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The only pharma antibiotic you tried was augmentin?
Once when I had an eyelid infection( caused by fish oil), the doctor prescribed me an antibiotic for it( I think it was neomycin, not 100% sure though), but I didn't really take consistently. My health was awful back then, and I had no idea what I was doing. Other than that, I don't recall ever using any other antibiotics. Not even penicillin.
 
T

TheBeard

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Once when I had an eyelid infection( caused by fish oil), the doctor prescribed me an antibiotic for it( I think it was neomycin, not 100% sure though), but I didn't really take consistently. My health was awful back then, and I had no idea what I was doing. Other than that, I don't recall ever using any other antibiotics. Not even penicillin.

Thanks.

I think most people having issues consecutive to antibiotics use are those who don't address motility at the same time.
After killing that much bacteria, if you don't flush them, they are going to stick around dead and release toxins.
I always finish a round of antibiotics with extensive Epsom salt use to induce diarrhea.
 
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Thanks.

I think most people having issues consecutive to antibiotics use are those who don't address motility at the same time.
After killing that much bacteria, if you don't flush them, they are going to stick around dead and release toxins.
I always finish a round of antibiotics with extensive Epsom salt use to induce diarrhea.
Oh yeah, being even slightly constipated while taking a bunch of antibiotics seems like a terrible situation. Endotoxin for days. Do you think Epsom salt is special, or any other magnesium form will do, as long as it causes diarrhea? I'll make sure to pay attention to that.

When you were taking antibiotics, did you have them with fiber? I was thinking what would be the best way to go about this. I usually only have fiber in one meal currently( from dates, which I surprisingly tolerate better than any other fruit). Do you think it's better to have some fiber to carry the antibiotics further into the gut, instead of it potentially being well absorbed in the small intestine?
 
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TheBeard

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Oh yeah, being even slightly constipated while taking a bunch of antibiotics seems like a terrible situation. Endotoxin for days. Do you think Epsom salt is special, or any other magnesium form will do, as long as it causes diarrhea? I'll make sure to pay attention to that.

When you were taking antibiotics, did you have them with fiber? I was thinking what would be the best way to go about this. I usually only have fiber in one meal currently( from dates, which I surprisingly tolerate better than any other fruit). Do you think it's better to have some fiber to carry the antibiotics further into the gut, instead of it potentially being well absorbed in the small intestine?

The common prescription to consume food with antibiotics is usually to increase systemic absorption for issues other than in the gut.
I wonder whether in our particular case taking them on an empty stomach allows them to work better where we want them: in the gut
 
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The common prescription to consume food with antibiotics is usually to increase systemic absorption for issues other than in the gut.
I wonder whether in our particular case taking them on an empty stomach allows them to work better where we want them: in the gut
I think that's one solution. I'm only wary about taking it on an empty stomach because I heard some people on the forum got a stomachache after using doxycycline without enough fluid.

Perhaps when they recommend taking it with food, they mean stuff like starch and meat, not something like a ton of raw carrots. Ray says to not eat the carrot with food because it steals nutrients from the meal, I was kinda hoping it would do the same with the antibiotics.
 

johnwester130

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"...Probiotic use can result in a significant accumulation of bacteria in the small intestine that can result in disorienting brain fogginess as well as rapid, significant belly bloating, investigators report. In a published study of 38 patients, the 30 who reported problems like confusion and difficulty concentrating, in addition to their gas and bloating, were all taking probiotics, some several varieties. When investigators looked further, they found large colonies of bacteria breeding in the patients’ small intestines, and high levels of D-lactic acid being produced by the bacteria lactobacillus’ fermentation of sugars in their food, says Dr. Satish S.C. Rao, director of neurogastroenterology/motility and the Digestive Health Clinical Research Center at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University. D-lactic acid is known to be temporarily toxic to brain cells, interfering with cognition, thinking and sense of time. They found some patients had two to three times the normal amount of D-lactic acid in their blood. Some said their brain fogginess – which lasted from a half hour to many hours after eating – was so severe that they had to quit their jobs."

I am one of those people who lost a job due to brain fog.

This is the worst illness ever.
 

InChristAlone

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"...Probiotic use can result in a significant accumulation of bacteria in the small intestine that can result in disorienting brain fogginess as well as rapid, significant belly bloating, investigators report. In a published study of 38 patients, the 30 who reported problems like confusion and difficulty concentrating, in addition to their gas and bloating, were all taking probiotics, some several varieties. When investigators looked further, they found large colonies of bacteria breeding in the patients’ small intestines, and high levels of D-lactic acid being produced by the bacteria lactobacillus’ fermentation of sugars in their food, says Dr. Satish S.C. Rao, director of neurogastroenterology/motility and the Digestive Health Clinical Research Center at the Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University. D-lactic acid is known to be temporarily toxic to brain cells, interfering with cognition, thinking and sense of time. They found some patients had two to three times the normal amount of D-lactic acid in their blood. Some said their brain fogginess – which lasted from a half hour to many hours after eating – was so severe that they had to quit their jobs."

I am one of those people who lost a job due to brain fog.

This is the worst illness ever.
Everything needs to flow... work on your ileocecal valve, if it's stuck open you will have SIBO. Massage it.
 

lvysaur

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@haidut I wanted to get your opinion about occasional probiotics.

I agree that eating probiotics/fermented foods chronically is a bad idea--just too much bacteria and lactic acid.

But wouldn't it be the case that occasional probiotic consumption might be helpful? Let's say you take a probiotic pill once a month. It should theoretically "seed" in some "acceptable" bacteria, which then prevent "very bad" bacteria from growing.

