Progest-e Or Not Progest-e, That Is The Question

ddjd

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I have been getting the forefront health brand, however I'm thinking about switching to health natura because it's a bit cheaper and seems to have comparable ingredients. For me the best method of use seems to be the gums in vitamin e solution.
i heard the health natura product in alcohol base is very good
 

Peaterpeater

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Why not use Idealabs progestene? Is it because of the DMSO? So both Forefront Health and Health Natura use vitamin E in their product that is not derived from soy?
 
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alywest

alywest

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Why not use Idealabs progestene? Is it because of the DMSO? So both Forefront Health and Health Natura use vitamin E in their product that is not derived from soy?

For some reason I only notice any improvement when I rub it into my gums so the progestene doesn't work for my needs, but it's a good product. Forefront Health, Health Natura and this Ona's progesterone cream and oil all say soy-free. Ona's is a nice product, it has up to 20% progesterone!!!!
 
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alywest

alywest

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So I just came across this other thread VERY Tender Breasts!
and the OP talks about her tender breasts and how she was using a product called "progesterall" and had the pain, then switched to progest-e and had the same thing. So I looked up progesterall to see if there were any comparable ingredients. I was losing hope then suddenly, last ingredient...none other than our friend TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (vitamin e that's derived from soy). Thoughts?
 

Peaterpeater

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Aly, its possible that the problem lies in that progesterone is a precursor to cortisol and androstenedione. Andro is also a precursor to testosterone which can ultimately aromatize into estrogen? Thus causing the engorged sore breasts? The increase in estrogen can stimulate prolactin increase in the pituitary and thereby creating further engorgment & soreness? I don't understand how or why this conversion to estrogen happens sometimes and not other times.....it's probably dose dependent. Please someone chime in if my statements are inaccurate.....
 

mjs

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been using progest e for 1,5 week now.
I'm using 3 drops (but a drop of this gelly is more then a normal drop I'm sure) twice a day now. Sometimes a few drops extra when I feel like it. At times I do notice I'm more open and loving towards people I know, and more grounded.

Over the days I felt soreness in my feet. And a slight sluggish wakeup. This morning I feel like I'm having a hungover.

So I'm sure this is a sign my liver goes through a hard time detoxing hidden estrogen. Is it a wise thing to up the dose? Would that help the detox process or only worsen it? Or would this just be phase and gone after 3 weeks of use.

I've been aware of my food and pufa's for some years now. Just can't believe there is so much estrogen to deal with that my liver can't cope.
Any advice?
 
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Braveheart

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Definetly could use an expert to chime in here...lots of good/important questions.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Did u say that you don't end up with sore breasts using a different product?
I have been doing ok with the forefront health product but I'm thinking Im going to switch because there are more economical options.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Aly, its possible that the problem lies in that progesterone is a precursor to cortisol and androstenedione. Andro is also a precursor to testosterone which can ultimately aromatize into estrogen? Thus causing the engorged sore breasts? The increase in estrogen can stimulate prolactin increase in the pituitary and thereby creating further engorgment & soreness? I don't understand how or why this conversion to estrogen happens sometimes and not other times.....it's probably dose dependent. Please someone chime in if my statements are inaccurate.....

I honestly don't believe so, I think perhaps the problems are from the difficulty some people have with vitamin e, especially in such a concentrated form. That is the conclusion that I've come to. It sounds like a lot of people just have a hard time with vitamin e and they have to find the one that works for them, that their bodies can handle. Also I've noticed some of the other ones have a thinner texture so maybe the vitamin e is less concentrated in the MCT oil.

I do think that the excess estrogen being taken out of the tissues is the other part of the equation and perhaps some of the progesterone supplements don't force the estrogen out of the tissues as quickly. I think most estrogen dominant people have liver issues (sluggish livers) so that makes it all the more challenging. I also think if you are continuing to eat things like gluten when you take progesterone you're probably adding to that burden and putting your body in a stressed out state, as gluten mimics estrogen from what I understand. So if you're not doing the diet part of not eating certain foods, and your thyroid is sluggish and your liver is also struggling to keep up with the demand because of foods that you can't handle, then you're probably going to have issues like I have with Progest-E. I think part of why the different supplements have worked out better is because I have already gone through a few months of detoxing estrogen, however I still have a long way to go.

However, the past few mornings when I have woken up with a headache I used a moderate amount of progesterone (about 50mg) and the headache went away. I would have normally had to take and excedrin migraine if it went on for too long. I also took aspirin and had some caffeine, but those things alone did not help much at all. I am not even two weeks into my cycle, so I've been having to take the progesterone when it's not advised to take it, but it's worth it to avoid a headache. I don't use it around the clock during these first two weeks like I did before as well, but I do during the second half of the month.

@smid - I would cut down on the progesterone until you stop having the symptoms, like do one drop at night and then go up from there.
 
