Problem With Ice Cream Fat/sugar Combo?

peateats1

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Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
284
Does anyone have a guess as to why eating Haagen Das ice cream (around a pint of it) would cause dry mouth, sweet smelling skin, dark concentrated urine, and muscle cramps?
Mct oil, small amounts of butter, and coconut oil don't seem to cause this same reaction. I know it's the ice cream because I've tested this theory over and over with the same results. Is it the fat/sugar combo that is not necessarily healthy if the body is already struggling? I'm confused lol
(My blood sugar always runs normal to low, never is elevated much, so I don't think it's typical diabetes related)
 

Dissonance

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
10
I was reading about this earlier actually! I don’t experience all those symptoms but definitely feel “off” eating ice cream. Turns out is goes back to the Randle Cycle and how it’s best to eat carbs on the own and fats on their own for the most part (a little bit of overlap won’t kill ya. I’m new, so I can’t post links but the thread titled “Food Combinations- sugar, fat” is really good. Here is an excellent answer by the user macaroot:

“t amazes me, for as brilliant as Ray Peat is in some regards, he doesn't seem to grasp how the human digestive system really works and processes food.

Many of you are failing on this diet. In fact, most of you are. Let's call a spade a spade. Why? Because you're eating highly unusual food combinations, which do not agree with the human digestive system.

I saw a recent video of Ray Peat fanboy Danny Roddy. He was terribly jaundiced in the video. I'm surprised he posted it. He has clear indications of a liver disorder. And it's absolutely due to his diet.

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

You can get away with such combinations as milk with fruit, but it has to be fat free milk. Ditto goes for coffee with milk and sugar. It's a healthy beverage when it's fat free milk. It's REALLY bad when you use whole milk or even 2%. Fruit and cheese is a bad mixture. Wine and cheese is ok, because alcohol thins the blood and somewhat negates the negative effect of the fat/sugar combo.

Ice cream is not healthy any way you spin it. I'm sorry. It's not, unless fat free or low fat. Some of you may claim better sleep from it, which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an unhealthy combo, which will inevitably lead to fatty liver conditions and stomach disorders.

Coconut oil can be healthy. But in the absence of sugar. It's not as bad with starches because starches take longer to digest. But sugar and coconut oil? Forget it.

Ray Peat seems blind to this pretty common knowledge. I love Ray Peat, don't get me wrong. His work is profound and groundbreaking. He just seems to have no clue how digestion really works.

He knows what foods are best to eat, but not the manner in which they should be eaten.

Saying you should eat protein at every meal is irresponsible. To "balance blood sugar" is the claim. If he had any idea how the digestive system worked, he would realize it's not that cut and dry. Nothing will spike your blood sugar worse, and elevate your liver enzymes more quickly than poorly digested meals.

Eat carbs with fat free sources and low protein.
Eat proteins and fats together.
Starches can be mixed with proteins ok.
Coffee with fat free milk and sugar, great beverage.

Oh, while I'm at it, get off the whole store-bought orange juice thing. Bottled orange juice is HORRIBLE for you. I don't know one person alive who digests it correctly. It's full of toxins, acids, enzyme inhibitors, and digestive irritants. Leave it alone. ONLY drink fresh squeezed orange juice. You're in trouble if you reach for Tropicana. That stuff is poison.”
 

Dissonance

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Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
10
I think macaroot was a bit extreme in his views, but his standpoint is an interesting possible explanation.
 

michael94

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Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
2,419
It’s a lot of fat to digest not everyone does well with that. Had similar issue with haagen dazs
 

Nicole W.

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
583
I was reading about this earlier actually! I don’t experience all those symptoms but definitely feel “off” eating ice cream. Turns out is goes back to the Randle Cycle and how it’s best to eat carbs on the own and fats on their own for the most part (a little bit of overlap won’t kill ya. I’m new, so I can’t post links but the thread titled “Food Combinations- sugar, fat” is really good. Here is an excellent answer by the user macaroot:

“t amazes me, for as brilliant as Ray Peat is in some regards, he doesn't seem to grasp how the human digestive system really works and processes food.

