Progest-e Or Not Progest-e, That Is The Question

[alywest]

So I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E. So in wondering what in the product is not good that would cause RP to walk away like that and I saw that they decided to use 'soy isoflavones.'

Here is a quote from RP:

The estrogenic properties of legumes were studied when sheep farmers found that their sheep miscarried when they ate clover. (I think it's interesting how this terribly toxic effect has been neglected in recent decades.) All legumes have this property, and all parts of the plant seem to contain some of the active chemicals. In beans, several substances have been found to contribute to the effect. The estrogenic effects of the seed oils and the isoflavones have been studied the most, but the well-known antithyroid actions (again, involving the oils, the isoflavones, and other molecules found in legumes) have an indirect estrogen-promoting action, since hypothyroidism leads to hyperestrogenism. (Estrogens are known to be thyroid suppressors, so the problem tends to be self-accelerating.) ( Natural Estrogens )

Hmmm, seems a bit counterintuitive to use an estrogenic product in a progesterone oil. When I used PRogest-e I had a lot of breast pain but I attributed it to the estrogens being loosened from my tissues. Now that I use another oil, I don't have breast pain and feel that I'm making better progress in restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen.

Thoughts?

 

[LUH 3417]

I used progest E and it gave me symptoms of estrogen dominance so I stopped using it and none of the symptoms have returned. I would just avoid it honestly.

 

[alywest]

I used progest E and it gave me symptoms of estrogen dominance so I stopped using it and none of the symptoms have returned. I would just avoid it honestly.

I have tried another progesterone oil with much better results: http://www.forefronthealth.com/shop/progesterone-complex/

doesn't contain soy in any form~ the other one that sounds good is Simply Progesterone serum

for women

For men I think Haidut's progestene would work well, it was not strong enough for me, but I have been using about 100 mg/day
*Also I don't seem to be able to get anything from topical hormone application. I also use Tyronene but I have to take the drops orally

 

[alywest]

I used progest E and it gave me symptoms of estrogen dominance so I stopped using it and none of the symptoms have returned. I would just avoid it honestly.

I just realized we had a similar conversation earlier this year when we were both starting out with progesterone...so I guess this is our follow up!
It actually really makes me mad that Kenogen would produce a progesterone oil with soy isoflavones, and then say "Oh, it's cool, it's not the part of the soy that most people are allergic to, so it's ok!"

 

[LUH 3417]

I just realized we had a similar conversation earlier this year when we were both starting out with progesterone...so I guess this is our follow up!
It actually really makes me mad that Kenogen would produce a progesterone oil with soy isoflavones, and then say "Oh, it's cool, it's not the part of the soy that most people are allergic to, so it's ok!"

Haha yea I remember too! Yea I agree, the entire experience has just made me more hesitant to experiement and supplement so much since things went haywire really quick. Some people on the forum claim progestE saved their life but every time I took it it gave me tender breasts, extreme mood swings, and I developed cellulite that I never had before as well as fluid filled sacs under my eyes (I used it under my eyes because I read a post that it's supposed to make the skin smoother!)

 

[alywest]

Haha yea I remember too! Yea I agree, the entire experience has just made me more hesitant to experiement and supplement so much since things went haywire really quick. Some people on the forum claim progestE saved their life but every time I took it it gave me tender breasts, extreme mood swings, and I developed cellulite that I never had before as well as fluid filled sacs under my eyes (I used it under my eyes because I read a post that it's supposed to make the skin smoother!)

I never thought that such a small amount of soy isoflavones could make such a difference but I gave the other stuff a go and had none of the tenderness in the breasts or mood swings. Cellulite I'm working on with pregnenalone.

Anyways, class action lawsuit against Kenogen, anyone?

 

[LUH 3417]

I never thought that such a small amount of soy isoflavones could make such a difference but I gave the other stuff a go and had none of the tenderness in the breasts or mood swings. Cellulite I'm working on with pregnenalone.

Anyways, class action lawsuit against Kenogen, anyone?

Is the pregnenalone working? I'm a bit scared of supplementation moving forward.

 

[alywest]

Is the pregnenalone working? I'm a bit scared of supplementation moving forward.

Yes I would say it is. It hasn't been a very long time since I made the switch, but it took about a month and a half on the new stuff to not experience the breast pain. I think my moods have been a lot more even. I would hate to see you give up on progesterone completely because of their product. For me it has been a mixture of working on thyroid and progesterone, my estrogen dominance is really crazy. I'm in my late 30's and have two children, though, and I've had thyroid issues for a long time so that affects it. I finally feel like I'm making progress but I'm feeling a bit like my body is a battleground. I could hardly afford to go through that crap with the breasts and my liver getting even more shut down (effects from isoflavones). Shame on Kenogen for putting ingredients in their product that a hypothyroid person would be sensitive to. I know that's a newer thing and Ray Peat didn't approve it.

 

[alywest]

Is the pregnenalone working? I'm a bit scared of supplementation moving forward.

PRegnenalone is great for me, but it's not as strong acting as progesterone, no matter how you try. It's good for replenishing. I had some crazy skin stuff going on on my chest where I broke out in hives at one point and the skin never totally healed until I started the pregnenalone.

 

[lollipop]

Interesting you both had these results. I highly believe this is individual and each person’s sensitivity to the small amount of soy isoflavones. For me personally, I had great results with Progest-e. In fact so much so, I barely take or need it at all. I have a bottle that I carry around in my person and is still mostly full after three/four months.

