Progest-E Tastes Different

[Jennifer]

Thank you visionofstrength and 4peatssake for the idea and patent link. I appreciate that!

I contacted a compounding pharmacy a few months back to see if they could custom make progesterone in a natural vitamin E base for me. I use to get a prescription progesterone cream from them and they told me if I ever had an allergic reaction to its base, they could customize a base for me. Apparently they don't do that anymore.

I had also talked with a member on the Peatarian forum who mentioned Prometrium and I figured I could get a prescription for it and dissolve it in vit. E, but apparently it's already dissolved in peanut oil. My last attempt, I found a few suppliers of natural progesterone USP powder to make my own from scratch, but my dog fell ill and that idea took a backseat.

I think I know which forum member you're referring to, 4peatssake. If I remember correctly, her post was the one where I found the Kenogen contact information to give to my GP. I remember her mentioning being an Esthetician and getting a discount.

 

[tara]

And the reply from

There has been no change to the formula though there are variances in the live plant matter in the beginning of each process.
Thanks,
Rita

I'm now wondering which component has had a change in it's source. I would have expected the bioidentical progesterone itself to be a pretty fixed molecular structure that shouldn't change in taste.

 

[4peatssake]

I wish I knew this definitively but it's really only a rumor I've heard - which is that RP has distanced himself from Progest-E. I've always wondered that - if true - his concern is over a "component" now being used in his original formula.

Anyone know more?

 

[visionofstrength]

I believe Kenogen licenses RP's patent, so RP could in theory revoke the patent license if he was unhappy with how it was implemented. I would further surmise that Kenogen is paying patent royalties to RP and thereby helping support his work at least indirectly. So, go Kenogen!

However, other than the patent license, it would be proper (and prudent) for RP to have no involvement in the operation of the company Kenogen, since otherwise his articles about progesterone might be construed as medical claims by Kenogen (and hence fall within the jurisdiction of regulatory agencies).

 

[tara]

I wish I knew this definitively but it's really only a rumor I've heard - which is that RP has distanced himself from Progest-E. I've always wondered that - if true - his concern is over a "component" now being used in his original formula.

Anyone know more?

I think I heard this in an interview with RP himself, but no idea which one.
I think he said his formula was 10% progesterone in pure vitamin-E, but that the company started diluting this with cheaper oils, which would make it less effective. The bottle does say it contains other oils, and doesn't specify proportions.
I am not aware of him receiving royalties, but don't know one way or the other.
It's obviously effective for many people, but maybe it would work even better with the original recipe.

 

[visionofstrength]

Well, the easy thing for us to do, is use the original RP patent as a cookbook, find a source of our own progesterone USP and a source of Vitamin E that we can stir it with.

I think a few of the members here are wizards at finding sources!

 

[4peatssake]

I believe Kenogen licenses RP's patent, so RP could in theory revoke the patent license if he was unhappy with how it was implemented. I would further surmise that Kenogen is paying patent royalties to RP and thereby helping support his work at least indirectly. So, go Kenogen!

However, other than the patent license, it would be proper (and prudent) for RP to have no involvement in the operation of the company Kenogen, since otherwise his articles about progesterone might be construed as medical claims by Kenogen (and hence fall within the jurisdiction of regulatory agencies).

Problem is, this is just more conjecture. No offense but we just don't know and it would be nice to.

To be clear, what I've heard is not that he has distanced himself from the operation to keep his research separate, but that he no longer endorses it due to how it's being made. That he questions its purity. It's a rumor though and popped into my head when the subject of the changed taste came up.

What I do know is that RP will quickly cease using a product when the excipients are changed. He's written about having this experience a number of times.

 

[gummybear]

I wish I knew this definitively but it's really only a rumor I've heard - which is that RP has distanced himself from Progest-E. I've always wondered that - if true - his concern is over a "component" now being used in his original formula.

Anyone know more?