Many of you are failing on this diet. In fact, most of you are. Let's call a spade a spade. Why? Because you're eating highly unusual food combinations, which do not agree with the human digestive system.

I saw a recent video of Ray Peat fanboy Danny Roddy. He was terribly jaundiced in the video. I'm surprised he posted it. He has clear indications of a liver disorder. And it's absolutely due to his diet.

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

You can get away with such combinations as milk with fruit, but it has to be fat free milk. Ditto goes for coffee with milk and sugar. It's a healthy beverage when it's fat free milk. It's REALLY bad when you use whole milk or even 2%. Fruit and cheese is a bad mixture. Wine and cheese is ok, because alcohol thins the blood and somewhat negates the negative effect of the fat/sugar combo.

Ice cream is not healthy any way you spin it. I'm sorry. It's not, unless fat free or low fat. Some of you may claim better sleep from it, which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an unhealthy combo, which will inevitably lead to fatty liver conditions and stomach disorders.

Coconut oil can be healthy. But in the absence of sugar. It's not as bad with starches because starches take longer to digest. But sugar and coconut oil? Forget it.

Ray Peat seems blind to this pretty common knowledge. I love Ray Peat, don't get me wrong. His work is profound and groundbreaking. He just seems to have no clue how digestion really works.

He knows what foods are best to eat, but not the manner in which they should be eaten.

Saying you should eat protein at every meal is irresponsible. To "balance blood sugar" is the claim. If he had any idea how the digestive system worked, he would realize it's not that cut and dry. Nothing will spike your blood sugar worse, and elevate your liver enzymes more quickly than poorly digested meals.

Eat carbs with fat free sources and low protein.
Eat proteins and fats together.
Starches can be mixed with proteins ok.
Coffee with fat free milk and sugar, great beverage.

Oh, while I'm at it, get off the whole store-bought orange juice thing. Bottled orange juice is HORRIBLE for you. I don't know one person alive who digests it correctly. It's full of toxins, acids, enzyme inhibitors, and digestive irritants. Leave it alone. ONLY drink fresh squeezed orange juice. You're in trouble if you reach for Tropicana. That stuff is poison.”
Hello,

I read this and it occurred to me that I can not think of one culture, ancient or otherwise, that only eats carbs alone or only eats fats and proteins alone. And yet we are all still here... whole societies in fact, who are recklessly mixing macros together in haphazard yet delicious ways are mostly thriving. Is this a food hygiene philosophy that you are basing your opinions on? I’m just wondering if you could point to any society or group of people that observe these dietary rules and have demonstrated extraordinary health as a result because honestly I can’t think of any.
 

Dissonance

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
10
Hello,

I read this and it occurred to me that I can not think of one culture, ancient or otherwise, that only eats carbs alone or only eats fats and proteins alone. And yet we are all still here... whole societies in fact, who are recklessly mixing macros together in haphazard yet delicious ways are mostly thriving. Is this a food hygiene philosophy that you are basing your opinions on? I’m just wondering if you could point to any society or group of people that observe these dietary rules and have demonstrated extraordinary health as a result because honestly I can’t think of any.

So, I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as the guy I referenced was making it out to be, but I believe there is some conflict. The randle cycle dictates that fat digestion is at odds with sugar digestion. I doubt this is much of an issue eating a piece of cheese with some fruit. I’ve never experienced problems there. However, REALLY fatty foods coupled with sugar seem to create an issue. I personally experience nausea when I eat a little too much chocolate or ice cream. To be fair, I think that chocolate is an intense substance in its own right, but I never have such a reaction drinking whole milk/cream on its own. I’ve seen a number of people on this forum complain that they’ve gained weight while eating “peaty” and I believe high fat coupled with high sugar in the same meals to be the cause. Not that past humans never mixed these substances, but only the very wealthy experienced our current extreme abundance which allows us to mix food groups so liberally and so often.
All in all, not the end of the world, but might be of concern for those with compromised digestive systems or looking to loose weight.
 

Nicole W.