These varying results are truly why I love experimentation. Seriously, results vary depending on starting point, lifestyle and dietary factors, body chemistry and on and on and on. After now about 3 years being around Peat community, one thing that has become clear for me, absolute “bads” and “goods” do not exist.

@alywest @seraphim

 

[alywest]

Interesting you both had these results. I highly believe this is individual and each person’s sensitivity to the small amount of soy isoflavones. For me personally, I had great results with Progest-e. In fact so much so, I barely take or need it at all. I have a bottle that I carry around in my person and is still mostly full after three/four months.

These varying results are truly why I love experimentation. Seriously, results vary depending on starting point, lifestyle and dietary factors, body chemistry and on and on and on. After now about 3 years being around Peat community, one thing that has become clear for me, absolute “bads” and “goods” do not exist.

@alywest @seraphim

I wonder if it's because you only need small amounts at this point that the isoflavones are not an issue. I was taking a LOT for a while, like a 1/2 teaspoon at a time sometimes. I think because my liver is still weak and I'm still estrogen dominant it was more difficult for my body to process the isoflavones, so I agree. And I think the formula changed, perhaps when you were using more of it (if that was the brand you used) it didn't have them at the time. I don't know when they got added but I'm thinking about one to two years ago. The weird thing is that the progesterone itself still helped immensely, but I was having these other reactions on the other end.

 

[Braveheart]

I recently emailed Dr Peat because of my interest in progesterone..

Am looking for the "right" Progesterone for my aging body...is this it?

https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/Dr-Peats-Progest-E-Complex-34-ml

His reply...

That’s the right (I think the only good) progesterone product. You can also get it directly from the producer, Kenogen: [email protected].

 

[lollipop]

I wonder if it's because you only need small amounts at this point that the isoflavones are not an issue. I was taking a LOT for a while, like a 1/2 teaspoon at a time sometimes. I think because my liver is still weak and I'm still estrogen dominant it was more difficult for my body to process the isoflavones, so I agree. And I think the formula changed, perhaps when you were using more of it (if that was the brand you used) it didn't have them at the time. I don't know when they got added but I'm thinking about one to two years ago. The weird thing is that the progesterone itself still helped immensely, but I was having these other reactions on the other end.

I started using it in summer/fall 2015 very small amounts and then in winter bumped it up to sometimes 400mg a day! Like you half a teaspoon and more for about a year Then I seemed to have got better and intuitively starting in spring 2017 I began weaning off and now do not need. It could be they changed the formula in between these timings. I think it is wonderful that you found a good one for you! I have also heard the Health Natura one is good. I thought to buy Ideallabs one in mct and see how that works for me

 

[lollipop]

I recently emailed Dr Peat because of my interest in progesterone..

Am looking for the "right" Progesterone for my aging body...is this it?

Dr. Peat's Progest E Oil Complex, 34 ml

His reply...

That’s the right (I think the only good) progesterone product. You can also get it directly from the producer, Kenogen: [email protected].

This seems to coincide with my experience.

 

[alywest]

I recently emailed Dr Peat because of my interest in progesterone..

Am looking for the "right" Progesterone for my aging body...is this it?

Dr. Peat's Progest E Oil Complex, 34 ml

His reply...

That’s the right (I think the only good) progesterone product. You can also get it directly from the producer, Kenogen: [email protected].

OK, so maybe I'm just crazy! I don't know why this would make such a big difference for me but it does. Maybe he is ok with it, but my body is telling me otherwise, and it sounds like @seraphim was having a similar experience. And I can honestly say the breast pain went away when I took the other brands. Also, the other two brands don't require refrigeration whereas Progest-e does, and one of them states that that means "inferior quality" or something like that. They didn't specifically reference to my recollection, but I thought they were talking about inferior tocopherols.

 

[alywest]

I started using it in summer/fall 2015 very small amounts and then in winter bumped it up to sometimes 400mg a day! Like you half a teaspoon and more for about a year Then I seemed to have got better and intuitively starting in spring 2017 I began weaning off and now do not need. It could be they changed the formula in between these timings. I think it is wonderful that you found a good one for you! I have also heard the Health Natura one is good. I thought to buy Ideallabs one in mct and see how that works for me

I wasn't able to find idealabs progestene in MCT oil, pansterone (dhea and pregnenalone) you have the choice of tocopherols/MCT or dmso (I think he switched that to SFA Esters)

I would like it if it was offered that way for progesterone as well, but I require such large doses that it might not be cost effective.

 

[alywest]

Also, perhaps I am extremely sensitive to soy in any form. I never had an allergic reaction to foods with soy in it, like soy sauce, but maybe the effect was delayed as can be the case and I never made the connection

 

[alywest]

.

 

[lollipop]

I wasn't able to find idealabs progestene in MCT oil, pansterone (dhea and pregnenalone) you have the choice of tocopherols/MCT or dmso (I think he switched that to SFA Esters)

I would like it if it was offered that way for progesterone as well, but I require such large doses that it might not be cost effective.

Thanks for this. I haven’t looked yet. The sfa eaters might be interesting.

 

[alywest]

Thanks for this. I haven’t looked yet. The sfa eaters might be interesting.

They're supposed to dissolve almost 100% of the actual progesterone so it would probably be great for someone who only needs a smaller dose such as yourself now that you're not estrogen dominant. I would unfortunately have to cut the top off and pour it over my body to get through a day of PMS-ing