Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)

[haidut]

Early reports are positive with Progestene. I wanted to give it a go, in combo with small amounts of DHEA, because either DHEA on it's own, or Pansterone was a fail with me. Concluded that it was the DHEA that was messing me up, and no doubt the DHEA was converting more into estrogen for me. So far so good on the DHEA with Progestene. I get more of an androgenic feel, than I did with Pansterone. The progesterone must be doing a better job of inhibiting aromatase so the DHEA can do it's job. Deciding on only one drop. Yesterday I tried 2 drops, one am. and one pm, and felt more listless and joints ached a bit more. Might have driven E and/or cortisol too low. For now, seems like only one drop in the pm. is good. Staying low on the DHEA...2.5 mg's am, and 2.5 mg's pm.

Nice, thanks for the great feedback. A few other people reported the same - Pansterone on its own game them estrogenic symptoms but adding even a little progesterone not only resolved that but boosted even the androgenic effects. I think progesterone dose equal to the DHEA one would be a good starting point. So, 5/5/5 it is, almost like the famous Domino's pizza deal

 

[japanesedude]

Im just searched on google about Progesterone for Carpaltunnel.
then I found interesting research

Progesterone - new therapy in mild carpal tunnel syndrome? Study design of a randomized clinical trial for local therapy
Estrogen and progesterone receptors in carpal tunnel syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[StrongMom]

Most of the synthetic progestins are actually 19-nortestosterone derivatives so they are really not comparable to progesterone. Have you had any blood work done? I would check progesterone, DHEA-S, prolactin, cortisol, and vitamin D levels.

Hi @haidut,

Which of these hormones do you are responsible for the hair loss? I've been having hair loss in the last few months. I have been taking most of these supplements and some recent test results in hand.

More importantly my four year old boy has been losing his hair like crazy. If it goes at this pace he is going to lose all his hair in a few months. He has so many patches of hair loss! He is on thyroid and pregnelone, too.

 

[haidut]

Hi @haidut,

Which of these hormones do you are responsible for the hair loss? I've been having hair loss in the last few months. I have been taking most of these supplements and some recent test results in hand.

More importantly my four year old boy has been losing his hair like crazy. If it goes at this pace he is going to lose all his hair in a few months. He has so many patches of hair loss! He is on thyroid and pregnelone, too.

I would say a combination of prolactin, cortisol, estrogen and possibly another (yet unconfirmed) metabolite of DHEA. Why is your 4-year old taking pregnenolone? Is he autistic or is it done for another reason. Unless there is an issue a biy that young probably does not need extra pregnenolone.

 

[StrongMom]

I would say a combination of prolactin, cortisol, estrogen and possibly another (yet unconfirmed) metabolite of DHEA. Why is your 4-year old taking pregnenolone? Is he autistic or is it done for another reason. Unless there is an issue a biy that young probably does not need extra pregnenolone.

Thanks Haidut. My son is autistic; pregnenolone and thyroid are Ray's recommendations. Is it possible that I was overdoing it? I can see cortisol playing a role. He recently has lost his appetite and become even pickier. Like a malnutritioned African children, he has been developing a big belly. A week ago I stopped giving him pregnenolone.

I have just had the saliva test you mentioned in the other threads. My DHEA is below the normal range. My morning cortisol turned a bit low too, but it could be because of a billion of supplements I have been taking before going to bed (in order to sleep). I have been taking a lot of pregnenolone too.

 

[haidut]

Thanks Haidut. My son is autistic; pregnenolone and thyroid are Ray's recommendations. Is it possible that I was overdoing it? I can see cortisol playing a role. He recently has lost his appetite and become even pickier. Like a malnutritioned African children, he has been developing a big belly. A week ago I stopped giving him pregnenolone.

I have just had the saliva test you mentioned in the other threads. My DHEA is below the normal range. My morning cortisol turned a bit low too, but it could be because of a billion of supplements I have been taking before going to bed (in order to sleep). I have been taking a lot of pregnenolone too.

I would confirm the saliva test with a blood one just to make sure. The saliva tests are not as accurate as blood ones but are a quicker OTC method that does not require a doctor. If the boy is developing big belly I would test cortisol for him as well.

 

[StrongMom]

I would confirm the saliva test with a blood one just to make sure. The saliva tests are not as accurate as blood ones but are a quicker OTC method that does not require a doctor. If the boy is developing big belly I would test cortisol for him as well.

Thanks again. Just an update: i am back on progesterone and hair loss is much less. I would say a significant improvement. Also, I stopped giving prognenolone to my son 9 days ago and their is some improvement in appetite! Not sure a coincidence!

 

[japanesedude]

Is it enough to prevent the anti androgenic effect such as lower libido,mucle loss from progesterone when used with Pasterone or Androsterone?