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
583
So, I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as the guy I referenced was making it out to be, but I believe there is some conflict. The randle cycle dictates that fat digestion is at odds with sugar digestion. I doubt this is much of an issue eating a piece of cheese with some fruit. I’ve never experienced problems there. However, REALLY fatty foods coupled with sugar seem to create an issue. I personally experience nausea when I eat a little too much chocolate or ice cream. To be fair, I think that chocolate is an intense substance in its own right, but I never have such a reaction drinking whole milk/cream on its own. I’ve seen a number of people on this forum complain that they’ve gained weight while eating “peaty” and I believe high fat coupled with high sugar in the same meals to be the cause. Not that past humans never mixed these substances, but only the very wealthy experienced our current extreme abundance which allows us to mix food groups so liberally and so often.
All in all, not the end of the world, but might be of concern for those with compromised digestive systems or looking to loose weight.
A lot of people who are here have long standing health problems they are trying to address with improved dietary choices. It is often the case that when an individual starts to recover from an illness they gain weight. This can happen regardless of the nutritious foods consumed...it could happen on a Peat inspired diet or not. This phenomenon that was well established in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. Weight gain can be part of the healing process and is not necessarily a bad thing. When the body is healed, weight normalizes. Also, someone here on the forum conducted a little experiment separating carbs from fat and, as I recall, found no benefit at all.

I understand the argument in favor of separating carbs and fat, but in practice humankind has NEVER eaten that way so I suspect that after millennia of consuming which ever foods were available, our bodies have learned to manage multiple macros at once.
 

redsun

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Messages
3,013
I was reading about this earlier actually! I don’t experience all those symptoms but definitely feel “off” eating ice cream. Turns out is goes back to the Randle Cycle and how it’s best to eat carbs on the own and fats on their own for the most part (a little bit of overlap won’t kill ya. I’m new, so I can’t post links but the thread titled “Food Combinations- sugar, fat” is really good. Here is an excellent answer by the user macaroot:

“t amazes me, for as brilliant as Ray Peat is in some regards, he doesn't seem to grasp how the human digestive system really works and processes food.

Many of you are failing on this diet. In fact, most of you are. Let's call a spade a spade. Why? Because you're eating highly unusual food combinations, which do not agree with the human digestive system.

I saw a recent video of Ray Peat fanboy Danny Roddy. He was terribly jaundiced in the video. I'm surprised he posted it. He has clear indications of a liver disorder. And it's absolutely due to his diet.

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

You can get away with such combinations as milk with fruit, but it has to be fat free milk. Ditto goes for coffee with milk and sugar. It's a healthy beverage when it's fat free milk. It's REALLY bad when you use whole milk or even 2%. Fruit and cheese is a bad mixture. Wine and cheese is ok, because alcohol thins the blood and somewhat negates the negative effect of the fat/sugar combo.

Ice cream is not healthy any way you spin it. I'm sorry. It's not, unless fat free or low fat. Some of you may claim better sleep from it, which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an unhealthy combo, which will inevitably lead to fatty liver conditions and stomach disorders.

Coconut oil can be healthy. But in the absence of sugar. It's not as bad with starches because starches take longer to digest. But sugar and coconut oil? Forget it.

Ray Peat seems blind to this pretty common knowledge. I love Ray Peat, don't get me wrong. His work is profound and groundbreaking. He just seems to have no clue how digestion really works.

He knows what foods are best to eat, but not the manner in which they should be eaten.

Saying you should eat protein at every meal is irresponsible. To "balance blood sugar" is the claim. If he had any idea how the digestive system worked, he would realize it's not that cut and dry. Nothing will spike your blood sugar worse, and elevate your liver enzymes more quickly than poorly digested meals.

Eat carbs with fat free sources and low protein.
Eat proteins and fats together.
Starches can be mixed with proteins ok.
Coffee with fat free milk and sugar, great beverage.

Oh, while I'm at it, get off the whole store-bought orange juice thing. Bottled orange juice is HORRIBLE for you. I don't know one person alive who digests it correctly. It's full of toxins, acids, enzyme inhibitors, and digestive irritants. Leave it alone. ONLY drink fresh squeezed orange juice. You're in trouble if you reach for Tropicana. That stuff is poison.”

