Progest-e Or Not Progest-e, That Is The Question

[Laura]

Here is an interesting quote that was from a thread in October that I totally missed:

I WOULD LIKE A REFUND I BOUGHT 6 BOTTLES AS I AM IN AUSTRALIA.......IT IS A DISGRACE TO KNOW I HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF AGAIN BUYING OVER THE INTERNET.....I WILL BE EMAILING ELAINE HOLLINGSWORTH TOO

 

[Laura]

BLOODY TERRIBLE RAY PEAT IS A SCAM

 

[Herbie]

I am appalled to read this as Elaine Hollingsworth in Australia recommended it in her book Take Control of Your Health, l am still having hot flushes & bought 6 bottles since I am in Australia . l am having hormone testing soon but will never buy again

Did you read all of the reply's in this thread?

 

[Luckytype]

@Laura, Ray doesnt actually sell it himself. It was mentioned some separation that had to take place between Ray and his product. The people apparently have changed the formula.

This is likely separate from issues youre having with the vendor and your payment issue or computer issue. Malware and viruses can trick people with convincing looking popups.

I noticed in your post history you had some issues with a computer virus or some other issue, have you been able to get that figured out before doing anything. That would be a top priority for the safety of your own information.

If nothing else call your credit card company today and get the charge returned. If you ordered with a VISA they will certainly go after their own money.

As far as sourcing progesterone, IdeaLabs Online Store - Lab / R&D Chemicals is run by Haidut on this forum, very trusted source of great quality. I would recommend ordering from him AFTER you get your computer issue solved. Many of us order from him and trust him implicitely Progestene - Liquid Progesterone (bioidentical)


The other thing to consider if you are still feeling lousy is there is probably more that needs addressing beyond just hormonal replacement.

 

[Braveheart]

Did you read all of the reply's in this thread?

Laura, best read them all, for sure

 

[TreasureVibe]

So does Progest-E contain estrogenic substances/soy isoflavones or not? It still seems unclear to me...

 

[alywest]

@Laura There was a website that was saying that Progest-E contained soy isoflavones that I linked to at the beginning of the thread. After speaking to the president of Kenogen via email she assured me that this wasn't true at all, that the vitamin e was derived from soybeans, however the soy proteins themselves are not in the product and the e is carefully extracted so that no plant material remains.

From my own further research everyone has different reactions to progesterone. Rubbing it in the gums can cause a quick spike in progesterone levels but doesn't last long. It requires constantly reapplying to maintain, however it will up your levels the most quickly. I have found that applying it vaginally or rectally is the way to go, and I think progest-e would be a great product for that sort of application. I am sorry that I started a thread which was inflammatory toward Ray Peat, albeit unintentionally. I didn't believe that he was any longer involved in the company, and had read elsewhere on this forum that he had distanced himself due to a change in the formulation of Progest-E. I didn't create that rumor, but I perpetuated it without having any evidence from any quotes by him. I have since been unable to confirm any sort of truth to that rumor and it should definitely be put to rest because of this thread at the very least.

In closing, there are many options for progesterone on the market today. It seems that RP recommends Progest-E and I'm sure he has his reasons, and I trust his judgment on that. He has given a lot of very helpful advice that has improved my health, however I definitely recommend working with a reproductive health doctor if you are a woman to get yourself fully checked, including labs. Ray Peat generally speaks to research and his scientific interpretation of the data, as well as his condemnation of pharmaceutical company's self-serving behavior based on his observations. However, unless you are speaking to him directly I would continue to work with a doctor or at least someone with an MA who specializes in hormone balancing. If they are pushing things on you that you don't agree with, find someone else.

 

[tara]

BLOODY TERRIBLE [blah blah ...]

I don't know if you were deliberately trolling or just upset and confused.

As I understand it, the reason Peat initially separated himself from the production of the formula he patented was because that was necessary to allow him to keep publishing his ideas about how it could be helpful without conflict of interest issues arising. I don't think he's been making money from the sale of it. The product has since changed somewhat. Many people apparently still find it very helpful, and I believe Peat has continued to recommend it, even though it does not follow his original patented formula as closely in recent years.

If it is the product you are finding to not work as you hoped, then that is the product, and I don't know why you would be shouting about Peat himself being a 'scam' on that basis - unless you have rather a lot of evidence to substantiate such an extreme accusation. Nor would I assume that there is something wrong with the product itself just because it is not instantly solving all your particular problems. Fair enough to question, but shouting about scams, and making various other accusations without checking facts is OTT. There may be good reasons why it didn't work for you, for instance to do with your personal needs, dosage, nutrition, other factors, etc.

Maybe next time you will give something new a try to see if it is helpful to you before you invest in lots of bottles.

I have no affiliation with the product, and am not claiming that it is perfect etc. Maybe there is something about it that is problematic for some people, I don't know. Certainly I can imagine that it is not what everyone needs at all times. I do know that quite a few people report good effects too, consistent with it's theoretical progesterone activity.
Nor do I claim that Peat is infallible - I assume that he makes honest mistakes sometimes as everyone does, and that it's reasonable to look at the evidence for his claims, etc (not that I'm seeing evidence of a problem here).
Just looking to keep things in perspective, and to maintain a standard of respect.

 

[artist]

Laura this is how you sound

 

[johnsmith]

Would topical Progestene or CortiNon with some Vitamin-E (TocoVit) rubbed in with it be a good idea?

 

[alywest]

Laura this is how you sound

That's how I feel sometimes when I go to the apple store.

 

[alywest]

Would topical Progestene or CortiNon with some Vitamin-E (TocoVit) rubbed in with it be a good idea?

I don't think that's necessary as haidut designed the solvent to absorb quickly which is good. I would just use the TocoVit separately.