I don't think the issue is that probiotics are bad per se, but rather that inappropriate use of probiotics is bad. Sterility > "good" bacteria > "bad" bacteria. People read too much popscience so they think "good bacteria, more = good", which causes problems. But small amounts of "good" germs > small amounts of "bad" germs, I would think.
 

Amazoniac

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Perry Staltic

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The guy who authored the study mentioned in the first post worked for the pharmaceutical industry that wants to restrict probiotics to prescription only. I looked at the companies he's worked for and one manufactures a patented drug for IBS; in fact it's their only product, so there you go. I read his study and had to stop because he was so uninformed about some things, like saying bfidobacterium produce D-lactate, which is false.

Some probiotics produce only, or mostly, acetate or L-lactate which the body can easily metabolize. The body doesn't produce an enzyme to metabolize D-lactate, like it does for L-lactate, so it takes longer to metabolize via an alternate mechanism, and consequently it can build up causing varying degrees of acidosis.

As an experiment based on the concepts that L-lactate and acetate producing bacteria compete with D-lactate producing bacteria for limited gut resources and niches, and that some produce natural antibiotics as well as other benefits, I'm currently loading my system with about 10 different varieties of L-lactate and acetate producing probiotics, while avoiding as much as I can any D-lactate producers like acidophilus (which is in very many supplements and yogurts). If anyone's interested I'll list what they are. So far so good. Extremely peaceful gut with less gas and much less offending smell, even after eating beans.

Apparently lots of people with autism and ME/CFS have had great success following this regime of supplementing with non-D-lactate probiotics, and only by following it (and limiting some foods).
 
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Perry Staltic

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The guy who authored the study mentioned in the first post worked for the pharmaceutical industry that wants to restrict probiotics to prescription only. I looked at the companies he's worked for and one manufactures a patented drug for IBS; in fact it's their only product, so there you go. I read his study and had to stop because he was so uninformed about some things, like saying bfidobacterium produce D-lactate, which is false.

Dr Rao, the primary author of the study, worked for Salix Pharmaceuticals, Ironwood Pharmaceuticals and Forest Laboratories, which all produce and/or market gastrointestinal drugs (that's all the first two manufacture).
 

Risingfire

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This makes perfect sense. I was losing weight relatively easily on 2 grains of cynoplus a day split. I took an oral spore probiotic that supposedly would reduce endotoxin by 42%. I ended up gaining weight and the thyroid become inept. I couldn't sleep all night either. This was back in October. I'm finally back on track with losing weight. Quite the price to pay.
 

Jayvee

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I've been considering a non d-lactate strain. Antibiotics were far from helpful for me and now I seem to have a gut that makes me breathless after eating. My transit is slow though, do you think taking D-lactate free probiotics are safe with a slow transit? I dont want to colonise my upper intestine. Any help would be great.
 

Matestube

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I've been considering a non d-lactate strain. Antibiotics were far from helpful for me and now I seem to have a gut that makes me breathless after eating. My transit is slow though, do you think taking D-lactate free probiotics are safe with a slow transit? I dont want to colonise my upper intestine. Any help would be great.
I've tried ALL probiotic strains, including all the fancy soil ones, none one of them improved my situation. I think the only cure is eating veggies straight from the ground with dirt still on them, no commercial formulation made in a lab will cure you.
 

Jayvee

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I am very sceptical of probiotics and even antibiotics from everything I have read and experienced. Do you mean raw vegetables then? If so are you selecting any particular ones? I'm trying to deal with antibiotic recovery so not sure if digestion can handle this.
 

Lollipop2

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I am very sceptical of probiotics and even antibiotics from everything I have read and experienced. Do you mean raw vegetables then? If so are you selecting any particular ones? I'm trying to deal with antibiotic recovery so not sure if digestion can handle this.
What about drinkable yoghurt without a lactic strain? We have a local one that is good. Should help your GI. Try soft foods for a while like milk, apple sauce, drinkable yoghurt, eggs, etc.
 

Jayvee

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What about drinkable yoghurt without a lactic strain? We have a local one that is good. Should help your GI. Try soft foods for a while like milk, apple sauce, drinkable yoghurt, eggs, etc.

I considered exactly that but not sure if there is any danger of bacteria then growing in the small intestine. My digestion is slower since antibiotics.
 

Gûs80

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If it increases those counts in the gut, as opposed to the small intestine, then it is OK. The problem starts when this type of bacteria colonizes the small intestine resulting in the condition SIBO. The small intestine should be clear of bacteria, and less bacteria in the colon is also good but hard to achieve.
Could enemas help with an antibiotic cycle? Maybe with coconut oil or baking soda...

Are there any probiotics that Dr Ray recommends after a course of antibiotics?
 

moa

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I do seem to have some histamine or mast cell activation like symptoms.

In my past experience, taking Lactobacillus rhamnossus GG after antibiotic use for a few days or weeks was ok, but for some reason i haven't felt any reason to take it after that.

I've used also bifido infantis many times, including from supplements and cultivating it in 1 litter of home made "yogurt", only with this strain. So both supplements and massive culture in milk didn't produce any side effects.

i don't take it often, cause, while it has proven completely harmless for me, i also didn't felt that much of a benefit in the long term.

i wouldn't recommend long term use of the other probiotics blends, usually sold in commerce, excepting in case of food poisoning

On the contrary, bacillus coagulans, a spore based that enhances other good bacteria and don't activate before reaching colon. it hasn't produced any side effects in it's long term use of 2 years almost daily, and i feel like it really does induce a real shift in microbiome, after 3 or 4 weeks of taking it daily, and then long term is helping too.
 

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