I dont know what you are getting at, but glucose and fatty acids are always in the blood stream at any given time. They both provide energy to the body. There is nothing wrong with carbs and fat in a meal. Of course, ones diet should be mostly carbs for energy but saying fat with carbs in a meal together is bad for you is just plain wrong. It doesnt make digestion worse, if anything fat helps digestion, Peat has stated this and I myself have personal experience with this. I get incredibly smooth digestion when I have meals that are high in carbs, good amounts of protein, then some fats there, fats being the lowest quantity. The problem is many people here overeat on fat as soon as they found out saturated fats are good for them and carbs + fat cause weight gain. Its easy to over eat fat with sugars. Thats how desserts work.

Weak digestion is low T3, not because you are eating carbs and fat together, or wrong food combining or whatever you seem to think. T3 directly increases stomach acid production and sufficient stomach acid is what is responsible for good digestion.

Carbs only meals is number one dumb dumb way to increase serotonin. This is literally Peat 101. Carbs alone will increase serotonin as tryptophan is left in the bloodstream with no competing AAs as they all get shuttled off by insulin. This happens when we have insulin increasing from a meal that does not contain protein

You should eat protein in every meal. Protein is literally the most important macronutrient full stop. Every inch of us is literally made of protein for god's sake. Our brain operates because of neurotransmitters which are derived from amino acids. Acetylcholine needs choline which is mostly derived dietarily from proteins. Without raw material(protein) nothing works. Brain function dwindles without sufficient AAs for neurotransmitters. Organs shrink, muscles shrink, immune system turns to goo, hormone production plummets. Proteins are needed as transporters to move things around. They are needed for enzymes. There is literally no process that doesn't involve amino acids one way or another.

Every time you eat you should have protein. Its protein that keeps our organs, especially liver, functioning. I never understood this anti-protein nonsense. You have ketoers and high carb folk, the only thing they have in common is protein. Protein is the limiting factor in regeneration and repair. The western world has many who are chronically protein deficient thanks to our governments saying we need like what 50-60g a day for the average person? The last thing anyone should be doing is avoiding proteins or eating proteins only at specific times. Your body doesnt need protein once or twice a day when you eat only protein and fat. It needs protein constantly, more so then any other macro. You wonder why we have so many men walking around with toothpick arms and not an ounce of muscle which indicates terrible hormonal status, liver disease, NAFLD, mental illness, hypothyroidism on the rise.

Food combining ideas are dumb on their own, but the fact that indirectly one ends up avoiding protein at times because it doesnt mix with carbs is literally the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

Fatty liver isnt caused by icecream or any food similar to it, its caused by low protein intake as protein is needed for the liver to detox and low protein always translates to low intake of lipotropics, namely cysteine, methionine, and choline.
 
OP
P

peateats1

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
284
I was reading about this earlier actually! I don’t experience all those symptoms but definitely feel “off” eating ice cream. Turns out is goes back to the Randle Cycle and how it’s best to eat carbs on the own and fats on their own for the most part (a little bit of overlap won’t kill ya. I’m new, so I can’t post links but the thread titled “Food Combinations- sugar, fat” is really good. Here is an excellent answer by the user macaroot:

“t amazes me, for as brilliant as Ray Peat is in some regards, he doesn't seem to grasp how the human digestive system really works and processes food.

Many of you are failing on this diet. In fact, most of you are. Let's call a spade a spade. Why? Because you're eating highly unusual food combinations, which do not agree with the human digestive system.

I saw a recent video of Ray Peat fanboy Danny Roddy. He was terribly jaundiced in the video. I'm surprised he posted it. He has clear indications of a liver disorder. And it's absolutely due to his diet.

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

You can get away with such combinations as milk with fruit, but it has to be fat free milk. Ditto goes for coffee with milk and sugar. It's a healthy beverage when it's fat free milk. It's REALLY bad when you use whole milk or even 2%. Fruit and cheese is a bad mixture. Wine and cheese is ok, because alcohol thins the blood and somewhat negates the negative effect of the fat/sugar combo.