 

[Jennifer]

In closing, there are many options for progesterone on the market today. It seems that RP recommends Progest-E and I'm sure he has his reasons, and I trust his judgment on that. He has given a lot of very helpful advice that has improved my health, however I definitely recommend working with a reproductive health doctor if you are a woman to get yourself fully checked, including labs. Ray Peat generally speaks to research and his scientific interpretation of the data, as well as his condemnation of pharmaceutical company's self-serving behavior based on his observations. However, unless you are speaking to him directly I would continue to work with a doctor or at least someone with an MA who specializes in hormone balancing. If they are pushing things on you that you don't agree with, find someone else.

Well said. I agree 100%!

 

[Laura]

Thank you it is good to read all these reviews and to know that maybe this Progest e oil is still good

 

[Laura]

So I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E. So in wondering what in the product is not good that would cause RP to walk away like that and I saw that they decided to use 'soy isoflavones.'

Here is a quote from RP:

The estrogenic properties of legumes were studied when sheep farmers found that their sheep miscarried when they ate clover. (I think it's interesting how this terribly toxic effect has been neglected in recent decades.) All legumes have this property, and all parts of the plant seem to contain some of the active chemicals. In beans, several substances have been found to contribute to the effect. The estrogenic effects of the seed oils and the isoflavones have been studied the most, but the well-known antithyroid actions (again, involving the oils, the isoflavones, and other molecules found in legumes) have an indirect estrogen-promoting action, since hypothyroidism leads to hyperestrogenism. (Estrogens are known to be thyroid suppressors, so the problem tends to be self-accelerating.) ( Natural Estrogens )

Hmmm, seems a bit counterintuitive to use an estrogenic product in a progesterone oil. When I used PRogest-e I had a lot of breast pain but I attributed it to the estrogens being loosened from my tissues. Now that I use another oil, I don't have breast pain and feel that I'm making better progress in restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen.

Thoughts?

YES THIS MAKES ME WONDER ABOUT BUYING FROM KENOGEN AND BUYING PRGEST E- I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST AND LAST ....l BOUGHT 6 BOTTLES AND STILL HAVE 3 LEFT

 

[tomisonbottom]

So I think I came across someone pointing out that Progest-e is not good, and that is why RP walked away from the company Kenogen despite the fact that he patented the process of dissolving the progesterone in vitamin e. That seems like a pretty significant stand to take and I'm surprised that people on this forum are still purchasing Progest-E. So in wondering what in the product is not good that would cause RP to walk away like that and I saw that they decided to use 'soy isoflavones.'

Here is a quote from RP:

The estrogenic properties of legumes were studied when sheep farmers found that their sheep miscarried when they ate clover. (I think it's interesting how this terribly toxic effect has been neglected in recent decades.) All legumes have this property, and all parts of the plant seem to contain some of the active chemicals. In beans, several substances have been found to contribute to the effect. The estrogenic effects of the seed oils and the isoflavones have been studied the most, but the well-known antithyroid actions (again, involving the oils, the isoflavones, and other molecules found in legumes) have an indirect estrogen-promoting action, since hypothyroidism leads to hyperestrogenism. (Estrogens are known to be thyroid suppressors, so the problem tends to be self-accelerating.) ( Natural Estrogens )

Hmmm, seems a bit counterintuitive to use an estrogenic product in a progesterone oil. When I used PRogest-e I had a lot of breast pain but I attributed it to the estrogens being loosened from my tissues. Now that I use another oil, I don't have breast pain and feel that I'm making better progress in restoring the balance between progesterone and estrogen.

Thoughts?

I am appalled to read this as Elaine Hollingsworth in Australia recommended it in her book Take Control of Your Health, l am still having hot flushes & bought 6 bottles since I am in Australia . l am having hormone testing soon but will never buy again

YES THIS MAKES ME WONDER ABOUT BUYING FROM KENOGEN AND BUYING PRGEST E- I THINK THAT WAS THE FIRST AND LAST ....l BOUGHT 6 BOTTLES AND STILL HAVE 3 LEFT

Laura, not sure why you keep skipping over Ray's contradiction of this erroneous info, but I posted his response to that info below.
Your outrage is based on a fallacy, so no need to be upset.

I sent this to Ray and this is his response:

The first part is a complete fabrication. If the person making the statement, including the remark that “they had decided to use soy isoflavones,” can’t provide the source, it should be assumed to have been invented by that person. The second part is at best a non sequitur: Quoting something I had said about the estrogenic effects of the legumes, their isoflavones and polyunsaturated fatty acids, and then to say that an estrogenic product has been used in a progesterone oil. Progest-E Complex contains neither. Both pure vitamin E and progesterone are strongly antiestrogenic. Such lack of contact with reality should make a reader question the rest of the statement. Does the person use a pseudonym? The defamatory statements are clearly malicious, so I’m interested in knowing the identity of their author.

 

[tara]

YES THIS MAKES ME

No need to shout.

 

[energyandstruct]

ray peat said to me that he doesn't know where this information came from, that kenogen continues to consult him and use high quality ingredients, no soy. I don't see soy listed on their packaging. why spread these rumors? what is the source?

 

[johnwester130]

OnasNatural

They sent me a free bottle due to an ordering problem.

Much better customer service, and the bottle is bigger too , 56ml

 

[Tenacity]

Progest-e is working for me, it makes my skin very clear and takes away the anxiety I get as a result of my dysautonomia.

To dispel a myth in this thread: Peat did not 'walk away' from Progest-E because he disagrees with its formula. As he has said in several e-mails, the formula has not changed. If I remember rightly (although I can't find the source right now), it was something to do with the fact that he couldn't continue to write about progesterone whilst also making money from Progest-E, for whatever reason. That says a lot about his intentions, in my opinion.