I think I heard this in an interview with RP himself, but no idea which one.
I think he said his formula was 10% progesterone in pure vitamin-E, but that the company started diluting this with cheaper oils, which would make it less effective. The bottle does say it contains other oils, and doesn't specify proportions.
I am not aware of him receiving royalties, but don't know one way or the other.
It's obviously effective for many people, but maybe it would work even better with the original recipe.

Where did you "heard" this?

 

[tara]

Where did you "heard" this?

Wish I could remember. I think one of the interviews I listened to when I first came across Peat. Can't remember if it was audio or video interview even. I'll certainly post here if I come across it again. I don't entirely trust my memory either.

What is on the current bottles is not subject to my memory, and it clearly has vegetable trigycerides in the ingredients. RP articles I have read refer to progesterone in vit E; they don't say progesterone in vit E with other added triglycerides.

 

[BingDing]

Well, the easy thing for us to do, is use the original RP patent as a cookbook, find a source of our own progesterone USP and a source of Vitamin E that we can stir it with.

I think a few of the members here are wizards at finding sources!

That may be the best approach. The patent is long expired so the knowledge disclosed is in the public domain. As long as bio-identical progesterone is available I can't see why it wouldn't work.

I just noticed the name "Progest-E Complex" is trademarked. I don't recall RP ever using that phrase. As I understand it, Kenogen can put anything they want into the bottle.

It's kind of weird, but Kenogen being in Eugene gave me a sense of security. Silly me.

 

[Jennifer]

I too would think that the progesterone component would be relatively fixed, but now I wonder.

I was thinking about this in bed last night...my mom has not been able to sleep lately. Insomnia was one thing she use to suffer from without progest-e. This only started up around the time she received the last batch and because it's been so stressful around here with my dog Cricket and her subsequent passing, I wrote it off as such. But my mom had her 8 week follow up doctor's appointment last week to check her hormones and her progesterone levels had dropped from 27 to 10 and her TSH went up from 3.1 to 4.6. This is even after upping her progest-e dose and NDT since her blood test 8 weeks prior. Again, I chalked it up to the stress with Cricket.

My sleep has been riddled with anxiety and nightmares, but my brain hasn't caught up to reality and is still hyper focused on trying to save Cricket so I figured that was the cause. But Progest-e usually allows me to sleep deeply, quieting my restless brain, no matter what my circumstances or attitude. If that makes sense.

So besides taste, since apparently my taste buds are dead, has anyone here noticed a change in the effectiveness of the most recent batch who isn't going through a stressful situation? Any old negative symptoms returning? Any hormone levels off? I'm still thinking it comes down to stress for my mom and I and not anything to do with progest-e, but I'm curious.

 

[Jennifer]

Since people are showing some interest in making their own progest-e, here are some links I saved for suppliers of progesterone USP in bulk. I was in the process of comparing prices at the time.

http://www.labexpress.com/progesterone- ... 37188.html

http://www.labdepotinc.com/p-21758-prog ... .php?c=513

http://www.sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/10423/SLP3088

http://store.galladechem.com/progestero ... 48314.aspx

 

[charlie]

Jennifer, a month or so back I mentioned to 4peatssake that it seems that progest-e isn't as effective for people as it was before. I made this observation by watching people's responses from it here. I remember at least 2 people mentioning they took heavy doses of progest-e and then also had blood tests which showed progesterone levels still in the tank. Which seemed really odd to me.

 

[HDD]

I am so bummed out by this. I was going to order a few bottles this week but am not sure if I should or who I should order from now.

 

[Peata]

This is from Long Natural Health:

Dr. Peat's Progest E Complex contains the following:

Supplement Facts: Serving Size 3 drops, Servings per Container about 300
Natural d-alpha tocopherol &/or mixed tocopherols (vitamin E) 4-22 mg per drop; 12-66 mg per serving
Natural progesterone derived from wild yam 3 mg per drop; 9 mg per serving
Other Ingredients: Vegetable triglycerides (plant-based, sourced from either olive or coconut)

**The vitamin E in the Progest-E Complex is derived from soy, yet many people with soy allergies have no problem with Progest-E because for most people the allergic reaction is a response to soy proteins. There are no proteins in the oily fractions of the plant (such as vitamin E), which is a highly purified distillate. If you have a soy allergy, it is best to first test on a small area of the skin (ex: ankle).