Ice cream is not healthy any way you spin it. I'm sorry. It's not, unless fat free or low fat. Some of you may claim better sleep from it, which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an unhealthy combo, which will inevitably lead to fatty liver conditions and stomach disorders.

Coconut oil can be healthy. But in the absence of sugar. It's not as bad with starches because starches take longer to digest. But sugar and coconut oil? Forget it.

Ray Peat seems blind to this pretty common knowledge. I love Ray Peat, don't get me wrong. His work is profound and groundbreaking. He just seems to have no clue how digestion really works.

He knows what foods are best to eat, but not the manner in which they should be eaten.

Saying you should eat protein at every meal is irresponsible. To "balance blood sugar" is the claim. If he had any idea how the digestive system worked, he would realize it's not that cut and dry. Nothing will spike your blood sugar worse, and elevate your liver enzymes more quickly than poorly digested meals.

Eat carbs with fat free sources and low protein.
Eat proteins and fats together.
Starches can be mixed with proteins ok.
Coffee with fat free milk and sugar, great beverage.

Oh, while I'm at it, get off the whole store-bought orange juice thing. Bottled orange juice is HORRIBLE for you. I don't know one person alive who digests it correctly. It's full of toxins, acids, enzyme inhibitors, and digestive irritants. Leave it alone. ONLY drink fresh squeezed orange juice. You're in trouble if you reach for Tropicana. That stuff is poison.”
Thank you for this post! This is great information!
 

Birdie

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Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,783
Location
USA
Does anyone have a guess as to why eating Haagen Das ice cream (around a pint of it) would cause dry mouth, sweet smelling skin, dark concentrated urine, and muscle cramps?
Mct oil, small amounts of butter, and coconut oil don't seem to cause this same reaction. I know it's the ice cream because I've tested this theory over and over with the same results. Is it the fat/sugar combo that is not necessarily healthy if the body is already struggling? I'm confused lol
(My blood sugar always runs normal to low, never is elevated much, so I don't think it's typical diabetes related)
Are you eating ice cream alone? Ray recommends combining it with fruit rather than alone.

My husband mixes plain greek yogurt with applesauce, then adds ice cream.
I have it alone but close to other food.

And amounts matter. A pint is a lot to eat by itself.
I'd say about 1/4 or half that amount with equal amounts of fruit, or double fruit.
 
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peateats1

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Apr 3, 2013
Messages
284
Are you eating ice cream alone? Ray recommends combining it with fruit rather than alone.

My husband mixes plain greek yogurt with applesauce, then adds ice cream.
I have it alone but close to other food.

And amounts matter. A pint is a lot to eat by itself.
I'd say about 1/4 or half that amount with equal amounts of fruit, or double fruit.
Yes, I was eating it alone...can I ask why it should be combined with fruit?
 
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peateats1

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Apr 3, 2013
Messages
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I dont know what you are getting at, but glucose and fatty acids are always in the blood stream at any given time. They both provide energy to the body. There is nothing wrong with carbs and fat in a meal. Of course, ones diet should be mostly carbs for energy but saying fat with carbs in a meal together is bad for you is just plain wrong. It doesnt make digestion worse, if anything fat helps digestion, Peat has stated this and I myself have personal experience with this. I get incredibly smooth digestion when I have meals that are high in carbs, good amounts of protein, then some fats there, fats being the lowest quantity. The problem is many people here overeat on fat as soon as they found out saturated fats are good for them and carbs + fat cause weight gain. Its easy to over eat fat with sugars. Thats how desserts work.

Weak digestion is low T3, not because you are eating carbs and fat together, or wrong food combining or whatever you seem to think. T3 directly increases stomach acid production and sufficient stomach acid is what is responsible for good digestion.