 

[raypeatclips]

@haidut Does progestene need to be used at exactly the same time as pansterone to control the dhea problems? Drops of progestene on one testicle and pansterone on the other?

 

[haidut]

@haidut Does progestene need to be used at exactly the same time as pansterone to control the dhea problems? Drops of progestene on one testicle and pansterone on the other?

Not really, I think it can be used at other times of the day and still provide benefit but you can try at the same time. For males, I'd prefer using androsterone or Gonadin as estrogen control substances compared to progesterone.

 

[yerrag]

I gave my mom progestene with 4 drops each time 3x yesteday. She is coming off an IV therapy of an antibiotic called Ertapenem for her UTI.

She was having difficulty sleeping, which often happens to her when she is given IV antibiotics.

I started giving her progestene a day and a half after the 1-week IV therapy ended. She started to sleep after 12 hours.

She had slept continuously for a full day, and is still sleeping now, although she can now be able to drink fruit juices.

Her temperature has gone up from 36.3 C to 37.7 C. Her blood pressure went up from 120/80 to 180/100. Her pulse rate has gone up from around 75 to 91.

I started to give her drip IV of dextrose to keep her supply of sugar constant, but there's less of a need now for it as she is starting to drink fruit juice.

I'm going to resume giving her a milk blend that has raw egg, gelatin, colostrum, whey protein, vco, coco nectar, magnesium citrate, egg shell powder, and niacinamide.

Her temperature and her blood pressure is what worries me. I'm beginning to think I should have given her half the dosage. What can I do to lessen the effect of progestene?

I think I should just ride this out, and her temp and blood pressure would stabilize.

But I'm thinking perhaps I should have started with 2 drops progestene, with 2 drops tyromix, and perhaps some pregnenolone, which I think Ray Peat recommended in his book "Generative Energy."

Edit: Her sleep is a peaceful sleep though, and she did not have any more tremors during her sleep. She was also schizophrenic from the antibiotic.

 

[yerrag]

I have to add that since I was applying the progesterone on my mom, I got some of it too. Today I feel very energetic. I would have coffee after lunch each day, and yet I still feel a little lethargic. Today, I didn't have coffee after lunch, and I didn't feel any drag in the afternoon. No sleepiness at all. I just kept myself busy. Progestene seems pretty potent. It's some picker upper. At my dosage, it just feels right.

 

[yerrag]

Update: It's been a day since her last application of Progestene, and my mom's temperature is back to a healthy 36.6 C (at the armpits) and her blood pressure at a good 140/82. Her pulse rate has gone down to a good 82. Seems to me the Progestene is letting her sleep and doing some work on her. She is opening her eyes but not talking yet. Her intake of liquids is going back to the regular 8 cups per day, and I can rest easy that she won't need any more dextrose IV's.

Since I've stopped the Progestene for a day already, I wonder if I should resume its use tomorrow at a half-dose of 2drops 3x a day. I wanted her to get to a point of going back to a regular pattern of full sleep at night first. And then I'd like to see if the Progestene would have any effect on her incontinence. If it restores her ability to control her bladder sphincter, it would be something. But if it doesn't, I'll have to transition her to Cyproheptadine (for its anticholinergic properties) and to Lisuride (to counter the depressive tendency of Cypro, given my mom is easily depressed).

@haidut, is this a workable plan? How do I transition from Progestene to Cypro + Lisuride if that's workable?

 

[yerrag]

I can't say enough good things about Progestene. Sorry but the past two days I have been very productive. I just want to do things now, instead of deferring my list of things to do tomorrow. It's already near midnight and I'm still wanting to finish up on stuff, and have read many threads in this forum, and absorbing many info. My mind is very lucid. And like I said, I'm just getting its goodness only because I'm applying it on my mom. I feel like I'm a freshly charged battery, and I have the power to walk the extra mile. I mean - this is what it means to be healthy - full of energy! Thanks haidut for Progestene!

 

[haidut]

I can't say enough good things about Progestene. Sorry but the past two days I have been very productive. I just want to do things now, instead of deferring my list of things to do tomorrow. It's already near midnight and I'm still wanting to finish up on stuff, and have read many threads in this forum, and absorbing many info. My mind is very lucid. And like I said, I'm just getting its goodness only because I'm applying it on my mom. I feel like I'm a freshly charged battery, and I have the power to walk the extra mile. I mean - this is what it means to be healthy - full of energy! Thanks haidut for Progestene!

Excellent! Thanks so much for the great feedback!

 

[yerrag]

We only have license to sell it as topical supplement, but many people choose to take it orally. I think Peat prefer progesterone and some of the fat-soluble vitamins taken topically. The effects should be similar but there is difference in plasma concentrations and half-life. Used topically may give longer half life, so the supplement could potentially be taken less often. I would search the forum for more info, there are some great threads discussing oral vs. topical administration for many supplements.