**The Vitamin E is derived from NON-GMO soy.

**The progesterone in Dr. Peat`s Progest-E Complex is USP.

 

[kiran]

Olive/coconut oil. Not the worst thing ever, I suppose.

 

[Jennifer]

Jennifer, a month or so back I mentioned to 4peatssake that it seems that progest-e isn't as effective for people as it was before. I made this observation by watching people's responses from it here. I remember at least 2 people mentioning they took heavy doses of progest-e and then also had blood tests which showed progesterone levels still in the tank. Which seemed really odd to me.

Hmm...that is really odd, Charlie. Could it be possible that there's an issue with the actual progesterone USP used that Kenogen is unaware of? Unless people are contacting Kenogen or sellers of progest-e with concerns that it's not working like it has previously, they may not be aware of it? I really don't know. My current experience with it isn't the best to go by because of the stress my mom and I have been under. To be fair, I'll give it a few weeks to see if mine and my mom's symptoms resolve and if they don't, I'll contact Kenogen directly and let you all know what they say.

Haagendazendiane, if your concerned with the current quality of the progest-e, to ease your mind, you could always contact Kenogen before you order some. Just to make sure there isn't an issue with the batches that they haven't caught. If this helps any, my mom and I hadn't had an issue before Cricket was sick so I still think in our case, it's a stress issue that no amount of progest-e could fix. Progest-e won't cure a broken heart...you know?

 

[tara]

And the reply from

There has been no change to the formula though there are variances in the live plant matter in the beginning of each process.

I'm now wondering which component has had a change in it's source. I would have expected the bioidentical progesterone itself to be a pretty fixed molecular structure that shouldn't change in taste.

I asked her for more info

...Do you know if it's the source material for the progesterone or the vitamin E or
the other oils that's changed? The bottle doesn't say what the other oils (vegetable trigycerides) are. Do you know? ...

She said she'd investigate, and came back with:

The manufacturer repeats the Progest-E formula has not changed.
The vegetable triglycerides are coconut derived.

Something's obviously changed, given lots of people noticed a difference. I wonder what? Maybe the tocopherols they get supplied with? Or maybe the bottles had some funny residue in them before they were filled?
So much more of my now Peat-inspired diet aligns with my taste buds' approval, that I am getting more and more reluctant to eat things that don't taste good - figuring my body knows more than my conscious brain can accommodate.

 

[visionofstrength]

Something's obviously changed, given lots of people noticed a difference. I wonder what? Maybe the tocopherols they get supplied with? Or maybe the bottles had some funny residue in them before they were filled?
So much more of my now Peat-inspired diet aligns with my taste buds' approval, that I am getting more and more reluctant to eat things that don't taste good - figuring my body knows more than my conscious brain can accommodate.

One of the many wise members of this forum told me this in a PM, though not for attribution:

There is always the risk of a specific supplier trying to change the product and sell something cheaper under the famous Progest-E trademark. Have you seen the movie "American Gangster"? Something similar happened in that movie.
Anyways, I doubt Peat is involved in this if it does turn out to be product "cutting".
But to your point - anybody can buy progesterone powder online and mix with vitamin E and coconut or olive oil themselves. This is the only way to be sure the product is legit.

I've begun using Progest-E exclusively through intranasal application, since I'm only interested in its effects on consciousness. I find I can use much smaller doses this way with the same effect or greater.

I'm inclined to follow the advice of "anonymous" above, and buy the powder and mix it myself, to be sure the product is "legit." I'll let you know how I make out.

 

[4peatssake]

There is always the risk of a specific supplier trying to change the product and sell something cheaper under the famous Progest-E trademark. Have you seen the movie "American Gangster"? Something similar happened in that movie.
Anyways, I doubt Peat is involved in this if it does turn out to be product "cutting".
But to your point - anybody can buy progesterone powder online and mix with vitamin E and coconut or olive oil themselves. This is the only way to be sure the product is legit.

Exactly.