Carbs only meals is number one dumb dumb way to increase serotonin. This is literally Peat 101. Carbs alone will increase serotonin as tryptophan is left in the bloodstream with no competing AAs as they all get shuttled off by insulin. This happens when we have insulin increasing from a meal that does not contain protein

You should eat protein in every meal. Protein is literally the most important macronutrient full stop. Every inch of us is literally made of protein for god's sake. Our brain operates because of neurotransmitters which are derived from amino acids. Acetylcholine needs choline which is mostly derived dietarily from proteins. Without raw material(protein) nothing works. Brain function dwindles without sufficient AAs for neurotransmitters. Organs shrink, muscles shrink, immune system turns to goo, hormone production plummets. Proteins are needed as transporters to move things around. They are needed for enzymes. There is literally no process that doesn't involve amino acids one way or another.

Every time you eat you should have protein. Its protein that keeps our organs, especially liver, functioning. I never understood this anti-protein nonsense. You have ketoers and high carb folk, the only thing they have in common is protein. Protein is the limiting factor in regeneration and repair. The western world has many who are chronically protein deficient thanks to our governments saying we need like what 50-60g a day for the average person? The last thing anyone should be doing is avoiding proteins or eating proteins only at specific times. Your body doesnt need protein once or twice a day when you eat only protein and fat. It needs protein constantly, more so then any other macro. You wonder why we have so many men walking around with toothpick arms and not an ounce of muscle which indicates terrible hormonal status, liver disease, NAFLD, mental illness, hypothyroidism on the rise.

Food combining ideas are dumb on their own, but the fact that indirectly one ends up avoiding protein at times because it doesnt mix with carbs is literally the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

Fatty liver isnt caused by icecream or any food similar to it, its caused by low protein intake as protein is needed for the liver to detox and low protein always translates to low intake of lipotropics, namely cysteine, methionine, and choline.
Thank you for your post! I'll look into this further. Some days I probably don't get enough protein...Also, I definitely feel like the ice cream by itself is maybe slowing my digestion and increasing serotonin because of that. I tried having several carrots the next day and that seemed to help.
 

olive

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Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
555
Eating according to the randle cycle isn’t a new idea. It’s been the diet of choice for bodybuilders for the last decade, it’s just known under a different name - the seperation diet. It works, unequivocally for fat loss and there’s thousands of testimonials online to prove it. Here’s what my body looks like eating over 4500 calories a day but keeping carb and fat intake seperate. Nothing more than eating well, sleeping well and some basic calisthenic exercises in the sun once or twice a week.
 

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nbznj

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Yeah and that’s with anabolic steroids into the mix ;)

Hello,

I read this and it occurred to me that I can not think of one culture, ancient or otherwise, that only eats carbs alone or only eats fats and proteins alone. And yet we are all still here... whole societies in fact, who are recklessly mixing macros together in haphazard yet delicious ways are mostly thriving. Is this a food hygiene philosophy that you are basing your opinions on? I’m just wondering if you could point to any society or group of people that observe these dietary rules and have demonstrated extraordinary health as a result because honestly I can’t think of any.

Virtually every non westernized society besides those leaving in extreme conditions (with the highest TDEE = requiring fat for calories) follow a low fat diet. So even though they’re mixing fats and carbs, they’ve got a highly nutritious carbohydrate based diet.
 

Dissonance

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
10
A lot of people who are here have long standing health problems they are trying to address with improved dietary choices. It is often the case that when an individual starts to recover from an illness they gain weight. This can happen regardless of the nutritious foods consumed...it could happen on a Peat inspired diet or not. This phenomenon that was well established in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. Weight gain can be part of the healing process and is not necessarily a bad thing. When the body is healed, weight normalizes. Also, someone here on the forum conducted a little experiment separating carbs from fat and, as I recall, found no benefit at all.

I understand the argument in favor of separating carbs and fat, but in practice humankind has NEVER eaten that way so I suspect that after millennia of consuming which ever foods were available, our bodies have learned to manage multiple macros at once.

Interesting... maybe it’s just the REALLY high fat things I’m reacting to so negatively, with no connection to the sugar content. Ice cream makes me feel awful, but it could just by my liver crying out for help due to all that heavy cream lol. I agree that humans would have never deliberately split macros in the past, but I guess I just got caught up on the idea that glucose digestion halts fatty acid digestion.
 

