it regularly-I might cut back on the dose during the first two weeks of my cycle. My goal is to hopefully restore function without having to supplement for the rest of my life, have any younger women had any luck with this?
 
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I'm a 30 year old female on day three of trying three drops (5 mg) of oral progestene at night along with just one drop of tyromix, and 4 drops of estroban in the morning and 4 more at night-so far my sleep has been great and I feel way less fatigued and agitated at work-the main other thing I am looking for is my skin quality/hormonal acne and abdominal weight gain so I will keep you posted on that-still undecided whether or not I'm going to try two week cycling or take it regularly-I might cut back on the dose during the first two weeks of my cycle. My goal is to hopefully restore function without having to supplement for the rest of my life, have any younger women had any luck with this?

Thanks for the feedback, glad you are feeling better.
 
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After hearing Ray talk about his use of progesterone on the latest KMUD I remembered I had a bottle of this I had bought for emergenices after I had been in a car accident. I have not had the best experience using other progesterones (when used topically they made veins worse)....

Using this split up into a couple doses over the day. It seems to be helping me to relax. Mostly I am hoping it will help with some vein issues that seem to keep getting worse and worse. There does seem to be a visible improvement already judging by the appearance of veins on the inside of the wrist, hopefully they get better. I'm currently using no other supplements so I can adequately assess affects. I have long suspected that progesterone may be ideal for me due to my brain injury problems and this is when health issues became terrible but I did not get the results I expected from the other progesterones. It is early to say if there is improvement on the brain front, but I certainly feel relaxed. Hopefully it continues to be beneficial, I'm currently using the 24 drops.

Just took third dose today and I feel drunk which i haven;t noticed before. No bad antimale effects so far :thumbsup: Allinall A+ stuff (it is the dmso version)

Great, thanks. Higher doses of progesterone can cause the "drunk" feeling. Peat spoke about it too and how he almost passed out from higher doses or could not feel his legs for some time.
 

BelovedGal

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I think I am on Week 3, maybe 4, of the Progesterone Clear. Overall, sleep seems to be better (hard to tell, too many variables). BUT I have never felt drowsy in any way from it. I'm on 5 to 6 drops at night right now.
 

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@haidut , can you update the first page now that you have switched away from DMSO. How is the topical potency now vs. the DMSO older version? I was putting a total of 24 to 30 drops total on my shoulders throughout the day and started getting cramping in my biceps. Any thoughts? Thanks
 

Obi-wan

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I started mixing this with Tocovit. Wow, within a couple of applications just a few hours apart of 2 drops each on the gums and I felt like Gumby or a Rubber Band Man. I reread Ray Peats article on Progesterone Summaries. He states "If progesterone is taken dissolved in Vit E, it is absorbed very efficiently, and distributed quickly to all tissues" also "When dissolved in Vit E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as lips, tongue, gums or palate"
 
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Braveheart

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I started mixing this with Tocovit. Wow, within a couple of applications just a few hours apart of 2 drops each on the gums and I felt like Gumby or a Rubber Band Man. I reread Ray Peats article on Progesterone Summaries. He states "If progesterone is taken dissolved in Vit E, it is absorbed very efficiently, and distributed quickly to all tissues" also "When dissolved in Vit E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as lips, tongue, gums or palate"
thank you for this feedback ...am wanting to experiment w my Progestine regimen...I really like it...works for me.
 
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@haidut , can you update the first page now that you have switched away from DMSO. How is the topical potency now vs. the DMSO older version? I was putting a total of 24 to 30 drops total on my shoulders throughout the day and started getting cramping in my biceps. Any thoughts? Thanks

Updated, thanks for reminding me. Not sure what the cramping would be from but I think 24-30 drops is a lot for a male unless there is a serious health issue to be addressed.
 

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@haidut

I've searched the forum for an answer to this, but I could not find one.

Dr. Peat has said that vitamin E assists progesterone's assimilation into the chylomicrons and eventual circulation through the blood into the tissues before reaching the liver, and I'm wondering why you chose to use a mixture of SFA esters and ethanol rather than pure vitamin E or a vitamin E/MCT oil mixture?
 
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Obi-wan

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First of all I would like to thank @peatarian and @lisaferraro for all of their inputs on the original Progesterone thread started in 2012! Yes @haidut, I have a serious health issue. It is advanced prostate cancer. Progesterone will lower Testosterone in high doses but that is ok with me. @DaveFoster, I think Haidut does not want to infringe on the Progest-E patent. @sladerunner69 if you do not have issues then a small amount of progesterone with preg. would work IMO. I cannot do preg. right now but a lot of progesterone is working to pull estrogen out of the tissues. T3 works when Progesterone starts knocking me out. To all, a BIG thanks!!! By the way I am a 60 year old male.
 
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@haidut

I've searched the forum for an answer to this, but I could not find one.

Dr. Peat has said that vitamin E assists progesterone's assimilation into the chylomicrons and eventual circulation through the blood into the tissues before reaching the liver, and I'm wondering why you chose to use a mixture of SFA esters and ethanol rather than pure vitamin E or a vitamin E/MCT oil mixture?

Couple of reasons. When I first started the supplement it was in DMSO solution, and that has advantages even over the tocopherol/oil mix Peat's supplement uses. So, my initial choice was for DMSO and the advantages it offers like non-greasy, almost immediate absorption, cellulra ruptake, steroid potentiation, etc. Once people started complaining about the DMSO I simply switched to another solvent that studies claim provides basically the same absorption as DMSO. Not sure how much it potentiates the entry into the cell but so far people have said they do not feel much difference compared to the DMSO version except it being a bit slower to absorb.
And of course, I wanted to differentiate myself from others selling the same formulation as Peat.
 
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First of all I would like to thank @peatarian and @lisaferraro for all of their inputs on the original Progesterone thread started in 2012! Yes @haidut, I have a serious health issue. It is advanced prostate cancer. Progesterone will lower Testosterone in high doses but that is ok with me. @DaveFoster, I think Haidut does not want to infringe on the Progest-E patent. @sladerunner69 if you do not have issues then a small amount of progesterone with preg. would work IMO. I cannot do preg. right now but a lot of progesterone is working to pull estrogen out of the tissues. T3 works when Progesterone starts knocking me out. To all, a BIG thanks!!! By the way I am a 60 year old male.

Yep, not infringing (even though the patent has expired) and trying to provide another option with its own benefits were the main motivators.
 

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