@haidut, what is the half life of Progestene? It's been more than 2 days since I applied topically Progestene on my rat. It still is making her temperature go up. It would lower once I give an hour of bag breathing, together with lowering of the heart rate. But temps still keep going back up, and my recourse for now is to bag breath regularly to increase the rat's serum CO2, so that blood pH can go down and establish electrolyte balance so the heart will beat more regularly (arrhythnic right now) and more slowly.

I think it is the residual amount of Progestene left that's causing those. Knowing the half-life would give me some expectations of when temperatures would subside. If half-life is way more extended, I may resort to more frequent and prolonged bag breathing, with an oximeter on hand to monitor progress each time I use bag breathing.

 

[mirc12354]

Any woman taking this as a contraception? What dosages?

 

[beachbum]

I have seen the opposite happen actually - i.e. lower dose progesterone convert into androgens through the androstenedione pathway. Animal studies show progesterone can increase even DHT. Remember, taking progesterone and getting higher blood levels of estrogen means not higher but LOWER estrogen in tissues. The true test would be taking low dose progesterone and measuring blood prolactin. If systemic estrogenic activity is higher then prolactin would be higher as well. However, all the studies I have seen with all kinds of progesterone doses show that prolactin goes down. So, it is highly unlikley that progesterone increase estrogen in lower doses.

Just putting my 2cents in regarding dose of progestrone. First of I only have one ovary and in menopause so I would say the other is nonresistant as well. So before I read about progesterone on the progestronetheraphy site, I was using the usual Dr. Lee dose and got symptoms I could not handle at all, it made me worse. so after reading that site I ended up using ALOT. I need to this day between 400-500mgs a day. I use thinking of using the products here but not sure if I can afford them of if they are equivalent to mine. Mine is 10%, each pump is 100mgs. Are there samples on here. I pay 45.00 for 10,000mgs of cream but wondering your products are more potent. I would like to compare but I can't afford to spend more at this time.

 

[haidut]

Just putting my 2cents in regarding dose of progestrone. First of I only have one ovary and in menopause so I would say the other is nonresistant as well. So before I read about progesterone on the progestronetheraphy site, I was using the usual Dr. Lee dose and got symptoms I could not handle at all, it made me worse. so after reading that site I ended up using ALOT. I need to this day between 400-500mgs a day. I use thinking of using the products here but not sure if I can afford them of if they are equivalent to mine. Mine is 10%, each pump is 100mgs. Are there samples on here. I pay 45.00 for 10,000mgs of cream but wondering your products are more potent. I would like to compare but I can't afford to spend more at this time.

Due to the solvents we use, transdermal use of our product may be more effective than the cream you are using but I can't say for sure as every product is different. I am pretty sure out of those 10g progesterone in the cream you don't absorb anywhere near that amount, so the majority of it is probably wasted. I guess there is no way of knowing which product works better until you try. We don't have samples but at $25 our product is only half as expensive as the cream and seems to have absorption in the 80% - 90% while most other commercial products typically do not exceed 20% and most often are in the 10% range.

 

[haidut]

@haidut, what is the half life of Progestene? It's been more than 2 days since I applied topically Progestene on my rat. It still is making her temperature go up. It would lower once I give an hour of bag breathing, together with lowering of the heart rate. But temps still keep going back up, and my recourse for now is to bag breath regularly to increase the rat's serum CO2, so that blood pH can go down and establish electrolyte balance so the heart will beat more regularly (arrhythnic right now) and more slowly.

I think it is the residual amount of Progestene left that's causing those. Knowing the half-life would give me some expectations of when temperatures would subside. If half-life is way more extended, I may resort to more frequent and prolonged bag breathing, with an oximeter on hand to monitor progress each time I use bag breathing.

I think the issue is not so much half life as it is that progesterone increases its own synthesis. I would try a lower dose and use every other day or even twice a week. Also, I saw some studies on steroids dissolved in DMSO that showed about 20% of the steroid stays in the skin as a type of "reservoir" and keep leaking into the blood for several days. In other words, about 80% gets absorbed within the first few minutes and then the rest 20% slowly absorb over the next few days. This is probably why some people prefer steroids orally as the liver controls what gets into the blood stream and the half life is pretty short so they can be dosed daily or even multiple times a day. I like the topical route though, it allows more tissues/organs to get a supply of the steroid instead of relying on the liver to release enough into the bloodstream after ingestion.
Oh and one more thing - progesterone (and pregnenolone) are aldosterone antagonists so they tend to increase sodium requirements. The electrolyte issues you mentioned could be due to that. Calcium and magnesium can also fill in for the sodium to a degree but I would try to get more sodium especially if you crave it.