Dissonance

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
10
I dont know what you are getting at, but glucose and fatty acids are always in the blood stream at any given time. They both provide energy to the body. There is nothing wrong with carbs and fat in a meal. Of course, ones diet should be mostly carbs for energy but saying fat with carbs in a meal together is bad for you is just plain wrong. It doesnt make digestion worse, if anything fat helps digestion, Peat has stated this and I myself have personal experience with this. I get incredibly smooth digestion when I have meals that are high in carbs, good amounts of protein, then some fats there, fats being the lowest quantity. The problem is many people here overeat on fat as soon as they found out saturated fats are good for them and carbs + fat cause weight gain. Its easy to over eat fat with sugars. Thats how desserts work.

Weak digestion is low T3, not because you are eating carbs and fat together, or wrong food combining or whatever you seem to think. T3 directly increases stomach acid production and sufficient stomach acid is what is responsible for good digestion.

Carbs only meals is number one dumb dumb way to increase serotonin. This is literally Peat 101. Carbs alone will increase serotonin as tryptophan is left in the bloodstream with no competing AAs as they all get shuttled off by insulin. This happens when we have insulin increasing from a meal that does not contain protein

You should eat protein in every meal. Protein is literally the most important macronutrient full stop. Every inch of us is literally made of protein for god's sake. Our brain operates because of neurotransmitters which are derived from amino acids. Acetylcholine needs choline which is mostly derived dietarily from proteins. Without raw material(protein) nothing works. Brain function dwindles without sufficient AAs for neurotransmitters. Organs shrink, muscles shrink, immune system turns to goo, hormone production plummets. Proteins are needed as transporters to move things around. They are needed for enzymes. There is literally no process that doesn't involve amino acids one way or another.

Every time you eat you should have protein. Its protein that keeps our organs, especially liver, functioning. I never understood this anti-protein nonsense. You have ketoers and high carb folk, the only thing they have in common is protein. Protein is the limiting factor in regeneration and repair. The western world has many who are chronically protein deficient thanks to our governments saying we need like what 50-60g a day for the average person? The last thing anyone should be doing is avoiding proteins or eating proteins only at specific times. Your body doesnt need protein once or twice a day when you eat only protein and fat. It needs protein constantly, more so then any other macro. You wonder why we have so many men walking around with toothpick arms and not an ounce of muscle which indicates terrible hormonal status, liver disease, NAFLD, mental illness, hypothyroidism on the rise.

Food combining ideas are dumb on their own, but the fact that indirectly one ends up avoiding protein at times because it doesnt mix with carbs is literally the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

Fatty liver isnt caused by icecream or any food similar to it, its caused by low protein intake as protein is needed for the liver to detox and low protein always translates to low intake of lipotropics, namely cysteine, methionine, and choline.
I think I just need to go lower fat in general, and up protein. I definitely was eating to much fat at first, as I was transition from high-fat/low-carb and had a bit of an adjustment periods. I had pain after eating protein when I was more “carnivore”, but all the fruit I’m eating may assist in digestion now. I’ll try upping my protein! Honestly wasn’t sure if that would help, or increase the pressure on my digestion. I know peat argues against muscle meats, but that seems to be the easiest way for me to get my protein in, I guess I should invest in gelatin to balance it out?

You’re a wealth of knowledge, thank you!
 

OceanSpray

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I don’t know why Haagen Dazs has such good rep in this forum, but here in Europe I havent been able to find a single kind that wouldn’t have either vegetable or soy oil, soy lecithin, wheat flour (!) or corn sirup in it. Seems like a regular run of the the mill industrial garbage ice cream to me.

I have seen very clean looking labels of the ice cream sold in the US on google, but I’m having a hard time believing they would sell a clean product in the US and an utter garbage in Germany or France.

Could it be that the US labels just lie? I mean from what I’ve gathered, consumer protection is a joke in the US, so perhaps they can lie.
 