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alywest

alywest

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@alywest I take progesterone from Idealabs topically and I have great results from it. Have you tried it?
Yes I did, for some reason I need to take progesterone orally or it doesn't work for me. I could technically do that with progestene but it would be a lot of drops to get the quantity that I'm going for.
 

milk_lover

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Yes I did, for some reason I need to take progesterone orally or it doesn't work for me. I could technically do that with progestene but it would be a lot of drops to get the quantity that I'm going for.
Maybe women need much more progesterone than men. I take 3 drops of progestene on my wrist and I honestly feel great.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Maybe women need much more progesterone than men. I take 3 drops of progestene on my wrist and I honestly feel great.

I think it depends how estrogen dominant you are and because I'm hypothyroid I think my estrogen dominance was pretty high. Of course it does vary with my cycle and it get's pretty bad right at the end of my cycle if I don't take plenty of progesterone. The first two weeks of the month I think my progesterone needs are similar to yours. MAybe I could try progestene for the first two weeks of the month. Does it make you drowsy at all?
 

milk_lover

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I think it depends how estrogen dominant you are and because I'm hypothyroid I think my estrogen dominance was pretty high. Of course it does vary with my cycle and it get's pretty bad right at the end of my cycle if I don't take plenty of progesterone. The first two weeks of the month I think my progesterone needs are similar to yours. MAybe I could try progestene for the first two weeks of the month. Does it make you drowsy at all?
Does estrogen increase a lot during the last two weeks of women cycles in general? I was under the impression that estrogen is at its highest before the period.

I take usually three drops of Progestene with one drop of Pansterone (DHEA/preg) so that's why I don't feel as drowsy as expected. DHEA, I think, is a big reason for that. I do this three times a day and one of them is in the morning. I also try to drink coke or sugared milk with energin and glycine to increase metabolism and curb the drowsiness.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Does estrogen increase a lot during the last two weeks of women cycles in general? I was under the impression that estrogen is at its highest before the period.

I take usually three drops of Progestene with one drop of Pansterone (DHEA/preg) so that's why I don't feel as drowsy as expected. DHEA, I think, is a big reason for that. I do this three times a day and one of them is in the morning. I also try to drink coke or sugared milk with energin and glycine to increase metabolism and curb the drowsiness.

In a normal cycle estrogen rises during the first two weeks while progesterone doesn't rise at all, then you ovulate, the estrogen drops and then you are supposed to have more progesterone than estrogen during the last two weeks. If you're estrogen dominant, though, it will rise to be in too high proportion. I've never had mine measured but if I don't take progesterone that is usually when I start to get headaches and have super pms symptoms, especially if I eat gluten.
 
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Braveheart

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Does estrogen increase a lot during the last two weeks of women cycles in general? I was under the impression that estrogen is at its highest before the period.

I take usually three drops of Progestene with one drop of Pansterone (DHEA/preg) so that's why I don't feel as drowsy as expected. DHEA, I think, is a big reason for that. I do this three times a day and one of them is in the morning. I also try to drink coke or sugared milk with energin and glycine to increase metabolism and curb the drowsiness.

So, like RP, you take 15 mg progest ....and he takes 5mg dhea
 

milk_lover

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In a normal cycle estrogen rises during the first two weeks while progesterone doesn't rise at all, then you ovulate, the estrogen drops and then you are supposed to have more progesterone than estrogen during the last two weeks. If you're estrogen dominant, though, it will rise to be in too high proportion. I've never had mine measured but if I don't take progesterone that is usually when I start to get headaches and have super pms symptoms, especially if I eat gluten.
Thanks for the explanation. Yeah that makes sense. When I am not at my best hormone wise, I don't tolerate bread!
So, like RP, you take 15 mg progest ....and he takes 5mg dhea
yeah 15 mg progesterone with 3.75 mg DHEA. I ordered the new Cortinon which has a ratio of 1 to 1 so I might take extra progestene with it to control DHEA from turning to estrogen.
 
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alywest

alywest

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Here is the response I got from Kenogen:

It could be that some people have issues with anything soy derived, and that a different brand would work better for them. I have noticed that the pattern of continuous use is common in the small number of people who associate the product with undesirable symptoms. When I asked Dr. Peat about this, he emailed some information explaining why continuous use without breaks can backfire. He explained it better than I could, so I’ll send you a copy of his explanation as soon as I locate his email.

Many people have mentioned that it can knock out a migraine very quickly, but I know Dr. Peat believes that migraines can be triggered by food allergies, and are more common in those with a low thyroid. Identifying a food allergy can take patience. Eliminating a particular food completely for a week or two, one food at a time, can help identify the offending food(s). Have you had your thyroid checked?

Distillation is the method used to derive the vitamin E from soy oil.

Sincerely,
Kxxx
 
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alywest

alywest

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Aly, its possible that the problem lies in that progesterone is a precursor to cortisol and androstenedione. Andro is also a precursor to testosterone which can ultimately aromatize into estrogen? Thus causing the engorged sore breasts? The increase in estrogen can stimulate prolactin increase in the pituitary and thereby creating further engorgment & soreness? I don't understand how or why this conversion to estrogen happens sometimes and not other times.....it's probably dose dependent. Please someone chime in if my statements are inaccurate.....

Perhaps this is what happens if you take a continuous dose instead of taking a break.
 

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