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cyclops

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I was reading about this earlier actually! I don’t experience all those symptoms but definitely feel “off” eating ice cream. Turns out is goes back to the Randle Cycle and how it’s best to eat carbs on the own and fats on their own for the most part (a little bit of overlap won’t kill ya. I’m new, so I can’t post links but the thread titled “Food Combinations- sugar, fat” is really good. Here is an excellent answer by the user macaroot:

“t amazes me, for as brilliant as Ray Peat is in some regards, he doesn't seem to grasp how the human digestive system really works and processes food.

Many of you are failing on this diet. In fact, most of you are. Let's call a spade a spade. Why? Because you're eating highly unusual food combinations, which do not agree with the human digestive system.

I saw a recent video of Ray Peat fanboy Danny Roddy. He was terribly jaundiced in the video. I'm surprised he posted it. He has clear indications of a liver disorder. And it's absolutely due to his diet.

I'm sorry. I don't care how "hypo metabolic" drinking a coke with liver cooked in butter is. It's a horrendous combination that your digestive system cannot handle.

When sugar and fat are in the bloodstream at the same time, it is DISASTROUS. Nothing breaks the body down more quickly, in fact.

Carbohydrates were meant to be eaten alone. And proteins and fats were meant to be eaten together. This is how you digest food and drink properly.

You can get away with such combinations as milk with fruit, but it has to be fat free milk. Ditto goes for coffee with milk and sugar. It's a healthy beverage when it's fat free milk. It's REALLY bad when you use whole milk or even 2%. Fruit and cheese is a bad mixture. Wine and cheese is ok, because alcohol thins the blood and somewhat negates the negative effect of the fat/sugar combo.

Ice cream is not healthy any way you spin it. I'm sorry. It's not, unless fat free or low fat. Some of you may claim better sleep from it, which is great. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an unhealthy combo, which will inevitably lead to fatty liver conditions and stomach disorders.

Coconut oil can be healthy. But in the absence of sugar. It's not as bad with starches because starches take longer to digest. But sugar and coconut oil? Forget it.

Ray Peat seems blind to this pretty common knowledge. I love Ray Peat, don't get me wrong. His work is profound and groundbreaking. He just seems to have no clue how digestion really works.

He knows what foods are best to eat, but not the manner in which they should be eaten.

Saying you should eat protein at every meal is irresponsible. To "balance blood sugar" is the claim. If he had any idea how the digestive system worked, he would realize it's not that cut and dry. Nothing will spike your blood sugar worse, and elevate your liver enzymes more quickly than poorly digested meals.

Eat carbs with fat free sources and low protein.
Eat proteins and fats together.
Starches can be mixed with proteins ok.
Coffee with fat free milk and sugar, great beverage.

Oh, while I'm at it, get off the whole store-bought orange juice thing. Bottled orange juice is HORRIBLE for you. I don't know one person alive who digests it correctly. It's full of toxins, acids, enzyme inhibitors, and digestive irritants. Leave it alone. ONLY drink fresh squeezed orange juice. You're in trouble if you reach for Tropicana. That stuff is poison.”

Yeah but if you need to eat carbs with every meal, and I think we probably should, that means you're going to be mixing carbs with protein and fat at some point.

I don't want to just eat protein + fat meals. I need carbs like Ray says.

Also there are some better brands of bottled OJ that don't contain all that nasty stuff. They can be organic and are just lightly pasteurized.
 

cyclops

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Eating according to the randle cycle isn’t a new idea. It’s been the diet of choice for bodybuilders for the last decade, it’s just known under a different name - the seperation diet. It works, unequivocally for fat loss and there’s thousands of testimonials online to prove it. Here’s what my body looks like eating over 4500 calories a day but keeping carb and fat intake seperate. Nothing more than eating well, sleeping well and some basic calisthenic exercises in the sun once or twice a week.

<---Jelly
 
T

TheBeard

Guest
Yeah and that’s with anabolic steroids into the mix ;)

Not necessarily, it’s a good physique, but very well attainable natty if he does sleep and eat correctly.

Nothing out of the ordinary here.
 

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